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06-27-2019, 09:29 AM | #1 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: I teared Joe Rogan a new one
Posts: 1,427
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Is MCIS era awesome or Billy’s self-indulgent bullshit embodied?
I’m serious. I’m really starting to wonder.
When I was younger MCIS seemed cool because it was my first exposure to alternative culture but the older I get the more his two hours of whiny singing about “porcelina,” “stumbleine,” and other nonsense seems like it was just an early warning sign of his excessively tasteless Oceania and Teargarden period tempered only by having cool people in the room (flood, D’Arcy, James) to rein him in. Fight me. |
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06-27-2019, 09:50 AM | #2 |
Braindead
Posts: 18,608
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MCIS was Billy's self-indulgent bullshit somehow gradually but eventually becoming perfectly but briefly in tune with the zeitgeist (no pun intended) of the youth culture at that period of time, and then gradually fading away in his all-enveloping presence in the youth culture in the next period of time
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06-27-2019, 09:50 AM | #3 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: up on the cross you go little fella
Posts: 2,676
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ok
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06-27-2019, 10:03 AM | #4 |
charm
Location: Naarm, Wurundjeri, Woiwurrung, Kulin Nations
Posts: 2,222
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there was some crap that got released for sure, but the quality of the b-sides from tafh alone locks in this as overall an awesome era.
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06-27-2019, 10:06 AM | #5 |
real estate cowboy
Location: if Monsanto and Purdue Pharma had a baby
Posts: 36,902
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Both at once
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06-27-2019, 11:00 AM | #6 |
spanish harlem mona lisa
Location: the barrio
Posts: 10,081
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Yeah, both.
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06-27-2019, 11:06 AM | #7 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 2,142
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It didn't matter because the songs, the band, and the packaging of pretty much everything from 1991 - 1998, and arguably to 2000, was spot on. So he could get away with the "nonsense" as he had the music and melody to back it up. That and a cool band.
I was always a sucker for those one word titles, very cool in the 90s. I remember writing my own songs at that time and having all the titles before I wrote the actual songs. :-) Oceania and Teargarden has tried to tap into that aesthetic, but I'm not sure it really works as it wasn't backed up with great songwriting (with some exceptions) or a cool band (SP was basically Billy + session musicians). So either forego that approach and lose the old fans, or keep doing it and be accused of "not moving on". I genuinely think Billy really does want to move on and have his new music accepted for what it is; it must be so hard to be chained to the past like that. Imagine you had done something you just did naturally about 25 years ago, and to this day people are still getting you to do it - you'd want to just move on from it, right? Much as I'd love it to be the way it was, it won't be anymore. |
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06-27-2019, 12:35 PM | #8 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,612
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there's nothing stopping him from moving on. he can't have it both ways, but he acts like he can.
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06-27-2019, 12:49 PM | #9 |
Socialphobic
Location: Your god damn living room
Posts: 10,000
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he was self-indulgent but for a "greater good"
writing songs that actually moved people and singing/performing in a way that really connected, often times with lyrics that were almost embarrassingly personal which took it up to even another notch now he doesn't do any of that and is simply indulgent while also caring way too much about some pre-imposed "modern standards" regarding how all albums should sound, how long they should be, what kind of songs need to be on them, etc etc so yeah, i'll take that MCIS style of indulgence any day |
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06-27-2019, 03:09 PM | #10 | |
Demi-God
Location: Where the willows weep and the whirpools sleep you'll find me.
Posts: 341
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It was self-indulgent, but good self-indulgence, like when you eat all of your birthday cake in one go.
SP2 is self-indulgent too, but not good self-indulgence; like when you shove four bags of crystal meth up your ass and snort coke while engaged in an orgy with under-age transvestites in a seedy motel as your harlem of wives videotape for posterity and pop poppers, not knowing that the cops are parked in the driveway and can see exactly what's going on through the flimsy curtains, leading to your arrest and eventual sexual violation in the slammer at the hands of a group of tattooed, homosexual Venezuelan gang members who simply hate sissy boys and, I quote,"don't take no shit". Quote:
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06-27-2019, 04:57 PM | #11 |
Ownz
Location: trees and balloons
Posts: 562
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yeah i agree.
as some have already said in the thread, i think it probably hit a note with the youth of the time - for a short moment though, because it seems like within two years it was very uncool to like the pumpkins, and even more with time, until the legacy of the era just turned into a couple of big hits. i don't really listen to SP anymore, but if i do, it's definitely not mcis. i don't think it aged that well honestly, and over the years i came to realise that it's just too many songs, moreso it kind of embodies that very cringy corgan grandiousness and over-the-topness of singing about nonsensical imaginary girls and angsty bullshit, which, in the light of his work and persona of the last 10 years, makes it age ever worse. it was a very bold move at the time to make such an album, but the success of it really boomeranged back into his head with every album he made onwards. just to clarify, mcis has some great songs musically, and some that are great all round, that is when he isn't going too far off in his lyrical wankery (e.g muzzle), but i just don't find it as good as i once did. |
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06-27-2019, 05:45 PM | #12 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: luna
Posts: 2,721
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I think that when it worked it was spot on (Jellybelly, Muzzle, Porcelina, Galapogos, Bodies) but some of it hasn't aged well at all (WOCOAT, Beautiful, Ode to no one). It also has some pretty solid non-grandiose tracks like Love, 33, and 1979, which help make it more digestible.
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06-27-2019, 06:04 PM | #13 |
Socialphobic
Location: Your god damn living room
Posts: 10,000
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"Ode to No One hasn't aged well"
don't call us, we'll call you! |
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06-27-2019, 07:02 PM | #14 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: luna
Posts: 2,721
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06-27-2019, 08:07 PM | #15 |
Demi-God
Location: The Past, Future, and Present
Posts: 388
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might be another unpopular opinion, but i feel like most of the b-sides from that era are solely better than most of the stuff on mcis itself
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06-27-2019, 08:48 PM | #16 |
Consume my pants.
Location: Missouri
Posts: 36,099
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The only MCIS song that is trash is Take Me Down. Though it did take me a long time to warm up to Love.
The rest, I still love. |
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06-27-2019, 09:07 PM | #17 |
Minion of Satan
Location: breakfast
Posts: 6,174
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That makes total sense, because they’re so much less produced than the album tracks. They’re closer to raw band or solo takes, and there’s more variety, imperfection, and honesty.
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06-27-2019, 09:17 PM | #18 |
FKA Siamese33
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 5,353
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WOCOAT is fucking great...in fact, I think I love it more now than I did in the 90s.
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06-27-2019, 10:01 PM | #19 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: An oasis of horror in a desert of boredom
Posts: 7,747
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Quote:
Like recently my dad was being a bigger cockhole than usual and i put on mcis and when it got to f u an ode omg i was headbangin snarlin along like i was teenaged again Even as a full grown middle aged man with kids and a fat belly/ass, i continue to rely on the more aggressive trax like this to get it out sometimes |
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06-28-2019, 07:33 AM | #20 | |
Demi-God
Location: The Past, Future, and Present
Posts: 388
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Quote:
i wonder instead of releasing TAFH, they couldve streched some of that material into another album or two, but with billys life events at the time i kinda doubt it would've happened |
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06-28-2019, 08:29 AM | #21 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: luna
Posts: 2,721
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Quote:
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06-28-2019, 08:52 AM | #22 |
charm
Location: Naarm, Wurundjeri, Woiwurrung, Kulin Nations
Posts: 2,222
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06-28-2019, 09:00 AM | #23 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: Donald Trump of Netphoria
Posts: 37,218
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Overindulgent? GTFO!!!!
I've said it again and I'll say it before: MICS should of been a seven disc album. Yeah, that's right. Seven. Fatherfucking. Discs. 1 & 2 MCIS 3 & 4 TAFH B-sides 5 & 6 Gravity Demos fully realized. 7 Live Ultimate Silverfuck. (73.8 minutes long) |
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06-28-2019, 09:20 AM | #24 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 2,142
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06-28-2019, 11:12 AM | #25 | |
Socialphobic
Location: Your god damn living room
Posts: 10,000
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Quote:
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06-28-2019, 12:53 PM | #26 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: An oasis of horror in a desert of boredom
Posts: 7,747
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Quote:
Can’t believe y’all dare to question the everlasting majesty of MCIS, what in the everloving fuck |
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06-28-2019, 12:57 PM | #27 | |
charm
Location: Naarm, Wurundjeri, Woiwurrung, Kulin Nations
Posts: 2,222
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Quote:
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06-28-2019, 01:42 PM | #28 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: Donald Trump of Netphoria
Posts: 37,218
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That's what you think.
Actually the members of Boris wrote everything from the MCIS era around 1993. |
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06-28-2019, 02:44 PM | #29 | ||
dumb
Location: $8.6 million embezzled funds
Posts: 11,367
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Quote:
A while back, for a few weeks I basically had that whole thing on loop constantly. So many great little riffs. It's like SP without worrying about what the lyrics mean Quote:
never be the shine in your SPITspitspit i need you baby cause i want you badly I LOVE YOU I LOVE YOU MADLY THERE'S NOTHING I WANT MOARE also i'm 22 so i'm a cringy dumbass constantly. [for evidence, read any of my old posts] |
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06-28-2019, 08:18 PM | #30 |
Demi-God
Location: The Past, Future, and Present
Posts: 388
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those machina tours were some of the best shows, right up there w/ siamese era.
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