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Old 02-07-2016, 05:45 PM   #31
fuzzyroes
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I never did get into the Smiths. I tried. I liked the guitars and the mellowness... but they never really clicked.
Yeah same here. Everyone was sure I'd love em too.

I absolutely love "Ask" though. Hearing that song for the fist time was almost worth plowing through their discography

 
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Old 02-07-2016, 05:46 PM   #32
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It is true that gibberish lyrics on a good song are fine

But outright dumb lyrics will make an otherwise good song unlistenable for me
Yeah that's true for the most part. I mean a song like SP's god and country is otherwise pretty cool but the cornball preachy lyrics were just a deal breaker for me.

 
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Old 02-07-2016, 06:19 PM   #33
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I like Morrisey enough. Guys a good poet and he's got his own kinda unique sing-speak style thing going on. But musically and dynamically It's not exactly something that's really all that exciting.

Maybe it's just another case of them being an innovative band that so many other groups built upon in a better more exciting way.

But really, who really cares about a singers persona? I couldn't care less about that kinda shit. I mean hell, I'm a fan of Billy Corgan and Axl Rose for crying out loud- probably 2 of the most unlikable guys in rock
It's interesting and unique because he's doing a punk version of being a pop singer

 
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Old 02-07-2016, 07:53 PM   #34
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Theres really nothing inherently punk about Morrisey... Unless you're meaning that anything new and original classifies as "punk".

 
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Old 02-07-2016, 09:55 PM   #35
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Punk is not a haircut

 
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Old 02-08-2016, 06:33 PM   #36
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punks a sound foo... The Smiths ain't punk

 
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Old 02-08-2016, 07:01 PM   #37
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Theres really nothing inherently punk about Morrisey... Unless you're meaning that anything new and original classifies as "punk".
the Smiths sound is like an amalgam of punk/post-punk and 60s jangle pop

 
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Old 02-08-2016, 07:03 PM   #38
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god damn they are so good. Listening to the Smiths just transports you to another world. A dreary, grey, English, Margaret Thatcher world.

 
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Old 02-08-2016, 07:04 PM   #39
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"there's a club if you'd like to go,
you could meet somebody who really loves you"
so I go and I stand on my own
and I leave on my own
and I go home and I cry and I want to die

 
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Old 02-08-2016, 07:10 PM   #40
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I hear some similarities between The Smiths and '80s post-punk bands, but I usually hear them lumped in the "alternative rock" category (of which they are considered a seminal band), rather than in the post-punk category. In the end, it doesn't really matter. Genres are just kind of whatevs

What we should be discussing, however, is the real punk of NOFX, Greenday, and Blink-182.

 
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Old 02-08-2016, 07:22 PM   #41
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I hear some similarities between The Smiths and '80s post-punk bands, but I usually hear them lumped in the "alternative rock" category (of which they are considered a seminal band), rather than in the post-punk category. In the end, it doesn't really matter. Genres are just kind of whatevs

What we should be discussing, however, is the real punk of NOFX, Greenday, and Blink-182.
that's interesting, I always think of alt rock as being an American movement first. I would cite R.E.M. perhaps as the first major alternative band. The Smiths feel like they belong to a different movement, although there are some noteworthy similarities between the music of these two bands.

 
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Old 02-08-2016, 07:36 PM   #42
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Fuck, I used to like the Smiths you guys why do we have to do this to everything.....

 
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:09 PM   #43
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analyze bands?

 
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:26 PM   #44
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Yes in that way that's like "is it punk," was it "revolutionary," or "just influential"

I'd rather hear foolofatook's descriptions, personally

 
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:45 PM   #45
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Like how about actual emotions the music provokes in you. Or let's have fun trying to describe in physical terms how the sounds strike us or visual what they conjure in the mind's eye.

These rock n roll history lessons from people who clearly weren't even there...dunno man, for me it's just so fucking tiresome

 
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Old 02-08-2016, 09:29 PM   #46
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It shouldn't be. While I certainly wasn't there this stuff didn't happen that long ago and is very well documented and is imo super interesting stuff to read about.

The Smiths, like other bands that formed the Jangle Pop genre, were a mix of sixties girl pop and Punk/Proto Punk

Morrissey and Marr were "incurable Sandie Shaw fans" to use Moz's words

But also Moz, like a lot of post punkers, was at the first Sex Pistols shows and described being exposed to Johnny Rotten as one of the most influential experiences of his life.

On top of that you have Moz's obsession with the NY Dolls and Mike Joyce's actual background in Punk bands

 
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Old 02-08-2016, 09:32 PM   #47
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Like you had skinheads singing songs about gay sex because the music in something like Handsome Devil has such rockabilly kick to it

If that isn't punk idk what is

 
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Old 02-08-2016, 10:36 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Run To Me View Post
Yes in that way that's like "is it punk," was it "revolutionary," or "just influential"

I'd rather hear foolofatook's descriptions, personally
Quote:
Originally Posted by Run To Me View Post
Like how about actual emotions the music provokes in you. Or let's have fun trying to describe in physical terms how the sounds strike us or visual what they conjure in the mind's eye.

These rock n roll history lessons from people who clearly weren't even there...dunno man, for me it's just so fucking tiresome
I hate genre arguments because that shit is fucking stupid and arbitrary and a way for people to form insiders' clubs about fashion and not music, but if we're talking historically, I think it is very fascinating to talk different artistic movements, different scenes, to trace who was influenced by who and how different sounds evolved on a macro level. I guess I see why this is really boring to some people, but my first liberal arts instinct is to study and analyze and make arguments connecting things.

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It shouldn't be. While I certainly wasn't there this stuff didn't happen that long ago and is very well documented and is imo super interesting stuff to read about.

The Smiths, like other bands that formed the Jangle Pop genre, were a mix of sixties girl pop and Punk/Proto Punk

Morrissey and Marr were "incurable Sandie Shaw fans" to use Moz's words

But also Moz, like a lot of post punkers, was at the first Sex Pistols shows and described being exposed to Johnny Rotten as one of the most influential experiences of his life.

On top of that you have Moz's obsession with the NY Dolls and Mike Joyce's actual background in Punk bands
IIRC the rest of the band really came to resent Morrissey's 60s pop obsession. There was a big conflict they all had because Morrissey kept pulling out all these irrelevant 60s girl pop numbers he wanted the band to cover and Marr and the rest of them just had it at a certain point

 
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Old 02-09-2016, 10:28 AM   #49
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I'd rather hear foolofatook's descriptions, personally
FUCK YEAH!!!

 
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Old 02-09-2016, 10:30 AM   #50
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I bet you none of these analytical fuckers knows SHIT about quaffing chalices of dextromethorphan on the Arabian shores of the red sea while listening to dopesmoker and, a one choice moment in time, throwing a lighter into the dying ember of fire to create a small, but utterly visceral, explosion.

 
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Old 02-09-2016, 10:31 AM   #51
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it was like a fireball arising from the flames. it awoke my drowsing Russian friend into full wakefulness.

 
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Old 02-09-2016, 01:09 PM   #52
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sonic youth was my favorite for a long time... now i'm more into swans.
though if there's one guy who can convince me to buy expensive box sets, it's gotta be bob dylan.

 
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Old 02-09-2016, 05:08 PM   #53
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I've only tried Swans' first album and hated it.

 
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Old 02-09-2016, 06:22 PM   #54
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maybe try their last one instead

 
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Old 02-09-2016, 10:36 PM   #55
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I bet you none of these analytical fuckers knows SHIT about quaffing chalices of dextromethorphan on the Arabian shores of the red sea while listening to dopesmoker and, a one choice moment in time, throwing a lighter into the dying ember of fire to create a small, but utterly visceral, explosion.
I don't know what any of this means but I have seen Saudi Arabia across the Red Sea from far away. it would be a bad idea to smoke dope in saudi arabia

 
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Old 02-10-2016, 07:46 AM   #56
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Sufjan for me. Michigan, Seven Swans, Illinois, The Age of Adz and Carrie & Lowell are all amazing. The All Delighted People EP has some amazingly good songs too (the title tracks are just okay, but The Owl and The Tanager + Djohariah in particular are incredible). A lot of his Christmas songs are great. A Sun Came is uneven, but still has a few gems. The rest of his stuff (Enjoy Your Rabbit, The BQE, etc) is interesting, but I don't feel quite as strongly about it.

I think a lot of people read him "wrong" (if you can even say such a thing about art). People sometimes describe him as twee or gimmicky, but that's mostly because of his sense of humor, which serves a purpose - either as plain misdirection or as an attempt to sound less self-important. It's about finding a balance between all the human drama that consumes us and the fact that none of us is the center of the universe.

It's also easy to be suspicious of his music because a lot of it is just so pretty. Once upon a time I used to love pretty music. Then l I got tired of hearing beautiful-sounding songs and thinking I could LOVE them, only to be left feeling empty and disappointed after a few listens. What keeps me coming back to Sufjan's music is that he's an amazing writer, and underneath the surface his songs are sad and conflicted and joyful, full of pain with some impossible hope for redemption.

The Owl and the Tanager is my favorite song of his. It's the most beautiful song I've ever heard about being abused as a child by someone you trust, with all the conflicted and unresolved emotions involved in a relationship you aren't actually running away from. All you want is to love and to be loved, and the "love" you are given feels necessary and oppressive at the same time. It consumes you and leaves you weary and violated, and yet you long for some sort of respite in it, for some sense of love and safety, because you are a child and you need it and you don't know any better. It's just heartbreaking. It's direct and poetic at the same time; it never sounds like an exercise in creative writing, even though it's incredibly well-crafted; and he never ever dials it in live.

 
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Old 02-10-2016, 09:28 AM   #57
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I still find something to like in pretty much all Smashing Pumpkins stuff but other favourites I've lost interest in or they've done something to upset me. I listen to more stuff than ever, there's a lot more choice now than when I was a kid but nothing really sticks.


I was heavy into Alec Empire & Atari Teenage Riot for a long time but the ATR reunion and subsequent albums have been really lame.

Went to see them in Rome and they were on something like 5 hrs late with no opening acts. Really exhausting time, by the time they came out I couldn't really be bothered with it.

Only listened to them since when they released their 2nd new album and it was complete garbage. New SP isn't great but new ATR... eeeesh.

 
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Old 02-10-2016, 12:52 PM   #58
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I've only tried Swans' first album and hated it.
I'm with myosis here. I'd recommend checking out the last 3 starting with My Father...

My Father Will Guide Me up a Rope to the Sky (2010)
The Seer (2012)
To Be Kind (2014)

 
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Old 02-10-2016, 08:16 PM   #59
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The Owl and the Tanager is my favorite song of his. It's the most beautiful song I've ever heard about being abused as a child by someone you trust, with all the conflicted and unresolved emotions involved in a relationship you aren't actually running away from. All you want is to love and to be loved, and the "love" you are given feels necessary and oppressive at the same time. It consumes you and leaves you weary and violated, and yet you long for some sort of respite in it, for some sense of love and safety, because you are a child and you need it and you don't know any better. It's just heartbreaking. It's direct and poetic at the same time; it never sounds like an exercise in creative writing, even though it's incredibly well-crafted; and he never ever dials it in live.
I like Sufjan a lot too, but some days I just don't want to go to those places...

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I was heavy into Alec Empire & Atari Teenage Riot for a long time but the ATR reunion and subsequent albums have been really lame.
I used to consider Alec Empire a hero, but yeah, the reunion is pretty bad...

 
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Old 02-12-2016, 10:35 AM   #60
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I don't know what any of this means but I have seen Saudi Arabia across the Red Sea from far away. it would be a bad idea to smoke dope in saudi arabia
I was on dxm. Hash is everywhere tho. I was just unable to find due to the brevity of my stay in that kingdom of theirs.

 
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