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Old 01-05-2013, 10:28 AM   #1
D.
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Default Dude from Cracker and Camper Van Beethoven writes response to victimless file-sharing

Apparently this isn't new but i just saw it so it's new to me.

Original NPR post about not paying for music: http://www.npr.org/blogs/allsongs/20...-to-begin-with


David Lowery's response: http://thetrichordist.com/2012/06/18...gs-considered/

 
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:47 AM   #2
MusicMan4
 
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by D. View Post
my response: take care man, we'll see ya

 
Old 01-05-2013, 12:01 PM   #3
D.
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P.S. just something to think about.

 
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:18 PM   #4
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i mean he is a bit of a cheap shot artist
blaming vic chesnutt and mark linkous' suicide on downloading is ridiculous

 
Old 01-05-2013, 12:42 PM   #5
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He certainly went into it with guns blazing.

 
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:08 PM   #6
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The original post is a little weird. First she mentions some dude who deleted all music from his hard drive and began to use cloud-based services. Then she goes on to say she doesn't get it because she's never owned CDs in the first place. But the guy didn't delete his physical CDs, he deleted his FLACs, or MP3s or AACs, or whatever it was that he had.

As for the response, quite frankly, it's reactionary crap. The guy doesn't want to lose his job (if I were him, I wouldn't want to lose it either), so his "morality" springs from that. The truth is that the "recording artist" is a very recent phenomenon - copyright is also a new invention - but art has existed and flourished for thousands of years. Of course, you may argue that this isn't about art, it's about the artist. I generally agree that it's important to safeguard people's livelihoods, except that here the costs are too high.

One of the greatest tragedies of our current model is that it reinforces the myth of individuality, the myth of the romantic genius, who is supposedly a self-made man and deserves riches and fame. I suspect this is why people are a lot less resistant to change in other professional fields; they maybe express regret when a profession is made redundant by new technological advances, but I don't see people advocating regulations to ensure that, say, video store owners (as opposed to legal, online distributors) stay in business. But an artist is apparently special, so we can't let them suffer the indignity of having to find another job.

And when it comes to the argument that we'll see a drop in quality, well, they are full of shit. Sure, big productions might be more difficult to finance, but a free culture where we can copy, adapt and modify other people's work has the potential to create awesomely interesting things. Some of the greatest masterpieces in the past were created that way, over generations by many faceless artists. When you give up the idea that someone can "own" an idea, that the author has any special authority over their own creations, you can change them a little bit, improve whatever you don't like, and among the resulting aberrations, you might find something that actually surpasses the "original". You have to be really full of yourself not to see how amazing the possibilities are.

 
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:17 PM   #7
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Quote:
Shortly before Christmas 2009, Vic took his life. He was my neighbor, and I was there as they put him in the ambulance. On March 6th, 2010, Mark Linkous shot himself in the heart. Anybody who knew either of these musicians will tell you that the pair suffered depression. They will also tell you their situation was worsened by their financial situation. Vic was deeply in debt to hospitals and, at the time, was publicly complaining about losing his home. Mark was living in abject squalor in his remote studio in the Smokey Mountains without adequate access to the mental health care he so desperately needed.
This in particular - he should be campaigning for universal health care and welfare programs, not draconian copyright laws.

 
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Old 01-05-2013, 05:05 PM   #8
soniclovenoize
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rairun View Post
Some of the greatest masterpieces in the past were created that way, over generations by many faceless artists. When you give up the idea that someone can "own" an idea, that the author has any special authority over their own creations, you can change them a little bit, improve whatever you don't like, and among the resulting aberrations, you might find something that actually surpasses the "original".
Can you give some examples of this please?

Thanks.

 
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:24 PM   #9
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Beowulf
The Iliad
The Epic of Gilgamesh
Hundreds of songs from different folk traditions

 
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:34 PM   #10
soniclovenoize
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rairun View Post
Beowulf
The Iliad
The Epic of Gilgamesh
Hundreds of songs from different folk traditions
But those works were products of those societies and cultures they were a part of. You are admiring them as art as an afterthought, removing them from their social context.

So thus by your logic, our society should revert back to a pre-Industrial feudal state? I mean you are talking about advancing our society, but cite folklore as an example.

 
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:45 PM   #11
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shut up sonic

 
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:19 PM   #12
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OK ;_;

 
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:53 AM   #13
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doesn't the guy from cracker / cvb have a built in fanbase he tours nationally on all the time?

this is like billy corgan complaining that someone downloaded a zeitgeist bonus track instead of buying the album

 
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:21 PM   #14
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The main problem with his screed is that he's wrong about spotify, not just on the amount paid(which he is), but what it means for artists- specifically the long term vs short term payment model. In the current(dying) system a band's record is pressed, sold, listened to, resold, then listened to some more. The band is only paid for the initial pressings - it doesn't receive any payment for a resale and it doesn't matter if the album is listened to once or 1000 times, they receive the same amount. This means that a band makes most of the money from their work in a relatively short time span and unless they are one of the lucky few to hit it big and have their albums be re-pressed 15-20yrs later they will never see a dime from that album again. With a pay-per-play style system every time someone listen's to a song that artist gets paid, whether the album came out yesterday or 20 years ago. Of course there are arguments for both systems, but ranting about a small check you'll get 1000 times in your life compared to large checks you might only get 2-3 times doesn't hold much water

whole spotify barely pays artists story is bunk

david lowery might be right about some things but hes wrong about streaming money and artists

Last edited by Euronomus : 01-06-2013 at 04:18 PM.

 
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:15 PM   #15
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i don't even see why you have to make money from music nowadays. making music is cheaper than it ever was. just get a normal day job and rehearse/record on the weekends. woops - you're an artist. who needs losers like this guy or billy corgan whining over his millions anyway? this coming from a guy who does not download music btw

 
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:17 PM   #16
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i mean i'm n ot sure this guy has millions
cracker had one sort of hit

 
Old 01-06-2013, 04:19 PM   #17
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the millions referred to BC obviously. although he might be poor by now, i don't know. he deserves losing every penny he loses.

 
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:52 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graveflower View Post
i mean i'm n ot sure this guy has millions
cracker had one sort of hit
they still have a dedicated fanbase and tour all the time though -- I'm sure this guy is doing fine

 
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:15 PM   #19
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i should mention that the person he's directly responding too is pretty stupid
i mean it's awful to be going on about not buying music at all
when i'm defending my downloading its from my perspective of owning hundreds each of cds, lps and tapes, not from owning 15 cds and just NEVER buying anything

 
Old 01-06-2013, 07:02 PM   #20
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This guy deals in absolutes and it's absolutely mindblowingly annoying.

Do I download illegally?

Hell yeah. But, for example, I downloaded a leaked copy of R.E.M.'s Collapse Into Now.

Complete trash, not worth money. Did I delete it off iTunes? No. Did I purchase it? No. Just because they spent money to make something doesn't make it worth my money.

New scenario. Deftones Koi No Yokan. Did I illegally download it? Hell yes, when it leaked. Did I purchase it? Yes, the CD and the vinyl. Because it was worth the money.

I mean, for example, if I buy a shitty pair of headphones, I can return them and get full money back. But if I buy a CD and open it, or a record, I'm stuck with it, even though the CD/vinyl may suck ass.

 
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:35 PM   #21
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just something to think about

 
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:34 AM   #22
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the party king

 
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:08 AM   #23
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:twisted:

 
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