minimum wage

[Elphenor]

EVERYTHING was shittier 100 years ago, and the idea is to be able to look back a hundred years from now and say "Holy shit, how did anyone put up with working like that"

[Elphenor]

Originally Posted by Poots

Go to India. Any part of India. You won't complain about shit anymore for the rest of your life.

This is stupid, of course things are worse in India, what does that have to do with anything


People being raised to believe they are entitled to a certain quality of life is a positive thing not a negative thing.

[Sonic Johnny]

Well hey good news buddy pretty soon the burger will assemble itself and you can go live on the street. What exactly are you expecting? A burger flipping job with full dental and medical, six weeks paid leave a year and counsellors on hand to make sure you're finding your job existentially satisfying? Saying that society has to keep progressing and progressing - whatever the fuck it is you even mean by progressing in this instance - until your shitty unfilling job ceases to be shitty and unfulfilling is just so profoundly dumb.

[The exploding boy]

Originally Posted by Elijah Moon

To be fair, though, pointing out that others have had it worse, or have it worse, doesn't really help when people feel like shit. We should all wake up saying, "Thank god I have clean water to drink" or "Thank god my living standards are better than they would've been a hundred years back", but we generally don't, as far as I can see - I just don't think we're wired that way.

yes. It's a retarded argument "kids in africa". Well yes of course kids in africa...

[Elphenor]

Let's not try to protect free speech and religion because in Iran it barely exists, let's not push for marriage equality because in Russia it's straight up illegal to be gay, let's not push for worker's rights because in China there aren't any

[Sonic Johnny]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

People being raised to believe they are entitled to a certain quality of life is a positive thing not a negative thing.

BZZZZTTT wrong answer. People being born into a society that affords them a certain quality of life isn't a negative thing. People being born and living and dying with a minimum of suffering is an excellent thing. People feeling entitled to that quality of life and behaving accordingly regardless of the consequences for others, now that's a really shitty thing.

[Elphenor]

All rights and freedoms only exist because people are raised to believe they have a right to them.

[Sonic Johnny]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

Let's not try to protect free speech and religion because in Iran it barely exists, let's not push for marriage equality because in Russia it's straight up illegal to be gay, let's not push for worker's rights because in China there aren't any

but you're not talking about free speech or marriage equality or even really worker's rights, you're talking about your own shitty feeling of privilege that says that even a menial straight-out-of-school job should be a walk in the park. How you think it's okay to compare that situation to gay people being denied the right to marry who they love is beyond me.

[Elphenor]

If people were raised to believe they are only entitled to the life we had 100 years ago, we'd all be working 16 hour days with one arm

[Elphenor]

Originally Posted by Sonic Johnny

but you're not talking about free speech or marriage equality or even really worker's rights, you're talking about your own shitty feeling of privilege that says that even a menial straight-out-of-school job should be a walk in the park. How you think it's okay to compare that situation to gay people being denied the right to marry who they love is beyond me.

It's about progress. And no matter what period of time you look at the argument against progress was the same thing.

"100 years ago is was way worse"

[Sonic Johnny]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

All rights and freedoms only exist because people are raised to believe they have a right to them.

NO YOU STUPID FUCK RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS EXIST BECAUSE PEOPLE WORK THEIR ENTIRE LIVES AND FIGHT AND DIE TO ACHIEVE AND ATTAIN A DEGREE OF LIBERTY FOR THEIR FELLOW HUMANS, NOT JUST BECAUSE PEOPLE WAKE UP IN THE MORNING AND JUST SUDDENLY EXPECT TO FEEL WARM AND FUZZY HANDING OUT SOFT SERVE IN THE FUCKING TACO BELL DRIVE THRU

[Elphenor]

Originally Posted by Sonic Johnny

Well hey good news buddy pretty soon the burger will assemble itself and you can go live on the street. What exactly are you expecting? A burger flipping job with full dental and medical, six weeks paid leave a year and counsellors on hand to make sure you're finding your job existentially satisfying?.

Pretty much. I hope we eventually get to this point

[Sonic Johnny]

how do you not get what i'm trying to explain to you here:

I don't think the world is perfect how it is. In fact I spent a huge amount of time thinking about all the ways it's imperfect. I agree that people need to continue to work and push for the rights and civil liberties of the persecuted, under-privileged, and abused. I think that we're a long, long, long way from even getting close to where we should be as a species.

But you know what? When I think about all the shit I want to see change - the end of homelessness, universal education and healthcare, equal rights for the LGBTQ community, greater religious tolerance, YOUR FUCKING WORKERS RIGHTS IN YOUR GOD DAMN MIDDLE CLASS SHITKICKER JOB ARE NOT ON THAT LIST ANYWHERE.

[Elphenor]

Originally Posted by Sonic Johnny

NO YOU STUPID FUCK RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS EXIST BECAUSE PEOPLE WORK THEIR ENTIRE LIVES AND FIGHT AND DIE TO ACHIEVE AND ATTAIN A DEGREE OF LIBERTY FOR THEIR FELLOW HUMANS, NOT JUST BECAUSE PEOPLE WAKE UP IN THE MORNING AND JUST SUDDENLY EXPECT TO FEEL WARM AND FUZZY HANDING OUT SOFT SERVE IN THE FUCKING TACO BELL DRIVE THRU

They fought and died to push the idea that a living wage and dignified work was every person's right

[Sonic Johnny]

There are people who deserve better things in this world than the world gives them - you are not one of them. You have all your limbs intact, you are clearly literate, and you live in a part of the world with eletricity and internet access. You want job satisfaction? Go fucking take it. Society doesn't owe you a god damn thing.

[Elijah Moon]

Originally Posted by Poots

The point is that I used to complain about working and getting up every day and being a general spoiled bitch, and then I went to India for a month and saw people sleeping with their head on a curb and naked parentless toddlers running through traffic and human shit everywhere and leoprosy beggers and untold heartbreaking suffering all in 120 degree heat and I realized that my life is pretty fucking good.

It is an insult to people like that when you complain about how your manager at Burger King is a dick

So, you do care about people in India and their plight, because that's true poverty and misery, but where's your cut off point? Is there anyone in the West whose life you would agree is as bad as the poorest people in India? Is it some kind of competition about who has it the worst? Can you not extend your empathy?

[Elphenor]

Originally Posted by Sonic Johnny

how do you not get what i'm trying to explain to you here:

I don't think the world is perfect how it is. In fact I spent a huge amount of time thinking about all the ways it's imperfect. I agree that people need to continue to work and push for the rights and civil liberties of the persecuted, under-privileged, and abused. I think that we're a long, long, long way from even getting close to where we should be as a species.

But you know what? When I think about all the shit I want to see change - the end of homelessness, universal education and healthcare, equal rights for the LGBTQ community, greater religious tolerance, YOUR FUCKING WORKERS RIGHTS IN YOUR GOD DAMN MIDDLE CLASS SHITKICKER JOB ARE NOT ON THAT LIST ANYWHERE.

While I would agree those other things are bigger problems certainly it's still pretty much irrelevant.

Again, it's like people are starving to death every day in Africa, but we don't put every problem in the world on hold to address it.

[Sonic Johnny]

Hey look I agree that the minimum wage in the US is too low. But that dignified work thing? THATS WHAT YOU'RE GETTING. YOU DIDNT LICK ANYONES BOOTS CLEAN THIS MORNING SHITHEAD.

[Elphenor]

Originally Posted by Sonic Johnny

There are people who deserve better things in this world than the world gives them - you are not one of them. You have all your limbs intact, you are clearly literate, and you live in a part of the world with eletricity and internet access. You want job satisfaction? Go fucking take it. Society doesn't owe you a god damn thing.

This isn't even about me, I'm talking about fast food workers and how they need to unionize because their jobs are significantly worse than jobs that pay the same.

[Sonic Johnny]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

Again, it's like people are starving to death every day in Africa, but we don't put every problem in the world on hold to address it.

But we should, and we should do it before we worry about your job satisfaction. If there was some way that every kid in Africa could get fed but the tradeoff was that you got no toilet breaks in your job and had to walk around with shit in your pants all day, I would sign off on that.

[Elphenor]

Originally Posted by Sonic Johnny

Hey look I agree that the minimum wage in the US is too low. But that dignified work thing? THATS WHAT YOU'RE GETTING. YOU DIDNT LICK ANYONES BOOTS CLEAN THIS MORNING SHITHEAD.

I would totally disagree that the definition of dignified work is "not having to lick people's boots" or anything similarly humiliating.

There is a lot of unfair treatment towards employees that I've seen just in my minimal amount of experience

[Elphenor]

Originally Posted by Sonic Johnny

But we should, and we should do it before we worry about your job satisfaction. If there was some way that every kid in Africa could get fed but the tradeoff was that you got no toilet breaks in your job and had to walk around with shit in your pants all day, I would sign off on that.

Donate the money you spend on internet every month to Africa

[Sonic Johnny]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

This isn't even about me, I'm talking about fast food workers and how they need to unionize because their jobs are significantly worse than jobs that pay the same.

You WERE saying that, quite some time ago, and then you asserted that the reason fast food work sucks is because society has somehow faltered on its march towards achieving a basic standard of human living, and that was where I took exception to what you were saying, because it's a super privileged, snotty, entitled way to look at it, and it belittles the injustices that befall others because you're painting the whole thing with the same brush.

YOU LITERALLY SAID YOU WOULD RATHER KILL YOURSELF THEN DO A JOB THAT PEOPLE THE WORLD OVER AND ALL THROUGHOUT HISTORY WOULD HAVE TREATED AS A GIFT FROM ON HIGH. HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT THIS IS A FUCKING APPALLING ATTITUDE?

[Elphenor]

The fact that shit was worse in the past has nothing to do with anything. Fast Food is behind where needs to be in terms of worker's rights today.

And it was not my intention to paint all injustices with one brush.

[Sonic Johnny]

That's it, i'm done, i'm fucking out, there is no getting through to you. I really hope for your sake that nothing bad ever happens to you because if having a fast food job is enough to make you suicidal god knows how you would handle paraplegia or PTSD or wrongful imprisonment or civil war or slavery. Here's hoping you get a little perspective before you're old enough to pass this kind of entitlement on to your kids.

[Elphenor]

Because you're not paraplegic you have no right to complain about an injustice. Okay, man

[Elphenor]

Everyone let's completely halt all progress because "Hey, we aren't slaves"

[Cool As Ice Cream]

lol elphy you need to grow up, man

[The exploding boy]

Originally Posted by Sonic Johnny

if having a fast food job is enough to make you suicidal

It's the right attitude to have if you want to make sure NOT to end up doing minimum wage work.

Also it's perfectly ok to choose death over a situation that is not satisfying to you. Everyone's life is their own. Too many people hang on to shitty unsatisfying hopeless lives in the process often making more people miserable (kids, loved ones, etc).

[Cool As Ice Cream]

yes coz suicide typically cheers up your children and loved ones