Should Billy have ever reformed the band after the split in 2000?

[Elijah Moon]

I think I know what the consensus is.

[Elijah Moon]

"shouls" "200". Shoot my typos.

[Elijah Moon]

Amazing.

[freshfacedyouth]

after the past 7 years, you can't say it was a good idea

i'm saying this as a fan of both zeitgeist and oceania, the latter being the album that got me interested in the pumpkins in the first place

[Elijah Moon]

After posting this poll I realized I definitely didn't, in fact, have an idea of the "general consensus" because everyone here discovered the band at different times.

[freshfacedyouth]

but i will admit i am hyped for mtae and dfn, even if they are both likely to disappoint

[Baffler_Meal]

My gut reaction is that it was a bad idea overall. Fan since 95 if it matters...

Overall Zeitgeist was a dud and Oceania wasn't overtly bad as much as it wasn't substantially interesting. And the soulless drums... There are cool parts you can find across both albums, but nothing too inspiring.

There were high points for me, though.

• American Gothic - Love it. Favorite Pumpkin EP. Some of that fandom might be from it coming right after Zeitgiest. It was very refreshing.
• FOL and GLOW - Just tune out the lyrics. For the love of Cthulhu, stupid lyrics. But the music was awesome. One Pastichio Medley song and the other still sounding like MCIS.
• Pinwheels - The intro
• Glissandra - Lots of hate here for the song, but it resonates with me.
• Ma Belle - Love when the song "gets loud" near the end.
• Pale Horse - Not great overall, but I enjoyed the reverse drum...thing... at the end.
• OWATA - With Jimmy. Chris Isaac show version is pretty good, as is the Bridge School one.

There are probably a few more high points I could find, but I'll spare you. Has the brand of The Smashing Pumpkins been tarnished by the come back? I think the answer is "Yes." But even with the crap that has been put out in spades, I'm glad we can still get the occasional glimpses which remind us of why we started listening in the fist place.

[Ram27]

No.

Zwan was more SP than post-2000 SP. Shoulda just kept that going. You can't really reform a band properly with only 1/2 the original members, revisionist history aside

Originally Posted by qlitchford

OWATA - With Jimmy. Chris Isaac show version is pretty good, as is the Bridge School one.

Yeah, that was awesome. I can't really say this without circlejerking but Teargarden would've been much better with Jimmy

[Elijah Moon]

I was saying on Facebook the other week that I wish Billy had tried harder to keep Zwan going - I actually liked the album a lot when it came out, and even now I find it so much more listenable than any post-2000 SP. Yeah, the Zwan album might have been a bit naive, maybe lightweight in some ways, but I enjoyed it a lot, in the main. Plus, he wouldn't have sullied the Smashing Pumpkins brand.

[thedeadofnight]

I can't help but think about the legacy this band would have had they never reformed. I feel in hindsight, it was a bad idea to come back. Now the beautiful memory of the band up until 2000 will be mixed in with all the bullshit that has happened since.

[Mals Marola]

i was wondering more if they should have ever broken up

probably, i guess, since i have to wonder if james (and i guess melissa for that matter) would have even stayed if he hadn't

i know he's mentioned on at least a coupla occasions that it mighta been a misstep, what would have come directly after machina?

[null123]

I like his solo album and I feel like he confused himself with the whole Pumpkins thing. I don't think anyone wouldve minded if he played old pumpkins songs and had jimmy come in to play too. If he had done it that way I think there would've been no negative specter hanging over the whole thing, people would've probably volunteered the idea that it's like the pumpkins "reunited" and he wouldn't be going in circles trying to prove it was a good decision or that the music has to be pumpkinsy or blah blah protect the legacy whatever. That's my gut feeling anyway

[Mals Marola]

Originally Posted by Charmbag

I like his solo album and I feel like he confused himself with the whole Pumpkins thing. I don't think anyone wouldve minded if he played old pumpkins songs and had jimmy come in to play too. If he had done it that way I think there would've been no negative specter hanging over the whole thing, people would've probably volunteered the idea that it's like the pumpkins "reunited" and he wouldn't be going in circles trying to prove it was a good decision or that the music has to be pumpkinsy or blah blah protect the legacy whatever. That's my gut feeling anyway

following the ravinia show, i think this would have been pretty awesome actually
i think most people, pump fans or not can understand why he did what he did though

or not

[werideatdusk]

I think this question will ultimately be decided by how these two new albums turn out.

One thing to keep in mind is that we fans, especially those of us who have been fans since before the original SP broke up, have been along for this journey and have been all-too aware of all the behind the scenes drama, the ridiculous interviews, the bad blood, the disappointment of the releases, and our own evolving opinions. I think the majority of fans are at least somewhat disappointed with SP2, and many of the old fans are more on the 'disgusted' side. {And I agree that the new material is certainly pale compared to the magic of the original releases - Gish, SIamese, Pisces, MCIS, TAFH, Adore, Machina 1 and 2. Compare that line with the post-2000 output in general - Mary Star of the Sea, The Future Embrace, Zeitgeist, Teargarden 1 & 2, and Oceania - and it's an obvious and sizable dip in quality.} BUT--- when future generations discover this band, they're just gonna have the music. In 2040, will some kid enjoy something off of "Oceania" and something off of "Mellon Collie" and feel that they are of a piece? Quite possibly. Will someone listen to "Quiet" and "Lightning Strikes" and feel that they are different tonalities of a similar spirit? I think so.

The important thing for me is that Corgan keeps making music and keeps pushing himself to do more. He could have just stopped altogether. If he thinks making "SP" music versus making "Billy Corgan" music pushes him into being creative and productive, I say let him. A lot of fans have their version of "SP" and it's the one that ended in 2000 (or 1996, or 1999, or 2008)... so who cares what he does now? You'll always have the old albums, you'll always be able to NOT go to see the new band, to NOT listen to the new stuff...

For me, I'll readily admit that nothing he's done since Adore has touched the majesty of the '92 to '98 period. But I've enjoyed every step of the journey, and I will keep doing so, no matter what it's called.

[werideatdusk]

And just for fun, these are the 07-12 songs that I think can stand shoulder to shoulder with SP1 material...just my personal taste...songs that reveal some ingenuity and spark and don't just go through the motions of what "SP" is

*Gossamer
*Starz
*United States
*Tarantula
*Bring the Light
*Come On Let's Go
*Stellar
*Zeitgeist
*The Rose March
*Superchrist
*The Sound of Silence
*The March Hare
*A Song for a Son
*A Stitch in Time
*Freak
*Tom Tom
*Lightning Strikes
*Quasar
*Panopticon
*Violet Rays
*My Love is Winter
*Pinwheels
*Oceania
*Pale Horse
*Inkless
*Wildflower

[null123]

Originally Posted by Mals Marola

following the ravinia show, i think this would have been pretty awesome actually
i think most people, pump fans or not can understand why he did what he did though

or not

Yea hindsight is 20/20

[The exploding boy]

I wanted to answer Yes, he shouldn't have but it wasn't an option.

I like to keep things positive always.

[Order 66]

OP is kind of weird because they never really "reformed"

but for shits... i can sympathize with bringing back "smashing pumpkins"... if i started a band and it was my life's passion i don't think i could part with it either. though how he went about bringing it back and the content it produced, well, that's another can of worms. but on an objective level i never really had any problem with him making music under the SP label. and unless he did something drastically different, like how Blur is to Gorillaz, I don't see why he should ever retire it

[bye june]

I really love Sunkissed, I think it's one of the best post-2000 songs.

[bye june]

I fine with Bill calling himself "The Smashing Pumpkins."

Just make good music please.

[dreams of glass]

The thing for me is I've been a fan since Gish and up through TAFH, and after Adore, my interest in the band completely dropped off, and for a time I even thought they had *already* broken up, or at least were on hiatus. Anyway, I had almost forgotten about them until suddenly I was hearing the Everlasting Gaze on the radio. I went out and bought Machina, and pretty much fell in love with the album about the second listen. It was, at that time, to me, a "return to form" that I had been craving.

Flash forward to 2007, and again, I was hyped for the "return" of SP. I even pre-ordered the Doomsday Clock single off iTunes, watched the countdown to 7/07/07, etc.

Talk about underwhelming.

ANYWAY, to keep from giving a wall of text post, I really hope the new stuff is good, and it needs to be better than Oceania or TBK to really justify the Smashing Pumpkins brand.

And if nothing else, I really really hope that machina I and II are going to be repackaged as one album. Please, Billy, just do this one thing.

[werideatdusk]

Originally Posted by dreams of glass

And if nothing else, I really really hope that machina I and II are going to be repackaged as one album. Please, Billy, just do this one thing.

this is happening for sure, he's talked about it repeatedly and it's underway.

[dreams of glass]

Originally Posted by werideatdusk

this is happening for sure, he's talked about it repeatedly and it's underway.

Yes. So will the albums be re-mastered to sound the same though, I wonder.

[Mals Marola]

they're being remixed and remastered

[vbshlofbvgos]

It was a mistake to bring the name back but I admit that it's very easy to say that now. I was very much in favor of it (although bummed that James and Darcy weren't there) back in 2007. I know that Billy has the right to use the name but it just feels wrong that he's the only original member left and all of his current band mates are/were so much younger than him. If he was playing under any other name I wouldn't care about such things. Is that unfair? Probably. Anyway, it just seems like he's boxed himself in creatively by using the name even though he claims that it's the total opposite. The biggest problem though is that the majority of the music written since 2007 has been extremely underwhelming compared to what came before it. It just doesn't feel like much good has come out of this.

[MrBoki]

Out of all the reformed Smashing Pumpkins releases I feel Zeitgeist is actually the best! I think it's way better than Oceania, but I do enjoy Oceania. Crapgarden By Crapscope is TERRIBLE.

Overall Billy has kind of ruined the legacy of The Smashing Pumpkins and lessened the impact of the band's rich history by reforming it

[Trotskilicious]

crap garden by crap scope lol so witty

[Elphenor]

Teargarden is the most interesting thing Billy has done since the Pumpkins originally ended. If the 44 songs had actually been released I think there would have been major respect for Billy even in Pitchfork or whatever.

Some of the songs were complete shit, but the weird new age vibe mixed with 70's guitars mixed with new wave was pretty interesting.

[Trotskilicious]

kids today and their bullshit

[Elijah Moon]

Originally Posted by Order 66

OP is kind of weird because they never really "reformed"

Yeah, I noticed I fucked up the question, but I think everyone got what was meant.