so, is it undisputed fact that billy and jimmy engineered Zeigeist to...

[mpp]

sounds better on headphones?


I'll be honest, I'm that "I don't really have an iPod 27-year-old i still listen to Cd's guy" until recently when my parents bought me an iPod Touch for my birthday

man, it's a whole new Zeitgeist world...i even like *gasp* bleeding the orchid

[Rider]

yeah that annoying buzz of clipping sounds so much better when you are using headphones.

[mpp]

yeah the buzz is weird

on 7 shades, it's kind of intimidating

[Fritter]

I dunno, but i've always thought of bleeding the orchid as one of the better songs.

[avsfan7733]

i don't think you guys really know what clipping really is. You just heard it used to bash ZWAN so you apply it to everything else.

[Rider]

Originally Posted by avsfan7733

i don't think you guys really know what clipping really is. You just heard it used to bash ZWAN so you apply it to everything else.

I know exactly what it is it's annoying buzz, Kind of sounds like the buzz you hear from a blown speaker. The first time I ever noticed it was Stand Inside Your Love during the bridge. It drives me fucking nuts, and it's not just the Pumpkins the last Dinosaur JR was unlistenable. The really bad part is my hearing is perfect in my left ear but I have some hearing lose in my right ear so I only hear it in my left ear, which just makes it stand out that much more to me. I'm convinced that the majority of people have ruined their hearing to the point that they can not even hear clipping which is why idiots like you make these comments. The simple fact is no the album was not made to be played on headphones, it was like every other album of the past decade mastered for car stereos and jukeboxes, places where all that matters is volume, not dynamics or subtly.

Also if I remember correctly Bleeding The Orchid actually sounds horrible on headphones, clips on almost every vocal line during the chorus.

[greedo]

I have heard the earphones that come with iPods are crap (so are the actual iPods if you ask me, but that's just personal taste). Try getting a decent pair of earphones. I got crap earphones with my MP3 player, and the replacements I got sound awesome.

And most CDs these days are engineered to be 'loud', which to me sounds a little 'harsh', but there's not much we can do about it.

[avsfan7733]

well your bitching won't do much to fix it. Get used to it. Thats how they make records in 2008.

[i'm cool]

ear fatigue

[greedo]

Originally Posted by i'm cool

ear fatigue

Ear fatigue is what really annoys me. The urge to listen to music goes away very quickly for me once my ears start to hurt, and this even happens on soft music, not just loud stuff.

Ear fatigue is a real mood dampener.

[SlingeroGuitaro]

actually, most major label albums are produced with the ipod generation in mind. the lack of dynamics on an album has less to do with the 'loudness wars' than it does it being easier to listen to through earbuds.

many of the new monitor systems in development now are made as a reference to earbuds.

[skipgo]

thank god i'm not an audiophile.

[commando]

I first heard Orchid on headphones and thought it was sooo gorgeous.

[SlingeroGuitaro]

Originally Posted by skipgo

thank god i'm not an audiophile.

did you know mp3s are being blamed for causing tinnitus?

[Rider]

Originally Posted by SlingeroGuitaro

did you know mp3s are being blamed for causing tinnitus?

Not sure how much credit I give these reports. For years they were saying CD's were causing tinnitus, something about the fact that it's squared off samples instead of a smooth wave. I think the problem is pretty simple, people using headphones and raising the volume to insane levels. I do think mastering plays a role though for example there are certain songs that just plain kill my ears even at a normal volume, but I'm not convinced there's any validity for the analog/digital argument.

[skipgo]

all i know is my mom used to get on my case for listening to my walkman too loud; i probably permanently damaged my hearing long before mp3s existed. honestly the only music i can think of that's ever hurt my ears is machina. it's probably the reason it took me so long to appreciate the songs themselves, because i couldn't get past feeling like my ears were being blasted with explosives everytime i tried to listen to it.

[Rider]

Originally Posted by skipgo

all i know is my mom used to get on my case for listening to my walkman too loud; i probably permanently damaged my hearing long before mp3s existed. honestly the only music i can think of that's ever hurt my ears is machina. it's probably the reason it took me so long to appreciate the songs themselves, because i couldn't get past feeling like my ears were being blasted with explosives everytime i tried to listen to it.

I always thought I had a bad rip of Machina, or that there was something wrong with my headphones. I would always try to lower the volume but it would sound like it was blasting no mater how low I played it.

[SlingeroGuitaro]

Originally Posted by Rider

Not sure how much credit I give these reports. For years they were saying CD's were causing tinnitus, something about the fact that it's squared off samples instead of a smooth wave. I think the problem is pretty simple, people using headphones and raising the volume to insane levels. I do think mastering plays a role though for example there are certain songs that just plain kill my ears even at a normal volume, but I'm not convinced there's any validity for the analog/digital argument.

the argument isnt the volume or digital/analog- it is the makeup of mp3's at lower sample rates- the garble. they say the garble is present in a way that has a tendency to damage a persons ears simply by overloading their ears with an unnatural form of fatigue.

[pumpkinxyu]

Originally Posted by mpp

sounds better on headphones?


I'll be honest, I'm that "I don't really have an iPod 27-year-old i still listen to Cd's guy" until recently when my parents bought me an iPod Touch for my birthday

man, it's a whole new Zeitgeist world...i even like *gasp* bleeding the orchid

confessionally, as much of a hello to mpp as anything else. but...

i listened to zeitgeist on headphones for the first time while on vacation in new orleans. i realized i had to listen to United States very urgently. i did, and i think i'm still recovering. perfect song, and as for the rest of it...perfect record.

[tcm]

i remember the first time i listened to doomsday clock was through headphones and i had an unmistakable sensation of dozens of disembodied heads of billy corgan bouncing around inside my skull. it was and still is one of the top fifty awesomest moments of my life so far.

[RenewRevive]

Originally Posted by Rider

I always thought I had a bad rip of Machina, or that there was something wrong with my headphones. I would always try to lower the volume but it would sound like it was blasting no mater how low I played it.

yeah, i could rarely get through the whole thing on headphones, even over my speakers it wore me down. i don't get this fatigue at all with the pre-master.

[emotionalfriend]

Originally Posted by avsfan7733

i don't think you guys really know what clipping really is. You just heard it used to bash ZWAN so you apply it to everything else.

I think you're right for the most part. of course there are a few people who know what clipping is. once they voiced their frustrations about it, all the automatons followed suit. same goes for the overproduced complaints.

i didn't know what clipping was until the Zwan fiasco. I didn't care about it then. and i don't care about it now. my ears aren't trained enough (or they've been damaged enough) to really notice it.

[emotionalfriend]

Originally Posted by skipgo

thank god i'm not an audiophile.

music is a lot more enjoyable when you're not an audiophile, isn't it?

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by emotionalfriend

music is a lot more enjoyable when you're not an audiophile, isn't it?

yes. yes it is.

[tcm]

ain't nothin' wrong with audiophilia as long as it doesn't consume you. the xtreme compression is a damn shame, the clipping is unforgivable and not a myth, but i have little trouble looking (listening) past it to appreciate THE MUSIC.

[skipgo]

Originally Posted by emotionalfriend

music is a lot more enjoyable when you're not an audiophile, isn't it?

very much so.

[stumpycat]

Two things:

1) Billy's sound production always does seem to sound much richer while enjoyed through headphones. Even back in The Marked days.

2) Despite the above, I have noticed that odd paradox that the recent Billy Corgan related records (actually, many records...not just Billy or SP) don't sound so good through conventional speakers anymore. For me, the clipping shit just gets really noticeable.

[grape]

Originally Posted by Rider

I know exactly what it is it's annoying buzz, Kind of sounds like the buzz you hear from a blown speaker. The first time I ever noticed it was Stand Inside Your Love during the bridge. It drives me fucking nuts, and it's not just the Pumpkins the last Dinosaur JR was unlistenable. The really bad part is my hearing is perfect in my left ear but I have some hearing lose in my right ear so I only hear it in my left ear, which just makes it stand out that much more to me. I'm convinced that the majority of people have ruined their hearing to the point that they can not even hear clipping which is why idiots like you make these comments. The simple fact is no the album was not made to be played on headphones, it was like every other album of the past decade mastered for car stereos and jukeboxes, places where all that matters is volume, not dynamics or subtly.

Also if I remember correctly Bleeding The Orchid actually sounds horrible on headphones, clips on almost every vocal line during the chorus.

If you have to damage your hearing to enjoy Dinosaur Jr's Beyond, I recommend doing so. Hang out on an airport tarmac or something.