Something is happening on nin.com tonight

[Rider]

Originally Posted by aldango

I wasn't talking about that, dude. I was referring to how he thinks he's so high and mighty above the ways of the music industry when that very industry gave him what he has now. I think that his actions spark more people to believe that by pirating music they're doing musicians a great service, which isn't always true (also, at Netphoria the consensus on downloading differs greatly from what I have seen the majority of people say on different websites).

However, I like what he did this time - some it's free, most of it's paid. That's a cool idea.



Because I don't agree with most of his ideas about the industry!

I know there was streaming music on the popup. I was referring to streaming music on a larger scale. I should have been more specific.

I think we now have a new record for dumbest post ever.

[aldango]

Originally Posted by Ol' Couch Ass

He's giving people options. Clearly he was disappointed with the purchase rate for Saul William's record but in the end Niggy Tardust still pocketed SW more cash than his last album and I'm sure attendance/vending/t-shirts at his shows will be far greater with more people having access to the album.

You gotta respect that TR isn't keeping his head in the sand and thinking he can wish downloading away. It is only going to get worse and those who don't tinker with the model and figure out another way of doing business are going the way of the dodo.

As for his high and mighty views of the music industry more power to him. Sometimes you need to step on a few heads to get where you need to go. Should a studly cock swinging swordsman call his first girlfriend to thank her for allowing him to hone his craft on her everytime he bangs his current squeeze? No sir. They both fucked each other and are now moving on.

Totally agree, totally agree, moderately disagree. I was saying that I think he's leading a lot of people into downloading for the wrong reasons (eg "yeah w00 fuk everyone music is Fr333!!!" people). You have to look outside Netphoria (mostly...) to see this.

Originally Posted by Eulogy

well that's overstating it a little bit, wouldn't you say?

It is a bit dramatic. I think my opinion holds though. People are seeing him say "fuck the industry" and seeing that as some kind of blessing for piracy, thinking that all musicians agree with him.

Originally Posted by Rider

I think we now have a new record for dumbest post ever.

Care to elaborate? Your attempt humor is lost on me.

Look, this is what I think: if an artist doesn't offer his work for free, then I shouldn't take it for free. However, if bands think that giving stuff (whether it be full or partial bodies of work) away for free will benefit in the long run (eg what Trent Reznor appears to be doing), then good for them. But I'm going to let them make that decision, not myself.

[Ol' Couch Ass]

Originally Posted by aldango

TYou have to look outside Netphoria (mostly...) to see this.

Blasphemy!

[aldango]

Originally Posted by Ol' Couch Ass

Blasphemy!

Haha. I'm serious! A completely different picture is painted for people who only spend time on Netphoria.

In my experience, the consensus is that people don't give two shits about artists. That might not be true here, whatever. But that's my experience.

[Rider]

Originally Posted by aldango

Totally agree, totally agree, moderately disagree. I was saying that I think he's leading a lot of people into downloading for the wrong reasons (eg "yeah w00 fuk everyone music is Fr333!!!" people). You have to look outside Netphoria (mostly...) to see this.


It is a bit dramatic. I think my opinion holds though. People are seeing him say "fuck the industry" and seeing that as some kind of blessing for piracy, thinking that all musicians agree with him.


Care to elaborate? Your attempt humor is lost on me.

Look, this is what I think: if an artist doesn't offer his work for free, then I shouldn't take it for free. However, if bands think that giving stuff (whether it be full or partial bodies of work) away for free will benefit in the long run (eg what Trent Reznor appears to be doing), then good for them. But I'm going to let them make that decision, not myself.

Your basic premise is totally without logic and retarded. If you really think this is going to have any measurable affect on illegal downloading you are insane.

He's not justifying anything, he is trying to deal with reality in a realistic and competent way. Plain and simple the way artists make money from now is going to be vastly different. He also has had very good points in the past, for example if sites like oink were legal lots of people would happily fork over 20$ a month to be a member I know I would.

There is also a basic failed assumption in the anti-piracy propaganda. If piracy ended tomorrow record sales would not increase people would just listen to less music. It's not like anyone is ever going to actually purchase as much as they download.

The industry needs to stop with the DRM, stop with the over-hyped propaganda, and start actually looking at sites like OINK, and WHAT as the models of the future. People are never going to pay .99 per song for a file that is crippled with DRM. More and More artists are going to follow the NIN/Radiohead model, I expect a few more major artists then we will start to see the indies and collectives joining up and doing the same.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by aldango

It is a bit dramatic. I think my opinion holds though. People are seeing him say "fuck the industry" and seeing that as some kind of blessing for piracy, thinking that all musicians agree with him.

well it's not Trent's responsibility to account for stupid people who read what he has to say.

[noyen]

we all know trent is a coattail rider. thats how he got to where he is today. he rode pigface, ministry, revco, and skinny puppy for all they were worth, and then he rode his mainstream friendly teen-age angst to an even more commercial friendly package, teaming up with really shitty bands and co-horts to where he is now, where he has the control he's always wanted. what an ego-maniac! fuck him!

but i like all his albums. his ethics have always been questionable. poor old whipping boy trent.

[aldango]

Originally Posted by Rider

Your basic premise is totally without logic and retarded. If you really think this is going to have any measurable affect on illegal downloading you are insane.

I don't think that my stance is going to have a measurable effect on downloading. In fact, I never claimed that it would fix the record industry, because it can't! But I can at least be comfortable with my actions. The problem with piracy is that people can't be caught, and therefore there's no reason (besides moral) to not pirate. Most people apparently don't have a moral problem with it, which I think is a bit questionable.

Again, I never claimed that my personal habits would save the music industry. Give me a break, all right?

Originally Posted by Rider

He's not justifying anything, he is trying to deal with reality in a realistic and competent way. Plain and simple the way artists make money from now is going to be vastly different. He also has had very good points in the past, for example if sites like oink were legal lots of people would happily fork over 20$ a month to be a member I know I would.

Ever heard of eMusic? No-DRM subscription kicks ass. Give it a shot. Here, I agree with you; subscriptions rock.

Originally Posted by Rider

There is also a basic failed assumption in the anti-piracy propaganda. If piracy ended tomorrow record sales would not increase people would just listen to less music. It's not like anyone is ever going to actually purchase as much as they download.

The income and substitution effects would come into play here. More music likely would be bought, but not as much as what was being distributed, obviously. But music sales would go up. Obviously we're speaking hypothetically here.

Originally Posted by Rider

The industry needs to stop with the DRM, stop with the over-hyped propaganda, and start actually looking at sites like OINK, and WHAT as the models of the future. People are never going to pay .99 per song for a file that is crippled with DRM. More and More artists are going to follow the NIN/Radiohead model, I expect a few more major artists then we will start to see the indies and collectives joining up and doing the same.

DRM has been dying a slow death for a while now. Look at eMusic, iTunes Plus, and Amazon - no DRM there. And that's great.

I don't see the Radiohead model (pay what you want) as being viable in the long run, but the current NIN model could work well. I do appreciate him doing different things.

[Rider]

Originally Posted by aldango

I don't think that my stance is going to have a measurable effect on downloading. In fact, I never claimed that it would fix the record industry, because it can't! But I can at least be comfortable with my actions. The problem with piracy is that people can't be caught, and therefore there's no reason (besides moral) to not pirate. Most people apparently don't have a moral problem with it, which I think is a bit questionable.

Again, I never claimed that my personal habits would save the music industry. Give me a break, all right?


Ever heard of eMusic? No-DRM subscription kicks ass. Give it a shot. Here, I agree with you; subscriptions rock.


The income and substitution effects would come into play here. More music likely would be bought, but not as much as what was being distributed, obviously. But music sales would go up. Obviously we're speaking hypothetically here.



DRM has been dying a slow death for a while now. Look at eMusic, iTunes Plus, and Amazon - no DRM there. And that's great.

I don't see the Radiohead model (pay what you want) as being viable in the long run, but the current NIN model could work well. I do appreciate him doing different things.

Again proving the retarded thing. I'm not talking about your stance I'm talking about your retarded claim that what Trent is doing and saying is going to make more people download illegally.

Yes DRM is dying a slow death, but the price is still way to high. There is also the fact that the artists you are so worried about are getting screwed over by sites like Napster. http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-988...l?tag=nefd.top

The future is one price for all buffet as usual the porn industry figures this shit out long before any other industry. Pay monthly download all you want porn sites are doing very well. http://www.videobox.com/warning.seam

[aldango]

Originally Posted by Rider

Again proving the retarded thing. I'm not talking about your stance I'm talking about your retarded claim that what Trent is doing and saying is going to make more people download illegally.

Yes DRM is dying a slow death, but the price is still way to high. There is also the fact that the artists you are so worried about are getting screwed over by sites like Napster. http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-988...l?tag=nefd.top

The future is one price for all buffet as usual the porn industry figures this shit out long before any other industry. Pay monthly download all you want porn sites are doing very well. http://www.videobox.com/warning.seam

Okay, I don't think I made myself clear originally. People (on digg, reddit) tend to misinterpret some of the things that Trent says and try to justify their music downloading because a big name star is going against the RIAA. They see him and the headline and feel all good about themselves. Okay? That's what I meant. I might not even be talking about Netphorians. It was a generalization that you've taken out of proportion.

Also, I think the current prices for music are fine ($8-13 for an album).