why does Howie Weinberg master all Billy's albums? - Page 2

Rider · 07-05-2007, 04:54 AM

http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/6460/untitledwr4.jpg

Really like really really bad cliping. You might want to actaully know what you are talking about before you say anything from now on.

T&T · 07-05-2007, 05:24 AM

why aren't artists putting out 2 different masters of their work....
they can release the album 5 different jackets, 5 different sets of bonus tracks...

maybe they should start releasing the "non compressed to shit" version as well...

Rider · 07-05-2007, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T&T

why aren't artists putting out 2 different masters of their work....
they can release the album 5 different jackets, 5 different sets of bonus tracks...

maybe they should start releasing the "non compressed to shit" version as well...

They are they put out the "remaster" where they really compress the shit out of everything. Also if you buy the SACD versions of albums all of sudden they are mastered correctly. Record companies are trying to ruin the sound of CD so they can sell the next fromat. For example the dual layer Dark Side Of The Moon, normal version clips, enhanced version no clipping.

T&T · 07-05-2007, 06:10 AM

then get me a f**king SACD of my pumpkins albums.....

teh b0lly!!1 · 07-05-2007, 07:36 AM

man, thats hideous to look at.
i cant believe professional record producers murder music this way, intentionally.
when recording my own shit i stay away from clipping like i stay away from fucking fire.

also, this is the most worthwhile discussion that has been on this board for a long while.

edit: some posts got crammed between Rider's pictures and my comment, obviously i meant those soundwave pictures

mccririck · 07-05-2007, 07:37 AM

Some good mastering engineers:

Steve Hoffman - www.stevehoffman.tv
Doug Schwartz
Steve Hall

Bob Ludwig is good most of the time. perhaps Beck wanted that to clip.

mccririck · 07-05-2007, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T&T

why aren't artists putting out 2 different masters of their work....

The last Red Hot Chili Peppers album was released on 150g and 180g vinyl which was mastered by Steve Hoffman, and it sounds superb. The CD is like dogshit in comparison.

I am hoping the 180g vinyl of Zeitgeist has had similar care in the mastering.

Rider · 07-05-2007, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mccririck

The last Red Hot Chili Peppers album was released on 150g and 180g vinyl which was mastered by Steve Hoffman, and it sounds superb. The CD is like dogshit in comparison.

I am hoping the 180g vinyl of Zeitgeist has had similar care in the mastering.

Yeah remember when we all hoped that MSOTS viynl would not clip.....

Really I son't think you can find a major lable album in the past 3-4 years that has no clipping, even fucking remastered Jazz albums clip.

mccririck · 07-05-2007, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rider

Yeah remember when we all hoped that MSOTS viynl would not clip.....

That is a bit of a one-off though, usually the vinyl sounds better than the CD, MSOTS is the only case I know of where the vinyl sounded worse!

Rider · 07-05-2007, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mccririck

Some good mastering engineers:

Steve Hoffman - www.stevehoffman.tv
Doug Schwartz
Steve Hall

Bob Ludwig is good most of the time. perhaps Beck wanted that to clip.

Downloading the new Audioslave album whihc he mastered how much you want to bet it clips like nothing we have ever seen before.

mccririck · 07-05-2007, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rider

Downloading the new Audioslave album whihc he mastered how much you want to bet it clips like nothing we have ever seen before.

ok it probably does. Strike Ludwig off the list.

Rider · 07-05-2007, 08:22 AM

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/9469/untitledil6.jpg
Like I said...

By the way that's just the first track I looked at the others are actually worse.

mccririck · 07-05-2007, 08:24 AM

That looks evil

brendo_91 · 07-05-2007, 08:26 AM

rider - what song is that?

also, is it actually clipping - i.e. lots of samples in a row at 0dBFS, or is it just very compressed? i haven't bothered to look yet, and won't until i have the album in my hands, if at all.

Rider · 07-05-2007, 08:28 AM

http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/3609/untitledjb0.jpg

Really someone who has mastered some dozens of the greatest albums of all time shiting on hislegacy to make money. Really I would just let them blacklist me.

ravenguy2000 · 07-05-2007, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thoughtless

Get off his nuts.

This is really all that needs to be said whenever the mastering loudness war debate comes up. It's a shame, yes, but until audiophiles who demand quality production can account for more of the sales than the "average consumers" who just want louder albums, it's not going to change.

Considering they can afford to sell 10 different configurations of the album with a rainbow of different colored covers and booklets maybe they could have thrown us a bone and put out one more that doesn't sound like shit.

I don't know the first thing about production or mastering or anything but when even dunces like me can tell it sounds really bad...I mean chalking it up to "that's business" still doesn't make it suck any less.

And it's all over the internet, not just on netphoria. I read a bunch of message boards and there's a lot of "this sounds bad" comments in all the SP threads.

Rider · 07-05-2007, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brendo_91

rider - what song is that?

also, is it actually clipping - i.e. lots of samples in a row at 0dBFS, or is it just very compressed? i haven't bothered to look yet, and won't until i have the album in my hands, if at all.

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/5221/untitledgp5.jpg
smaller clip of the last song I posted.

trev · 07-05-2007, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rider

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/9469/untitledil6.jpg

from memory looks a lot like "tarantula" - from when i was messing around with it to cut out the chorus.

teh b0lly!!1 · 07-05-2007, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rider

http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/3609/untitledjb0.jpg

Really someone who has mastered some dozens of the greatest albums of all time shiting on hislegacy to make money. Really I would just let them blacklist me.

can you name that song?
i want to download it only to hear really how disgusting it sounds.
if i didnt know this shit was true i would never believe you that anyone who can utter their name could do something so (intentionally) sloppy.

Rider · 07-05-2007, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1

can you name that song?
i want to download it only to hear really how disgusting it sounds.
if i didnt know this shit was true i would never believe you that anyone who can utter their name could do something so (intentionally) sloppy.

orignal fire.

ivor · 07-05-2007, 10:36 AM

Videos that explain this stuff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkkqsN69Jac

I'm sure Howie Weinberg is just doing what Billy wants. They have to approve the mastering before they start pressing copies. This is the reason that Ludwig is all over the map -- sometimes he does good work (e.g., the Sam Cooke remasters in 2003) and sometimes compresses stuff severely.

By the way, I noticed that the promo single of Tarantula is less compressed than the song on the (leaked) retail album.

werideatdusk · 07-05-2007, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rider

http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/3609/untitledjb0.jpg

Peter Quistgard is in the house!

brendo_91 · 07-05-2007, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by werideatdusk

Peter Quistgard is in the house!

paranoid · 07-05-2007, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rider

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/8803/untitleduj2.jpg

Every track on Sea Change clips horribly.

hence why in my second paragraph he mentioned the industry norm of how they make records sound dirty.

Pay attention.

the presentation was about how the music buis works, and for whatever reason records that clip like this sell.. he used sea change as an example and showed us how he did his work on that record. It's all intentional.

teh b0lly!!1 · 07-05-2007, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by werideatdusk

Peter Quistgard is in the house!

5 star post
+rep

gibsonlp · 07-05-2007, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T&T

why aren't artists putting out 2 different masters of their work....

they are. the latest rhcp and white stripes records come to mind. the cd issue of icky thump is completely unlistenable on anything but my worthless pc speakers.

wpc33 · 07-05-2007, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rider

They are they put out the "remaster" where they really compress the shit out of everything. Also if you buy the SACD versions of albums all of sudden they are mastered correctly. Record companies are trying to ruin the sound of CD so they can sell the next fromat. For example the dual layer Dark Side Of The Moon, normal version clips, enhanced version no clipping.

How do you know that? I read that SACD sucks for bass response, but maybe you know different. I did test the Scary Monsters SACD, the cd layer clips shitty. Did you or someone test the SACD by running it into a computer line-in? Or is this just a hunch....

soma09 · 07-05-2007, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wpc33

How do you know that? I read that SACD sucks for bass response, but maybe you know different. I did test the Scary Monsters SACD, the cd layer clips shitty. Did you or someone test the SACD by running it into a computer line-in? Or is this just a hunch....

the only bad thing about SACD's bass response is that there isn't good bass management in most players. So you can't change the crossover point, you just deal with the players defaults. and because there is no digital out just analog there is no way of fixing it. If you have a good system SACD sounds incredible.

mccririck · 07-05-2007, 02:22 PM

Some SACDs are mastered better than others, too.

flavin · 07-05-2007, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by werideatdusk

Peter Quistgard is in the house!

Haha I knew I recognized that name, I definitely used that one.

07-05-2007, 04:54 AM	#31
Rider Minion of Satan Location: I was born a snake handler, and I'll die a snake handler Posts: 9,517	http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/6460/untitledwr4.jpg Really like really really bad cliping. You might want to actaully know what you are talking about before you say anything from now on.

07-05-2007, 05:24 AM	#32
T&T Socialphobic Location: montreal Posts: 11,679	why aren't artists putting out 2 different masters of their work.... they can release the album 5 different jackets, 5 different sets of bonus tracks... maybe they should start releasing the "non compressed to shit" version as well...

07-05-2007, 06:10 AM	#34
T&T Socialphobic Location: montreal Posts: 11,679	then get me a f**king SACD of my pumpkins albums.....

07-05-2007, 07:36 AM	#35
teh b0lly!!1 Braindead Location: PROWLING THE BADLANDS Posts: 17,399	man, thats hideous to look at. i cant believe professional record producers murder music this way, intentionally. when recording my own shit i stay away from clipping like i stay away from fucking fire. also, this is the most worthwhile discussion that has been on this board for a long while. edit: some posts got crammed between Rider's pictures and my comment, obviously i meant those soundwave pictures

07-05-2007, 07:37 AM	#36
mccririck Apocalyptic Poster Location: Spa Posts: 3,884	Some good mastering engineers: Steve Hoffman - www.stevehoffman.tv Doug Schwartz Steve Hall Bob Ludwig is good most of the time. perhaps Beck wanted that to clip.

07-05-2007, 08:22 AM	#42
Rider Minion of Satan Location: I was born a snake handler, and I'll die a snake handler Posts: 9,517	http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/9469/untitledil6.jpg Like I said... By the way that's just the first track I looked at the others are actually worse.

07-05-2007, 08:24 AM	#43
mccririck Apocalyptic Poster Location: Spa Posts: 3,884	That looks evil

07-05-2007, 08:26 AM	#44
brendo_91 Minion of Satan Location: ██████████ Posts: 6,476	rider - what song is that? also, is it actually clipping - i.e. lots of samples in a row at 0dBFS, or is it just very compressed? i haven't bothered to look yet, and won't until i have the album in my hands, if at all.

07-05-2007, 08:28 AM	#45
Rider Minion of Satan Location: I was born a snake handler, and I'll die a snake handler Posts: 9,517	http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/3609/untitledjb0.jpg Really someone who has mastered some dozens of the greatest albums of all time shiting on hislegacy to make money. Really I would just let them blacklist me.

07-05-2007, 10:36 AM	#51
ivor Pledge Posts: 61	Videos that explain this stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkkqsN69Jac I'm sure Howie Weinberg is just doing what Billy wants. They have to approve the mastering before they start pressing copies. This is the reason that Ludwig is all over the map -- sometimes he does good work (e.g., the Sam Cooke remasters in 2003) and sometimes compresses stuff severely. By the way, I noticed that the promo single of Tarantula is less compressed than the song on the (leaked) retail album.

07-05-2007, 02:22 PM	#59
mccririck Apocalyptic Poster Location: Spa Posts: 3,884	Some SACDs are mastered better than others, too.