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Old 12-27-2018, 08:50 PM   #1
johncg
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Default Is Billy Corgan really THAT bad?

Okay so I know this is Netphoria. And I don’t want to spoil the party. We all come here to vent our frustrations over Billy’s tendency to do things that make publicly admitting our SP fandom absolutely excruciating, and that’s cool.

But I do often wonder: are we too hard on old Bill?

He had an incredibly difficult, traumatic childhood. I’m no genius but I do know a thing or two from working in mental health for many years. And I can honestly say that many people with backgrounds similar to Billy’s end up in far, far worse condition. Someone with the kind of early childhood trauma and attachment injuries that Billy has (and their attendant compensatory behaviors and personality characteristics) could very easily have ended up leaving a huge trail of destruction throughout their life.

And while I don’t know Billy personally, he does seem to be a person who has at least made the best out of having been dealt a bad hand. He has transformed his pain into art that many people love. He has created a successful career for himself and now has what appears to be a reasonably healthy family. He has SURVIVED without become a drug addict or killing himself. Honestly, for someone who has lived a life like Billy’s? Just SURVIVING is heroic.

He does seem to be pretty strongly lacking in empathy at times and he does seem to have hurt or alienated a lot of people. But he’s still going. He hasn’t killed anyone or ended up in jail or dead or on drugs. He has his music career and his family and he at least makes an effort to be a good human being......RIGHT?

I don’t know. I go back and forth on this.

Thoughts?

 
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Old 12-27-2018, 08:59 PM   #2
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PS I wanted to make this a poll with “YES HE IS” and “NO HES NOT” as options. Can a mod perhaps edit to add that? Thanks

 
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Old 12-27-2018, 09:02 PM   #3
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No, he's not that bad. The issue I think for Netphoria is we all thought he was a really good person at one time and he turned out to not be, almost to the point where it feels like he's a different person. He has some really big issues with people and relationships, obviously. And as someone with a traumatic childhood I can empathize with relating issues after trauma from the people who were supposed to love you. But he's objectively done some pretty shitty things, and his platform as a famous person makes it easy to project feelings for all of the people who do those shitty things onto him.

 
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Old 12-27-2018, 09:03 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johncg View Post
PS I wanted to make this a poll with “YES HE IS” and “NO HES NOT” as options. Can a mod perhaps edit to add that? Thanks
I don't know how but I'll try to figure it out.

 
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Old 12-27-2018, 09:04 PM   #5
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and it's not just that he is a bad person who hurts others. in addition to that he happens to be stupid and affected and shallow... and, most importantly, his success went to his head and caused him to lose his muse. he is rich and uninspired. bleurgh!

 
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Old 12-27-2018, 09:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johncg View Post
PS I wanted to make this a poll with “YES HE IS” and “NO HES NOT” as options. Can a mod perhaps edit to add that? Thanks
Pretty sure I can't, has to be an admin.

 
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Old 12-27-2018, 09:07 PM   #7
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PAGING RAM27

 
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Old 12-27-2018, 09:13 PM   #8
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I think a lot of the times we are, but at the end of the day it comes down to the music. It's mostly the music that makes people bag on him and in that regard it's undeniable that he's had a massive artistic downgrade over the last 20 years.

 
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Old 12-27-2018, 09:47 PM   #9
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I think a lot of the times we are, but at the end of the day it comes down to the music. It's mostly the music that makes people bag on him and in that regard it's undeniable that he's had a massive artistic downgrade over the last 20 years.
I was listening to some old school Pumpkins songs on youtube today while at work. I have it on a playlist. After awhile, it starts playing recommended songs. One of the songs that came on was Travels. Me being mostly focused on the work I was doing, I wasn't trying to like it or overthink the song. It made the listening experience a lot better. The song actually sounded good and when you are focused on something else, it wasn't over repetitive either.

Point is, I think we try and force ourselves to like new music and it always has a negative effect. It's not on purpose, it's just an involulatry response that happens.

 
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Old 12-27-2018, 10:10 PM   #10
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That's a good point. I will say, Ogilala sounds like something that would be nice to have on in the background quietly while one is reading a book or from their kindle.

As far as Shiny goes, I do think Travels is probably the 2nd best song on the release. It has potential but was sorta executed badly in the studio. I think the band should've just released one song and then recorded the new music after the tour. Take a song like Solara, it's terrible on record but by the end of the tour it sounded a lot better once the band had time to flesh it out a bit.

Just another example of Billy shooting himself in the foot I guess. Dude needs to learn that patience is a virtue.

 
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Old 12-27-2018, 11:42 PM   #11
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The song actually sounded good and when you are focused on something else...


 
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Old 12-28-2018, 06:34 AM   #12
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I like to listen to it while operating my table saw.

 
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Old 12-28-2018, 06:42 AM   #13
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He's not as good as we thought, probably not as bad as he sometimes appears, but could be much worse than we know.

 
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Old 12-28-2018, 07:16 AM   #14
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Crap. He used to be a rockstar 20 years ago.
Now it' sjust embarrassing when i see him missing 3 outta 4 notes while stumbeling around on stage dressed up like an asshole.

 
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Old 12-28-2018, 10:43 AM   #15
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I actually liked his crazy get-up during the run of shows featuring the KROQ and Kimmel appearances. Kind of looks like some sort of Scientology high-priest. The only thing lame is the stupid face-paint

 
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Old 12-28-2018, 01:07 PM   #16
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He legitimately loves kitties

Can't be all terrible

 
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Old 12-28-2018, 01:15 PM   #17
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Crap. He used to be a rockstar 20 years ago.
Now it' sjust embarrassing when i see him missing 3 outta 4 notes while stumbeling around on stage dressed up like an asshole.
Omg brothacock! You seem to be on fire again.
I still feel ashamed when watching this kimmelshow when bully starts singing silvery.

He was never a good singer but this performanc was embarrassing as hell.

Why machina reissue when 123 bootlegs are around, when many differentversions are around and even machina demos are circulating on the net too.

Spend those 150 bucks for people who really need it.

Btw: i put oceania, monuments and zeitgeiat on ebay for 4 dollars ea h, but still noone wants to buy it.
So pumpkins are dead

 
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Old 12-28-2018, 01:29 PM   #18
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it's embarrassing to admit to SP fandom as an adult because their 90's music

nobody has ever heard or given a shit about any of the antics

 
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Old 12-28-2018, 01:38 PM   #19
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Embarrassing how? What adult actually gives a shit what other adults listen to in their own free time?

 
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Old 12-28-2018, 01:43 PM   #20
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Talking

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Old 12-28-2018, 01:45 PM   #21
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OP mentioned publically announcing a fandom of SP to be embarrassing

so ask him

 
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Old 12-28-2018, 01:48 PM   #22
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he also made it sound like bad ppl commit suicide or get addicted to drugs.

most survivors, particularly the "heroic" ones, are total dickheads. imo.

 
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Old 12-28-2018, 01:56 PM   #23
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Nothing worse than a dry drunk, in my experience.

 
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Old 12-28-2018, 02:01 PM   #24
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who says billy's dry? i bet that fucker still does drugs. how else you could explain monuments and riding rainbows and wishing treez?

 
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Old 12-28-2018, 02:01 PM   #25
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not to mention obelisks hewn in the shade of manchu pichu!

 
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Old 12-28-2018, 03:35 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolofaTook View Post
he also made it sound like bad ppl commit suicide or get addicted to drugs.

most survivors, particularly the "heroic" ones, are total dickheads. imo.
Not sure what you’re getting at or whether you’re being sarcastic but I’ll bite:

People with traumatic childhood experiences are at greatly increased risk of addiction, self-harm, and suicide. There’s very strong empirical support for that idea. They are also likely to have some rough edges around their personality that can make them total dickheads. No doubt. When I use the word “bad” it’s really more of a rhetorical hyperbolic “hey I’m on netphoria lol” kind of thing. I try to always see the best in people. I’ve sat across from violent offenders and genuinely believed they were nice people deep down. Very often they are! Labels like good and bad are very insufficient for describing human beings.

Etc

Last edited by johncg : 12-28-2018 at 03:43 PM.

 
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Old 12-28-2018, 03:42 PM   #27
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Embarrassing how? What adult actually gives a shit what other adults listen to in their own free time?
Cmon this is netphoria. Would you go on pornhub and get all morally superior about “adults who actually give a shit about watching other people have sex.” We care about our fandom and we have strong opinions about music or we wouldn’t be here.

 
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Old 12-28-2018, 04:05 PM   #28
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...we?

 
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Old 12-28-2018, 04:14 PM   #29
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They say "don't meet your heroes", wise words which Billy doesn't heed when he makes himself impossible not to meet, at least vicariously through social media.

Joe Rogan even told him he'd evaluate Billy's music differently if he didn't know Billy as a person. I wish I could hear the new album and know nothing about Billy's non-music life, but ya cant put the genie back in the toothpaste.

 
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Old 12-28-2018, 04:59 PM   #30
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They say "don't meet your heroes", wise words which Billy doesn't heed when he makes himself impossible not to meet, at least vicariously through social media.

Joe Rogan even told him he'd evaluate Billy's music differently if he didn't know Billy as a person. I wish I could hear the new album and know nothing about Billy's non-music life, but ya cant put the genie back in the toothpaste.

I hear you. Musicians are very often deeply wounded people. And deeply wounded people can be difficult to be around.

I seriously them though. And in a lot of ways I’m no different.


 
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