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12-06-2017, 10:28 PM | #391 | |
BOTTLEG ILLEGAL
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Quote:
here's a summary, we were both sorta right: http://www.intropsych.com/ch15_socia...issonance.html people do a lot to assuage cognitive dissonance but i don't think that's where you were trying to go. something like backwards inference |
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12-06-2017, 10:40 PM | #392 | ||
Just Hook it to My Veins!
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Quote:
Quote:
This woman was pretty mature for her age, but I did start to feel an age difference the more time we spent together. At one point we were exchanging stories about hard break ups, and I told about my ex who I dated for four years. Her longest relationship was like 9 months or something. Not that it's a competition, but I think our relationship experiences were just kind of different and I would probably be better off with someone a little more similar. Funny how now, being socialist polyamarous weed jews seems like surface level stuff good news is, the other woman I have been seeing is 26. she's doing disaster relief work rn though and won't be back for a few more weeks I sometimes wonder if everything we do is like this. The universe is deterministic so maybe we just act based on the forces around us and then explain those actions to ourselves later |
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12-06-2017, 11:12 PM | #393 |
Minion of Satan
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Well, if the universe is deterministic, then not only our actions, but our feelings about our actions, would be predetermined. And if that's the case, there's no reason why the intermediary cause of our actions couldn't still be the same internal mental states and attitudes that we later ascribe the actions to. So, regardless of whether or not the universe is deterministic, we're left with the same problem.
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12-06-2017, 11:17 PM | #394 | |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
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Quote:
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12-06-2017, 11:17 PM | #395 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
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I do accept determinism as my lord and saviour
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12-06-2017, 11:18 PM | #396 |
BOTTLEG ILLEGAL
Location: I'm faced with so many changes that I just might change my face
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you explained that very well, dk. if everything is deterministic than everything is deterministic, including our discussion of determinism. it should be humbling to realize this. if everything is determined than none of us is really better than anyone else
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12-06-2017, 11:37 PM | #397 |
Braindead
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could there be a degree of determinism?
like, for the outcome to be prescribed and set in stone, but that there are several mildly different ways to get there? i've been going fucking crazy these past two weeks reading articles about the universe i think i'm gonna lose it |
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12-06-2017, 11:44 PM | #398 |
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I know a lot of people like the idea of soft determinism because it seems to admit what we know is probably true while holding on to the idea that we can make decisions and have free will
But I think that's just a cop out. Hard determinism it is. The universe is a math equation and iamsixyearsold |
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12-06-2017, 11:52 PM | #399 |
Socialphobic
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Took's mom likes a lil soft determinism.
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12-06-2017, 11:53 PM | #400 |
Minion of Satan
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When the present determines the future, but the approximate present does not approximately determine the future.
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12-06-2017, 11:57 PM | #401 |
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12-07-2017, 12:21 AM | #402 |
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Chaos theory and random mutation make hard determinism seem impossible.
Not that either of those things affect our capacity for free will. But is there really some ultimate chain of events stretching back forever where you can trace one thing being the result of a previous thing? It seems as though there have been some interruptions. |
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12-07-2017, 12:23 AM | #403 |
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12-07-2017, 12:23 AM | #404 |
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12-07-2017, 12:23 AM | #405 |
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12-07-2017, 12:25 AM | #406 | |
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Quote:
everything that is happening, will happen, or has ever happened is the direct unfolding cause-and-effect chain reaction of the First Cause |
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12-07-2017, 12:45 AM | #407 |
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I'm probably remembering incorrectly. I remember quantum chaos type events that can't be predicted by prior conditions, which indicated that while at many levels hard determinism holds, ultimately speaking, it does not.
I'm so old there is probably new evidence available since I was at uni, which shows conclusively that hard determinism holds in all situations. |
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12-07-2017, 12:52 AM | #408 | |
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I know a lot of physicists think it's more likely that what is happening is a problem with our ability to observe and not actual indeterminism though |
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12-07-2017, 12:56 AM | #409 |
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Location: I'm faced with so many changes that I just might change my face
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i do believe in teh_b0lly's degree of determinism thing. yes things are determined, but not every little thing has to be exactly the same for a determined conclusion to happen. the question then is where is that line. like if subatomic particles don't have to act deterministically and don't interrupt determinism, is it only subatomic particles? aren't we as insignificant as subatomic particles on a certain scale?
Last edited by reprise85 : 12-07-2017 at 12:58 AM. Reason: edit nevermind rbg brought it up already |
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12-07-2017, 12:57 AM | #410 |
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I see the appeal of that, but ultimately I can't help but think it's just a way to hold onto the illusion of free will. science suggests a totally deterministic universe
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12-07-2017, 01:22 AM | #411 |
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Location: I'm faced with so many changes that I just might change my face
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care to source that?
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12-07-2017, 01:35 AM | #412 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
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I can look up something later, but I know for certain that indeterminism has never been observed above the subatomic level. So any argument against hard determinism has to assume 1) that observed indeterminism is accurate and not a problem with our ability to detect causes and observe at this level and 2) indeterminism is occurring on a larger level even if it has never been detected
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12-07-2017, 01:37 AM | #413 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
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my biggest road block with the wiggle room determinism idea though is that it seems predicated on the concept that some events are "bigger" or "more important" than others. Maybe this is not exactly what you mean, but a lot of people I have discussed this with previously like the idea popularized in movies and tv that big life changing events are set in stone but the series leading up to them can be altered (Final Destination timeline physics with a course-correcting universe is a good example). But the universe and physical laws do not differentiate between an event like your death and a random molecule of your skin blowing away in the wind. these are human divisions
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12-07-2017, 01:58 AM | #414 |
BOTTLEG ILLEGAL
Location: I'm faced with so many changes that I just might change my face
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ah but death is not an event, it is comprised of many molecular changes/events. still you have a good point, and i'm sure if we got down to it we could find many events in a molecule of skin blowing away as well. i guess in a way these "bigger" things are triggered once some kind of threshold is reached, for example enough tissue dies in your heart and it stops beating. or enough blood drains out of you that your blood pressure can no longer be sustained at all and then it stops and then your brain stops getting oxygen since it is not getting blood and your brain eventually dies after a few minutes.
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12-07-2017, 02:06 AM | #415 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
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although honestly who knows apparently we all live in a hologram projected from a black hole or something
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12-07-2017, 01:40 PM | #416 |
Braindead
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well duh
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12-07-2017, 03:24 PM | #417 |
Braindead
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I mean even if it's predetermined it's still meaningless, so
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12-10-2017, 12:18 AM | #418 |
Apocalyptic Poster
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A friend of mine gave me a bottle of wine
A true friend respect me drinking |
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12-10-2017, 12:20 AM | #419 |
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No wine
no weed no sex listening to burzum |
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12-10-2017, 12:36 AM | #420 |
Apocalyptic Poster
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