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Old 10-26-2011, 01:00 PM   #1
MyOneAndOnly
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Default Conservative Push to Outlaw Birth Control

Personhood laws on deck across the country?

http://www.salon.com/2011/10/26/the_...birth_control/

Quote:
That’s partly because the Personhood movement hopes to do nothing less than reclassify everyday, routine birth control as abortion. The medical definition of pregnancy is when a fertilized egg successfully implants in the uterine wall. If this initiative passes, and fertilized eggs on their own have full legal rights, anything that could potentially block that implantation – something a woman’s body does naturally all the time – could be considered murder.
these laws would also grant personhood to embryos in IVF labs.

 
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:05 PM   #2
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yuck

 
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:07 PM   #3
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So fringe movement = conservative movement?

Nimrod shut the first thread you made down for a reason, you tard.

 
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:18 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by JokeyLoki View Post
So fringe movement = conservative movement?

Nimrod shut the first thread you made down for a reason, you tard.
Personhood laws are supported by all the major Republican candidates for president, including Cain, Romney and Perry. The prinicple (life begins at inception) is also codified in the platform of the republican party.

 
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:29 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by scottytheoneand View Post
Personhood laws are supported by all the major Republican candidates for president, including Cain, Romney and Perry. The prinicple (life begins at inception) is also codified in the platform of the republican party.
Did you mean: life begins at conception

http://commentarytrack.files.wordpre.../inception.jpg

 
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:31 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son View Post
Did you mean:[color="Blue"] life begins at conception
You may be a total douche bag, but That IS funny.

at least I didn't type "insertion"

 
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Old 10-26-2011, 07:01 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by JokeyLoki View Post
So fringe movement = conservative movement?

Nimrod shut the first thread you made down for a reason, you tard.
the movement is conservative regardless of whether it is a "fringe movement" or not. In fact, it is as conservative is you can get... it's reactionary because it seeks to go backwards.

 
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Old 10-26-2011, 07:03 PM   #8
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Every sperm is sacred... because Jesus.

 
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Old 10-26-2011, 08:46 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
the movement is conservative regardless of whether it is a "fringe movement" or not. In fact, it is as conservative is you can get... it's reactionary because it seeks to go backwards.
Sorry, I worded that badly. What I meant was that it's fringe, and doesn't represent the conservative movement as a whole, just like fringe lunatic liberal movements don't represent the liberal movement as a whole.. Sure, most conservatives are pro-life, but that doesn't mean they're anti-birth control.

 
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Old 10-26-2011, 10:48 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
the movement is conservative regardless of whether it is a "fringe movement" or not. In fact, it is as conservative is you can get... it's reactionary because it seeks to go backwards.
Or is it progressive, as abortion was legal in the 16th century?

 
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Old 10-26-2011, 11:15 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son View Post
Or is it progressive, as abortion was legal in the 16th century?
um

what

Quote:
The earliest mentions of abortion in our written texts reflect the interests of class and caste. Fines are listed in the Code of Hammurabi, ca. 1760 BC, for the crime of causing a miscarriage through assault, with the amount varying according to the social rank of the prospective mother.[80][81] The Vedic and smrti laws of India reflect a concern with preserving the male seed of the three upper castes; and the religious courts imposed various penances for the woman or excommunication for a priest who provided an abortion.[82]
While abortion is not mentioned in the Greek and Roman laws, an inference can be made from the laws mandating infanticide for children born deformed, suggesting a state interest in the "fitness" of its citizens.[83] In 211 AD, at the intersection of the reigns of Septimius Severus and Caracalla, abortion was outlawed for a period of time to protect the rights of the father, with the punishment being by temporary exile.[64]
In the West, ecclesiastical courts dealt with the matter of abortion, which was viewed as a moral issue and dealt with in Ecclesiastical courts, which treated abortion of an "unformed fetus" (prior to quickening) as quasi-homicide, imposing a lesser penance than for full homicide.


1551- Sir Edward Coke formulates the "born alive rule", calling abortion "a great misprision and no murder".
1765– William Blackstone confirms the "born alive rule" calling abortion "a very heinous misdemeanor".[87]
1803– United Kingdom enacts the Malicious Shooting or Stabbing Act 1803, making abortion after quickening a capital crime, and providing lesser penalties for the felony of abortion before quickening.[88]
1821– Connecticut passes first statute that forbids using poison to induce miscarriages.[89]
1842– The Shogunate in Japan bans induced abortion in Edo. The law does not affect the rest of the country.[32]
1861– The Parliament of the United Kingdom passes the Offences against the Person Act 1861, which outlaws abortion.
1869– Pope Pius IX declared that abortion under any circumstance was gravely immoral (mortal sin), and, that anyone who participated in an abortion in any material way had by virtue of that act excommunicated themselves (latae sententiae) from the Church. In the same year, the Parliament of Canada unifies criminal law in all provinces, banning abortion.[90]
1820–1900– Primarily through the efforts of physicians in the American Medical Association and legislators, most abortions in the U.S. were outlawed.[91]
1873– The passage of the Comstock Law in the United States makes it a crime to sell, distribute, or own abortion-related products and services, or to publish information on how to obtain them (see advertisement of abortion services).[92]

 
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Old 10-26-2011, 11:26 PM   #12
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and where exactly are you referring to that it was legal in the 16th century?

also why would that be relevant to abortion laws today considering technology and medical procedures have advanced so much in the last 500 years?

you've been trolling most of today though so eh i don't care.

 
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:45 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son View Post
Or is it progressive, as abortion was legal in the 16th century?
depends on how big your frame of reference is, but only a contrarian dick eater like yourself would use the 16th century as a starting point on this issue against the vast majority cultural consensus which would look at abortion within the window of the last 150 years or so, being related to other women's health, body, and rights issues in the West

 
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:46 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Eulogy View Post
um

what
we were talking about the US numbnuts, who cares what the Romans did?

OK so I was wrong about the 16th century, it actually wasn't illegal until the 19th century. thanks for helping my argument.

 
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:54 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son View Post
we were talking about the US numbnuts, who cares what the Romans did?

OK so I was wrong about the 16th century, it actually wasn't illegal until the 19th century. thanks for helping my argument.
it wasn't legal either. it was the 1800s. and we relied on english common law (as described in detail by blackstone) to form our laws. and it was outlawed there.

are you retarded

 
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:10 PM   #16
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This is like saying the invalidation of statutes that criminalize consensual homosexual sodomy is regressive because said statutes weren't around until relatively recently.

I hope for your sake you are trolling.

But hey nim, do you think abortion should be illegal? I know the pope says so and you're Catholic... but I wanna double check.

 
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Old 10-27-2011, 01:40 PM   #17
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when is Nimrod NOT trolling? He puts up 100+ posts a day and every one of them is useless.



Conservatives are attempting to outlaw contraception. The media is virtually ignoring it, and when they do cover it they borrow the talking points and framing of the issue directly from the right wingnutz.

What's going to happen to pregnant women who go out of state (from Mississippi) to receive an abortion? Is the State going to charge them child abduction and attempt to put them on trial for murder?

The intent of these laws is to FORCE lawsuits in federal court and give the Supreme Court a basis for overturning Roe and replacing it with a ruling that recognizes personhood at the point of conception. THEN, no laws will be needed either at a Federal Level or a State Level. And the Congress will not be able to act against it. It would take a constitutional amendment OR a subsequent SCOTUS ruling to relegalize birth control and abortion services.

 
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Old 10-27-2011, 01:44 PM   #18
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dude... outlawing contraception would be SO unpopular with anyone who isn't a religious zealot that I can't really fathom the Republican party having a motive to do so due to the number of votes they would lose


unlike, for example, decreasing taxes on corporations which the conservative working class is for some reason ok with. or socialized healthcare. those are easier to trick people about. but every working class person knows what happens when you get a chick knocked up and there isn't really a way to spin that unless you think god will send you to hell for having sex. which represents a relatively small portion of the population

 
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Old 10-27-2011, 01:59 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by killtrocity View Post
dude... outlawing contraception would be SO unpopular with anyone who isn't a religious zealot that I can't really fathom the Republican party having a motive to do so due to the number of votes they would lose

 
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Old 10-27-2011, 02:01 PM   #20
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the point is that there are plenty of zealots in mississippi. and some other states.

so this is actually pretty important.

 
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Old 10-27-2011, 02:15 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by killtrocity View Post
dude... outlawing contraception would be SO unpopular with anyone who isn't a religious zealot that I can't really fathom the Republican party having a motive to do so due to the number of votes they would lose
If you believe in the goals and principles of Right To Life, you wouldn't care what the consequences are politically.

I doubt the republican party would get much political flack at all. Their core supporters LOVE this shit.

It would be the Supreme Court that makes it happen. Not congress. Not the president. Who are you gonna "punish" politically if you live in Chicago or Portland when 5 right wingers appointed by now "retired" presidents take away your birth control and your right to reproductive services?

there's a reason that a relative moderate like Bush 1 appointed a maniac like Thomas to the court. Cause it was damanded of him by the wingnut republican base, and justices like thomas can do things that elected officials can't.

 
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Old 10-27-2011, 03:09 PM   #22
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I don't think anyone is gonna take away our condoms. Nor is the government going to take away the guns from the tea party fanatic who buried them in his backyard

 
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Old 10-27-2011, 04:20 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by scottytheoneand View Post
If you believe in the goals and principles of Right To Life, you wouldn't care what the consequences are politically.

I doubt the republican party would get much political flack at all. Their core supporters LOVE this shit.

It would be the Supreme Court that makes it happen. Not congress. Not the president. Who are you gonna "punish" politically if you live in Chicago or Portland when 5 right wingers appointed by now "retired" presidents take away your birth control and your right to reproductive services?

there's a reason that a relative moderate like Bush 1 appointed a maniac like Thomas to the court. Cause it was damanded of him by the wingnut republican base, and justices like thomas can do things that elected officials can't.
are you retarded

there is no way the US supreme court makes birth control illegal. jesus.

but i will say i do fear what could happen if the next appointment is a republican one when it comes to abortion rights. but the states that want to make it illegal have made it so fucking difficult to get already that i'm not sure it would make that much of a difference. but still.

ugh.

 
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Old 10-27-2011, 04:59 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Eulogy View Post
are you retarded

there is no way the US supreme court makes birth control illegal. jesus.

but i will say i do fear what could happen if the next appointment is a republican one when it comes to abortion rights. but the states that want to make it illegal have made it so fucking difficult to get already that i'm not sure it would make that much of a difference. but still.

ugh.
they dont' have to specifically rule that birth control is illegal. they only need to issue a ruling that supports the proposition that "life" begins at conception.

Why the fuck do you think that people like Thomas, Scalia, etc. wouldn't do that? Those guys are hard core right to lifers. All the repubican appointees since Bush 1 were chosen because they do NOT support Roe.

if SCOTUS rules that life begins at conception, then birth control (the kind women take daily, which prevents implantation of fertilized eggs and is the same drug that's in the morning after pill) would be illegal. Anything that caused the death of a fertizied egg would have to be illegal.

I'm not talking about rubbers.


Jesus Christ, this is the country that allowed people to own other people for 180 years! the country that outlawed alcohol and was one of the last Western democracies to allow women the right to vote. The country that has no universal health care system and allows it's state governments to execute people.

If you think that 5 people on the Court simply won't rule that way, you have a whole lot more faith in those SOBs than I do.

 
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:02 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by scottytheoneand View Post
Why the fuck do you think that people like Thomas, Scalia, etc. wouldn't overturn Roe? Those guys are hard core right to lifers.
oh my god you idiot i know that they would

they would not overrule eisenstadt or griswold though. so birth control is safe. jesus.

Quote:
if SCOTUS rules that life begins at conception,
it won't. and roe has nothing to do with that.

Quote:
then birth control (the kind women take daily, which prevents implantation of fertilized eggs and is the same drug that's in the morning after pill) would be illegal. Anything that caused the death of a fertizied egg would have to be illegal.

I'm not talking about rubbers.
see above.


Quote:
Jesus Christ, this is the country that allowed people to own other people for 180 years! the country that outlawed alcohol and was one of the last Western democracies to allow women the right to vote. The country that has no universal health care system and allows it's state governments to execute people.

If you think that 5 people on the Court simply won't rule that way, you have a whole lot more faith in those SOBs than I do. Especially since at least 5 of them were put on the court specifically to overturn Roe.
those five have had the opportunity to overrule roe and haven't. and only 3 have been appointed by either bush. so.

we're fine unless the next appointment is by a republican.

here's all you need to know: Kennedy joined with the opinion in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned...thood_v._Casey

his is the only vote that matters. so. you don't know what you're talking about.

Last edited by Eulogy : 10-27-2011 at 05:12 PM.

 
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:11 PM   #26
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Sometimes I think Eulogy is the only sane person around here.

 
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:11 PM   #27
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the next one will be by Romney. it'll be the first LDS member of the Supreme Court.

 
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:11 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by JokeyLoki View Post
Sometimes I think Eulogy is the only sane person around here.
that would leave you out, so you might be right.

 
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:13 PM   #29
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so are you going to admit you were wrong or what

 
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:18 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Eulogy View Post
are you retarded

there is no way the US supreme court makes birth control illegal. jesus.

but i will say i do fear what could happen if the next appointment is a republican one when it comes to abortion rights. but the states that want to make it illegal have made it so fucking difficult to get already that i'm not sure it would make that much of a difference. but still.

ugh.
See, this is a rational concern. Abortion is still a subject of much controversy, as opposed to contraception where people sort of putatively go to the gas station to buy condoms

 
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