'Monuments' sound better acoustic?

[trevorbrooks]

http://i.imgur.com/OXMWo0c.png

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By4...ew?usp=sharing

I've seen more than a few people say, generally, SP2 songs sound better pre-studio wizardry. Just wondering how many truly agree with this, and for what songs in particular. For me, this set proves both Being Beige and Dorian (esp) are really good acoustic. I'm not sure I'd say they're better.

[slunken]

BC always sounds better acoustic at his age.

One and All is a great riff.

[trevorbrooks]

Originally Posted by slunken

One and All is a great riff.

yeah i especially noticed this after listening to this set, but didn't someone say it was a ripoff of something from Mellon Collie?

[slunken]

It sounds similar to that era but personally I can't pinpoint it to anything on the album. If anything its a mix between 1979 and WBFTT and that's just reaching from a guitar players POV.

I'm a fan of these MTAE acoustic radio promo gigs.

[Ram27]

Isn't it a straight copy of the Viper? or is that Tiberius?

[slunken]

oh you're right it does sound like the viper

[slunken]

[redbreegull]

BC's songs sounding better live is a trend that started in the late 90s.

[trevorbrooks]

Yeah, definitely taken from Viper. But it's not like the song was ever officially released (in full form) on an album, so I see no problem with it. Wish BC would take a page from Weezer, Bowie, Radiohead, etc. and not shy away from reworking old material to make good albums.

[slunken]

i still think it's obvious that the wellspring of zwan material was a huge back-catalog of old material

[trevorbrooks]

why do you say that?

[slunken]

guy burst out with like 80 songs within a year of the band "forming" - makes sense a lot of them would have been songs written but not suitable for pumpkins. presented them with a new band and made them work. the math makes sense.

most artists write other material that they don't feel is suitable for their current band so they usually shelve it until they have another project to release it under. that was the problem with TFE - BC blew his back-wad with zwan.

[trevorbrooks]

ahhhh, makes sense. i enjoy a few songs off TFE, tho. Now and Then is great.

[slunken]

billy's tfe is the equivalent of neil young's shocking pinks record imo - its an older artist trying to make an album from his childhood memories.

neil - 50s rock
billy - 80s new wave

it's the ultimate vanity

[trevorbrooks]

is it really 80's new wave, tho? it's heavily electronic

[BurtSampson]

Originally Posted by trevorbrooks

is it really 80's new wave, tho? it's heavily electronic

Do you know what new wave is

[slunken]

that's his influence. electronic 80s british new wave which was yes heavily electronic

not so much the american stuff like the cars. i guess maybe i should have said "electro" but that term wasn't coined until the 00's

[slunken]

Originally Posted by BurtSampson

Do you know what new wave is

to be fair, most american "new wave" bands were basically electro-pop, 3-piece power pop setup with a synth player and all the right clothes

[trevorbrooks]

yeah i was really thinking of american stuff, then. what's a quintessential new wave band that influenced BC? (I mean, I know New Order and stuff like that, but, again, not super electronic...)

[slunken]

Originally Posted by trevorbrooks

yeah i was really thinking of american stuff, then. what's a quintessential new wave band that influenced BC? (I mean, I know New Order and stuff like that, but, again, not super electronic...)

Missing Persons might be a good example, because they were a new wave band with a phenom drummer. What you have to remember about TFE is that it was a guitar based album, it was just heavily processed. Look to the live videos for clues.

[grape]

Originally Posted by slunken

guy burst out with like 80 songs within a year of the band "forming" - makes sense a lot of them would have been songs written but not suitable for pumpkins. presented them with a new band and made them work. the math makes sense.

most artists write other material that they don't feel is suitable for their current band so they usually shelve it until they have another project to release it under. that was the problem with TFE - BC blew his back-wad with zwan.

This argument isn't necessarily wrong but I don't really think it's true.

Billy was writing 100+ songs a year from '93-'00. Unless he wrote most of the Zwan songs during the Sacred and Profane tour I don't see how it adds up. If you think about it, there was almost a year between the dissolution of the Pumpkins and the first Zwan show. At that time there were about 15 songs. Another 6 months later and they did the Djali Zwan shows, which was probably another 25 songs, and then the last pre-Mary Star set of songs was another 15 or so towars the end of 2002. Then they took a break and went into the studio and ended up with about 10 new songs for the album. This is about the same as writing for Mellon Collie starting at the end of 1994, and then putting out 56 total songs (plus pastichio medley which was another 50 ideas for riffs and differing states of music between fresh ideas and nearing complete songs), plus the Ransom soundtrack, Starchildren songs, unreleased demo songs (another 20 or so Mellon Collie era songs probably).

Or take Adore. Look at the re-issue boxset. During a year and a half long period there were (I don't want to go count) probably 50 songs. Then by 2000, Billy had finished Machina I and II and written songs with Courtney Love and Rick Ocasek and put out the Stigmata soundtrack. The dude has just always been prolific.

It's possible some of the Zwan stuff started being written before the Metro show, but I don't see why the hypothesis is necessary to explain the output. I think being around a new proficient guitarist (Sweeney) really excited him about writing and made him go in a new direction.

[slunken]

Originally Posted by grape

This argument isn't necessarily wrong but I don't really think it's true.

Billy was writing 100+ songs a year from '93-'00.

stops reading

[slunken]

explain "endless summer"

[redbreegull]

Zwan songs mostly being a backlog is an interesting theory but I don't see any reason to think it's more likely than BC wrote them contemporaneously. he writes songs like a craft. He probably writes songs every day. Imagine how many thousands of songs he has written or started that got canned before he ever even brought them to his bandmates or recorded a demo. MCIS + TAFH + all the songs from PM which we only got little snippets of + MCIS era demos... I mean how many fucking songs is that?

[reprise85]

I wonder how my life would have been if I didn't have this place relentlessly and constantly reminding me how my teenage idol is a shitty person for the past 10 years

somehow i think it would have turned out differently. probably worse. definitely different.

[redbreegull]

Idolizing Billy Corgan and then eventually learning to appreciate the work he did at one point while admitting to myself that I disdain who he is now was an important lesson for me in growing up.

[run2pee]

Originally Posted by trevorbrooks

http://i.imgur.com/OXMWo0c.png

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By4...ew?usp=sharing

I've seen more than a few people say, generally, SP2 songs sound better pre-studio wizardry. Just wondering how many truly agree with this, and for what songs in particular. For me, this set proves both Being Beige and Dorian (esp) are really good acoustic. I'm not sure I'd say they're better.

Dorian sounds like gorgeous cumcastles on the record, it's only track that's motivated me to even give monuments a spin here and there

Being Beige continues to bore me straight to F, just can't get into it, but I agree it's marginally more interesting acoustic

That shot of bill stalking the darkness in blazer with acoustic is the best look on modern bill, IMO

[run2pee]

Originally Posted by reprise85

I wonder how my life would have been if I didn't have this place relentlessly and constantly reminding me how my teenage idol is a shitty person for the past 10 years

somehow i think it would have turned out differently. probably worse. definitely different.

Before I found and started reading netphoria I had to carry around in my own tiny brain for years and years the sad lonely knowledge that my teenage hero had turned into a shithead. For the simple fact that none of my friends cared enough for SP to be aware of what had happened. For me it's a relief and true catharsis to be able to share this regret with other real fans

In fact I read old threads all the time just cause there's so much I missed and didn't get to talk to anyone about

[reprise85]

I did that several years ago when I was extremely depressed and addicted to drugs and stayed home all day. I probably read every fucking thread. More interested in general chat though.

Ah, the days I searched for "drugs" just to read threads about them on netphoria. and "suicide"

[trevorbrooks]

Originally Posted by Run To Me

That shot of bill stalking the darkness in blazer with acoustic is the best look on modern bill, IMO

agreed, the moment I saw it i had to use it to make that cover artwork for myself so i could have some sort of visual when i put the acoustic set on my devices (mild OCD/possible autism, i know). if he had a goatee and a cowboy hat it would be very garth brooks-esque, though.

also, completley agree on Dorian. easily the best track on Monuments even if somewhat repetitive. wish he'd explore that sound more.