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Old 09-20-2018, 07:41 AM   #1261
RenewRevive
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I don't know why you guys think Adore wasn't planned like MCIS etc. Corgan was banging on how MCIS would be the last rock album, he'd said all he could through that style. He picked out 1979 as the sound for future albums. Plus all the rock is dead, finished stuff he spouted out. So, if MCIS was contrived, as in "we have to do a double album" then Adore was also.

Billy's always been the same. SD had to be this big success or the band was finished because Gish, though a successful debut got blown out of the water by Ten and Nevermind. Then he took it up a notch with MCIS. After that his ego must have been soaring, probably felt like he could do anything. Adore slammed the door on that assumption. Billy blamed the fans. He genuinely expected to do a 180 musically and to carry the millions that bought the previous 2 albums with him.

For someone who obviously was a big music history nerd before he became a successful musician Billy doesn't seem to get that all bands hit peaks, in terms of creativity and mainstream success. The best they can do after that peak is to stay credible and put out strong integrous efforts that appeals to the core fan-base and maybe attracts discerning listeners with quality output. He seems to think that a comeback is a genuine possibility and his music is actively competing with acts that are current. i get that, for someone to whom popularity was always a big pull it must be difficult to accept your time as a big hitter is over but this is the way things are. He'll never be a success again artistically unless he plays by his own rules.

 
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Old 09-20-2018, 07:50 AM   #1262
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As for his (surprising) comments on the vocal mixing, this falls into line with what i posted above. I don't believe for one minute that Rubin talked him into mixing his vocals prominently, he's been doing this on every release since Mary Star of the Sea. Billy has seen himself as primarily a singer-songwriter for ages now, just one that happens to be in a band. That's the way SP2 have been presented and one big reason why they've failed big-time. Corgan's voice was always weak and idiosyncratic but as part of a greater whole, it worked, somehow. He may be technically a better singer after the lessons and focus he's put on it over the decades but he'll never be a "good" singer in absolute terms. So, placing the vocals so prominently will always be a bad move. I've never read one review which has complimented Billy on his improved singing. The fact he still thinks this approach is the way to go is contrary to all evidence.

 
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Old 09-20-2018, 07:53 AM   #1263
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Adore was a peak artistically. SD and Adore are his two meisterwerks, without a doubt. They were just received differently.

If Adore had been released by a different band as a debut in 1998, it would've been received very well.

 
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Old 09-20-2018, 07:55 AM   #1264
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Originally Posted by RenewRevive View Post
As for his (surprising) comments on the vocal mixing, this falls into line with what i posted above. I don't believe for one minute that Rubin talked him into mixing his vocals prominently, he's been doing this on every release since Mary Star of the Sea. Billy has seen himself as primarily a singer-songwriter for ages now, just one that happens to be in a band. That's the way SP2 have been presented and one big reason why they've failed big-time. Corgan's voice was always weak and idiosyncratic but as part of a greater whole, it worked, somehow. He may be technically a better singer after the lessons and focus he's put on it over the decades but he'll never be a "good" singer in absolute terms. So, placing the vocals so prominently will always be a bad move. I've never read one review which has complimented Billy on his improved singing. The fact he still thinks this approach is the way to go is contrary to all evidence.
At the same time I've never read a mainstream review which mentions the difference between SP 1 and SP 2 singing. In fact, I had to come on here a few years ago to see if anyone was talking about it, as I thought I was the only one who thought that way. I certainly found my kin here that's for sure!

His voice on its own is good if he's singing softly, the likes of the start of To Sheila for example. But he doesn't sing like that now unfortunately.

Last edited by eviltimeban : 09-20-2018 at 08:15 AM.

 
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Old 09-20-2018, 07:58 AM   #1265
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Old 09-20-2018, 07:59 AM   #1266
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Adore was a peak artistically. SD and Adore are his two meisterwerks, without a doubt. They were just received differently.

If Adore had been released by a different band as a debut in 1998, it would've been received very well.

 
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Old 09-20-2018, 08:27 AM   #1267
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Adore was a peak artistically. SD and Adore are his two meisterwerks, without a doubt. They were just received differently.

If Adore had been released by a different band as a debut in 1998, it would've been received very well.
By about two people and then never spoken of again.

 
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Old 09-20-2018, 09:38 AM   #1268
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Adore was a disaster ( commercially) but I like it.


SP are dead, they had their time.

Whatīs Silvery in the charts?


Billy has released so many bad songs/albums in the last 18 years that most people donīt wanna even listen to the new songs.
I spoke with lots of former listeners - they all say the same: Zwan, Zeitgeist, and TFE were crap, and I donīt give a hit about oldceanieu or Monumentz


Only the real hardcore base is still out there.

Only 2 gigs in Europe, because nobody wants them.

I remember 3 gigs (Munich, etc... where there were only 2000 people) Billy was so pissed, lol

 
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Old 09-20-2018, 10:46 AM   #1269
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Adore was a peak artistically. SD and Adore are his two meisterwerks, without a doubt. They were just received differently.

If Adore had been released by a different band as a debut in 1998, it would've been received very well.
i've been reconsidering adore lately.

Tear and Crestfallen are hard to listen to. Dated and meandering.

Pug is really botched in the production. Good song though.

It's a shame there's that cluster in the middle.

 
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Old 09-20-2018, 11:02 AM   #1270
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I absolutely love Adore from the very moment I pressed play on its release day.

After that Billy and the band lost something. Machina is a mess. Zwan album was cringy. The Future Embrace was meandering. Zeitgeist was a decent album with crap production. Everything after that was boring and forgettable and usually ruined by crap production.

Adore was Billy's last great album. I thought it was a proper follow up to Mellon Collie and felt like the right path.

Solara and Silvery Sometimes are bland and again crap production.

Last edited by MyKeyZ : 09-20-2018 at 11:43 AM.

 
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Old 09-20-2018, 11:06 AM   #1271
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Originally Posted by SPLATTER View Post
i've been reconsidering adore lately.

Tear and Crestfallen are hard to listen to. Dated and meandering.

Pug is really botched in the production. Good song though.

It's a shame there's that cluster in the middle.
Funnily enough, over the years I've grown to appreciate Tear a lot more. The main mellotron riff is great, sure it goes on a bit but it's a great track.

Crestfallen less so but it's certainly not one of my less favourite ones. Plus I've always liked Pug and the production works IMO.

The only ones I really skip are Annie Dog and Shame. Shame is ok but it's WAY too long. AD is vocally awful, unlistenable, but the music is good.

 
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Old 09-20-2018, 11:18 AM   #1272
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For someone who obviously was a big music history nerd before he became a successful musician Billy doesn't seem to get that all bands hit peaks, in terms of creativity and mainstream success. The best they can do after that peak is to stay credible and put out strong integrous efforts that appeals to the core fan-base and maybe attracts discerning listeners with quality output. He seems to think that a comeback is a genuine possibility and his music is actively competing with acts that are current. i get that, for someone to whom popularity was always a big pull it must be difficult to accept your time as a big hitter is over but this is the way things are. He'll never be a success again artistically unless he plays by his own rules.
Billy is so bizarre and unusual in that, as an old man, he still wants to appeal to teenagers. Imagine being a normal fifty year-old man and trying to appeal to 17 year-olds in real life. It usually ends in an arrest and humiliating front page headlines on all of the newspapers-just ask my uncle Gerald.

Great musicians who appeal to their own teenage rebel generation usually mature and move on; bringing that generation with them and maybe through their new work appealing to an older demographic; and if the music is timeless, of course there will be some wise younger fans, perhaps disillusioned with the latest crop of bands, who will follow their career too.

Billy has brought some stragglers from his hardcore fanbase with him; but they're dissatisfied with the product, because he's not loyal and true. He's constantly talking about the musical environment and competition as though he's still a part of the latest scene, like an older guy who snubs his high school reunion because he's seeking a date for the prom; then at said prom turns up without a date and is caught masturbating in the girls' toilets.

He never got the credit he felt was his due because he was overshadowed by other bands in his prime. All music is a product of its time and one can never know, but it occurred to me that Billy would have been a much bigger thing if he had come along a little bit later, when Kurt Cobain and company's star was diminished or diminishing. He reminds me of the tennis player Andy Murray who possibly would have won a lot more in another era without Nadal, Federer and Djokovic around to steal his glory.

 
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Old 09-20-2018, 12:40 PM   #1273
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Tear and Annie Dog are my least favorite. I used to like Tear, but it is just a slog to listen to. If it were half as long, it would be better, but still just OK. Its placement in the album is also a show-stopper. It should come at the end. But that is the problem with Adore, so many songs seems like "end of album" songs. (note - adore is still my fav)

I used to dislike Crestfallen, but I really like it now.

Shame is great. Shame on you.

 
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Old 09-20-2018, 12:47 PM   #1274
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Originally Posted by Candy Cane View Post
like an older guy who snubs his high school reunion because he's seeking a date for the prom; then at said prom turns up without a date and is caught masturbating in the girls' toilets.
This seems to be a running theme for you.

 
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Old 09-20-2018, 03:47 PM   #1275
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Once Upon A Time, Annie Dog, and The Tale Of Dusty & Pistol Pete are my least faves on Adore. Still a great album, but swapping them out for Waiting, Eye, and Blissed And Gone would set if off. Also Saturnine... the Judas O versions.

 
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Old 09-20-2018, 04:48 PM   #1276
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>>>




So he asked them and they're not comfortable with it, probably. A shame.

 
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Old 09-20-2018, 11:50 PM   #1277
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He will still play them live though, I'm guessing.

 
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Old 09-21-2018, 01:22 AM   #1278
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Once Upon A Time[...] and The Tale Of Dusty & Pistol Pete are my least faves on Adore. Still a great album, but swapping them out for Waiting, Eye, and Blissed And Gone would set if off. Also Saturnine... the Judas O versions.

 
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Old 09-21-2018, 07:50 AM   #1279
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I got blocked by Billy.

I asked him who gave the better blow-jobs between Courtney and that transgender person he nailed.

 
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:13 AM   #1280
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So he asked them and they're not comfortable with it, probably. A shame.
You idiot think that he asked them? Lol- bully often contradicts himself.
Also in this case.
Do not believe his q a on insta. You never know when/if he is being serious.


Btw oceanias drumming is ok- it s just his shitty voice and melodies.wildflooooooooower.

 
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Old 09-21-2018, 11:03 AM   #1281
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Question for ya'll... on what album do you think Billy's voice sounds the worst? I vote for Shitegeist. His vocals on Doomsday Schlock and Orchid in particular are some garbage. Ruins those songs.

 
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Old 09-21-2018, 12:44 PM   #1282
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Zwan, and most of Zeitgeist.

Oceania and Monuments aren't the worst for the most part. TFE kinda works.

Ogilala is really the worst / best example of Billy Vibrato though.

 
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Old 09-21-2018, 01:25 PM   #1283
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Worst is zeitgeist definitely

 
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Old 09-21-2018, 01:27 PM   #1284
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Zeitgeist by far

 
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Old 09-21-2018, 01:29 PM   #1285
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Zeit. I didn't mind Zwan.

 
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Old 09-21-2018, 01:41 PM   #1286
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Zwan, and most of Zeitgeist.

Oceania and Monuments aren't the worst for the most part. TFE kinda works.

Ogilala is really the worst / best example of Billy Vibrato though.
I thought his voice sounded okay on the Zwan album. Haven't listened to Ogliglgialalalaimpala yet. I agree about TFE, but his voice in All Things Change sounds like shit. Part of why I hate that song so much.

 
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:57 PM   #1287
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I got blocked by Billy.

I asked him who gave the better blow-jobs between Courtney and that transgender person he nailed.
tbh you were begging to be blocked with a question like that.

 
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Old 09-21-2018, 04:48 PM   #1288
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What is the bullshit I'm reading right now.

His vocals sound 100% better in Zwan than anything that came afterwards.

Ogilala actually suits his style of singing. He still sings good live, and Ogilala's stripped back performances work fine.

It became a problem around Zeitgeist, and it's by far worst on Zeitgeist:

1. Zeitgeist / AG
2. Teargarden=Oceania
3. MTAE / Shiny OSB

>>>>

4.Ogilala
5. Zwan
6. Entirety of SP1

 
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Old 09-21-2018, 04:51 PM   #1289
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His vocal quality sounds fine on Zeitgeist. The mix is the issue. I think his worst singing on an album is Oceania. It’s not that it’s terrible in and of itself, it just has his new way of singing throughout. I thought his vocals on MTaE were mostly a return to form.

 
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Old 09-21-2018, 04:52 PM   #1290
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His vocal quality sounds fine on Zeitgeist. The mix is the issue. I think his worst singing on an album is Oceania. It’s not that it’s terrible in and of itself, it just has his new way of singing throughout. I thought his vocals on MTaE were mostly a return to form.
Yeah MTAE and Shiny OSB it's bearable.

Also agreed ZG it just needs mixing lower.

I'd guess we'll get a ZG reissue in 4-5 years. Maybe he'll listen to the fans.

 
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