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Old 03-09-2020, 09:33 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
The "we don't need to appeal to the center" argument is insane. Most Democrats are NOT progressive. I think the progressive internet echo chamber forgets this. One problem is that the parties have changed in different ways, and the GOP no longer has to appeal to the center. The Dems do. We mostly only talk to people who think similarly to ourselves, but like the point my dad was trying to make, leftist candidates have historically done abysmally in the US for all kinds of offices. So saying that the lesson of history is don't appeal to the center is nuts to me.
I think you're right

I'm definitely in the progressive echo chamber with twitter and reddit, and spent all of last week wondering 'who in the actual fuck is voting for joe fucking biden'

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Old 03-09-2020, 09:48 PM   #182
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Can't help thinking of what happened to UK Labour under Corbyn in their last election. Different problems, but a population who should have been all for Corbyn's proposals knocked them back in traditionally Labour-voting areas because the Brexit Party and the Tories were the only ones prepared to go low enough to trigger the protectionist/xenophobic/racist knee-jerk. The working poor and unemployed don't want justice, maybe...maybe they just want good jobs and they have a belief that putting the U.S.A. first, at all costs, is an acceptable way to guarantee that

I wonder if part of the problem on the left is a weird faith in the baseline morality of most people. Kids in cages, billionaire classes paying no tax, people dying because they can't afford healthcare, student debt crippling new generations, there is a weird faith that everybody cares about these things. I just wonder if a lot of people are past that now...because those are essentially existential concerns, and too many people have slipped backwards into being primarily interested in material concerns - they're not interested in theories about providing equitable healthcare coverage for the general population - they're interested in having a job that can pay the bills and is reasonably secure. And then for that group (which according to the data I've seen, is growing), Trump basically says, I will get you a job, at any expense. I don't care if the world falls apart and we imprison children at the borders. I will create new American jobs. And maybe people love that shit more than anything else.

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Old 03-10-2020, 06:44 AM   #183
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well, in the UK there was a big smear campaign in the media against Corbyn, as nasty as you can imagine. UK media are a fucking disease.

plus I really believe that in this day and age, people will vote for whoever has the simplest, clearest message. never mind the fact that the uk's problems are as complex and difficult to fix as any country's, but people vote for a guy saying GET BREXIT DONE instead of someone who says 'well maybe we need to focus on the underlying problems'

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Old 03-10-2020, 01:21 PM   #184
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In some ways the same thing happened in 2016 in the US with H Clintonís emails and Trumpís MAGA...

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