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Old 11-17-2016, 11:24 PM   #1
qwerty sp
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Default Classic SP sell outs?

can anyone remember why that in the early 90s SP may have been seen as sell outs?

 
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Old 11-17-2016, 11:28 PM   #2
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got signed to a fake indie label owned by virgin records

 
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Old 11-17-2016, 11:30 PM   #3
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got signed to a fake indie label owned by virgin records

Caroline

 
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Old 11-17-2016, 11:30 PM   #4
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got signed to a fake indie label owned by virgin records


Lol "fake"

 
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Old 11-18-2016, 01:30 AM   #5
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honestly who cares about labels? if the music is good it's good

 
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Old 11-18-2016, 03:29 AM   #6
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I just remember Kim Gordon's quote:

Quote:
Courtney asked us for advice about her ‘secret affair’ with Billy Corgan. I thought, Ewwww, at even the mention of Billy Corgan, whom nobody liked because he was such a crybaby, and Smashing Pumpkins took themselves way too seriously and were in no way punk rock.
also, http://archive.alternativenation.net...-from-the-90s/

 
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Old 11-18-2016, 07:55 AM   #7
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Earliest show -maybe the third?- opened for RHCP and Janes Addiction

 
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Old 11-18-2016, 08:49 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post
honestly who cares about labels? if the music is good it's good
well yeah, bit i'm answering the question in the thread. it's one big reason, being on a pretend-indie label that was really owned by virgin

 
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Old 11-18-2016, 09:28 AM   #9
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honestly who cares about labels? if the music is good it's good
word.

it seems clear that Bellz knew some of the "right people" to get a leg up in the biz. so what? they still made some of the best music of the alternative rock era.

 
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Old 11-18-2016, 10:01 AM   #10
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on one side, with their image, attitude and music - they were representing something that was, at the time, considered alternative/underground/indie, but on the other side, billy was obviously very serious about getting the band into the mainstream, he wanted to be a rock star. which pretty much contradicts the somewhat pretentious attitude of the late 80s and early 90s quasi-alternative indie bands and their "we only care about music, not the money" attitude.
seriously, one of their first concerts (after jimmy joined) was opening for jane's addiction.
which brings up a whole different story, how people have said that gish sounds like they were just jumping on the jane's addiction bandwagon, or that siamese dream was their "grunge record", and so on..

I don't judge billy for doing whatever he could to get the band a nice spot in the whole business. honestly I think it's dumb to act like you're an indie band if you're signed to a major label.

 
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Old 11-18-2016, 11:16 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by reprise85 View Post
got signed to a fake indie label owned by virgin records
this woulda been the reason there were people who saw them as sell-outs when they went on the "real" virgin records for SD, if anything

Bill at the very least had said several times they always wanted to be a "big band or no band," so only people who thought they got starry-eyed after Gish would have deemed 'em sell-outs for what they did afterward

 
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Old 11-18-2016, 11:33 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Bomb The Moon View Post
word.

it seems clear that Bellz knew some of the "right people" to get a leg up in the biz. so what? they still made some of the best music of the alternative rock era.
Maybe if he hadn't shit on everyone on the way up he would still have viable music career today.

 
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Old 11-18-2016, 01:09 PM   #13
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i can't wait for your next insightful post, weasel

 
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Old 11-19-2016, 03:14 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post
honestly who cares about labels? if the music is good it's good
That was a weird schtick at the time for some dumb reason. Rock acts couldn't just come out as having signed with a major label for fear of being seen as artificial or manufactured. So the brilliant label executives/A&R guys came up with the wonderful idea of creating fake indie labels to serve as fronts and groups would release EPs or 'early' versions of their first album or whatever and then go 'major'.

Seems like a major waste of time, effort and money that did nothing but slow a group's productively down but whatever... apparently it was all the rage of coming from a label that was deemed to be 'indie'.

I think this practice was used a lot... Fuel comes to mind and maybe Collective Soul and I wouldn't be surprised if SP was on that list too.

 
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Old 11-19-2016, 10:59 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jelly Blossom View Post
That was a weird schtick at the time for some dumb reason. Rock acts couldn't just come out as having signed with a major label for fear of being seen as artificial or manufactured. So the brilliant label executives/A&R guys came up with the wonderful idea of creating fake indie labels to serve as fronts and groups would release EPs or 'early' versions of their first album or whatever and then go 'major'.

Seems like a major waste of time, effort and money that did nothing but slow a group's productively down but whatever... apparently it was all the rage of coming from a label that was deemed to be 'indie'.

I think this practice was used a lot... Fuel comes to mind and maybe Collective Soul and I wouldn't be surprised if SP was on that list too.
regardless of their intentions, it did allow the band at least one album to grow on, instead of just trying to "bring the hits" right out the box

i mean, imagine if Gish was treated as their Siamese Dream like it was initially supposed to be. thing had nothing that could have really replaced Today, Disarm & Cherub as singles, and it wasn't trying to be that kind of record either

 
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Old 11-19-2016, 11:53 AM   #16
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i mean, imagine if Gish was treated as their Siamese Dream like it was initially supposed to be. thing had nothing that could have really replaced Today, Disarm & Cherub as singles, and it wasn't trying to be that kind of record either

Did they have ANYTHING even close to 'traditional singles' in their repertoire in 1991 that they could have worked into radio hits? It's well documented that Billy had to learn how to write 'songs' after gish.

I'll add that without the psychedelic muscle of Gish, I'm pretty sure SD would have been ignored upon release..

 
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Old 11-19-2016, 12:05 PM   #17
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can anyone remember why that in the early 90s SP may have been seen as sell outs?
Desperately trying to jump on the Marilyn Manson bandwagon with Ava Adore and it's video.

Turned off a lot of once hardcore fans that I know in real life... Even though as we know Adore really doesn't fit the whole Ava Adore video vibe but to the general public they were just jumping on the bandwagon.

 
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Old 11-19-2016, 12:06 PM   #18
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Also the whole: "Rock and roll is dead. We're going techno now with our new album"

Even though as we know Adore isn't even techno but fucking B0lly was trying desperately to sell that it was.

 
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Old 11-19-2016, 12:08 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jelly Blossom View Post
That was a weird schtick at the time for some dumb reason. Rock acts couldn't just come out as having signed with a major label for fear of being seen as artificial or manufactured. So the brilliant label executives/A&R guys came up with the wonderful idea of creating fake indie labels to serve as fronts and groups would release EPs or 'early' versions of their first album or whatever and then go 'major'.
It is pretty funny to think about now. the early 90's were a simpler, purer time where that kinda stuff actually meant a lot to people.

 
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Old 11-19-2016, 12:11 PM   #20
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Did they have ANYTHING even close to 'traditional singles' in their repertoire in 1991 that they could have worked into radio hits?
Sure they did. The singles were all traditional enough as far as 1991 alt-rock standards went. Fit in well enough with Janes Addiction and all that

 
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Old 11-19-2016, 12:14 PM   #21
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Also the whole: "Rock and roll is dead. We're going techno now with our new album"

Even though as we know Adore isn't even techno but fucking B0lly was trying desperately to sell that it was.
that shit was almost certainly tongue & cheek

anytime you actually hear the guy saying that kind of stuff on record it's always followed by a snicker

 
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Old 11-19-2016, 12:16 PM   #22
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& i always thought Bill kinda oversold the fact that he had to learn to write "pop songs" or whatev after Gish, i thought he penned some pretty catchy shit both before & during that album, even if it wasn't always hashed out in particularly obvious/radio-friendly way

"Bleed" for example, pretty memorable hook both guitar & vocal

 
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Old 11-19-2016, 12:28 PM   #23
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that shit was almost certainly tongue & cheek

anytime you actually hear the guy saying that kind of stuff on record it's always followed by a snicker
Wrong. Listen to the 98 Howard Stern interview. He was really pushing the new album as being "techno" because "everything in rock has been done". And this was in an age were internet wasn't a mainstay so a lot of fans were really pissed off and turned off by this. All these hardcore "rock fans" being told by a musician they love that the formats dead and to move on.

It was an arrogant move

 
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Old 11-19-2016, 12:30 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Mals Marola View Post
& i always thought Bill kinda oversold the fact that he had to learn to write "pop songs" or whatev after Gish, i thought he penned some pretty catchy shit both before & during that album, even if it wasn't always hashed out in particularly obvious/radio-friendly way

"Bleed" for example, pretty memorable hook both guitar & vocal
Yeah man. Corgan's always been about the pop music. A lot of his old quotes were nothing but posturing.

 
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Old 11-19-2016, 12:32 PM   #25
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Wrong. Listen to the 98 Howard Stern interview. He was really pushing the new album as being "techno" because "everything in rock has been done". And this was in an age were internet wasn't a mainstay so a lot of fans were really pissed off and turned off by this. All these hardcore "rock fans" being told by a musician they love that the formats dead and to move on.

It was an arrogant move
I mean Billy should have sold it like this:

"Yeah, we've been doing the loud rock thing for a long while now and we're super burnt out from it and I've been going through some sad and tough times so we've taken a more somber, delicate acoustic approach with the new record.

But instead he was the original troll with "Rock is dead. It's all about techno now. That's why we made this album"

 
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Old 11-19-2016, 12:42 PM   #26
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you're quoting yourself? no one wants to talk to you? poor guy.

billy is not the original troll. and not even close to being the first person to say "rock is dead". the who said it back in 1972, and it's probably even older than that.

 
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Old 11-19-2016, 12:53 PM   #27
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Sure they did. The singles were all traditional enough as far as 1991 alt-rock standards went. Fit in well enough with Janes Addiction and all that
no.
sp at the time didn't have chord based songs like 'jane says" or 'been caught stealing'... nothing even close. Riff laden songs like I am One or Siva were not the kind of music that charted in the same way.

he biggest thing billy stole from janes addiction - wearing a dress on stage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mals Marola View Post
"Bleed" for example, pretty memorable hook both guitar & vocal
no. it's a good song, but it's not even close to the obvious hooks on today, tonight or 1979.

 
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Old 11-19-2016, 01:13 PM   #28
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Old 11-19-2016, 01:15 PM   #29
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Old 11-19-2016, 01:16 PM   #30
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It may not be early 90s, but a Sellout thread would be funny.

 
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