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Old 08-08-2017, 10:03 AM   #151
Elphenor
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you're not meek and timid if you have the basic intelligence it takes to be considerate, you just don't want to go around being a donkey

 
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Old 08-08-2017, 10:06 AM   #152
Cool As Ice Cream
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donkey shaming that is offensive to donkeys shame on you you donkey shamer and i already want to apologise in advance to all donkey shamers because i do realise i am donkey shamer shaming here i'm sorry

 
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Old 08-08-2017, 10:47 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by Elphenor View Post
you're not meek and timid if you have the basic intelligence it takes to be considerate, you just don't want to go around being a donkey
It's not about being considerate, it's just about cleaning the slate so he can go on donkey shaming with a clear conscience. No one knew of his use of the word (or cared), he was just trying to preempt any criticism of hypocrisy so he wouldn't look like an asshole if he was called out on it when he and others were high fiving each other in one of the race baiting jeremiad circle jerks that they engage in.

 
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Old 08-08-2017, 12:46 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by Poots View Post
Why are the modern liberal values timidness, weakness, and self-hatred? I don't think this is what John Locke had in mind:
Let me guess; you've "studied John Locke extensively."

 
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Old 08-09-2017, 05:08 PM   #155
smashingjj
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I'm gonna delete all these trump posts later

there's a thread for that shit

edit: I moved them to the trump thread. have fun talking about your beloved president there, kids

Last edited by smashingjj : 08-09-2017 at 05:20 PM.

 
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Old 08-09-2017, 06:35 PM   #156
Eulogy
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I still can't understand why "hey maybe try not to be a dick to groups of marginalized people" is seen as some affront to free speech.

This thread has some bad takes

 
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Old 08-09-2017, 06:36 PM   #157
Eulogy
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And god that fucking Louis bit led to some awful conversations with straight white bros in college

 
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Old 08-09-2017, 06:39 PM   #158
Eulogy
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I'm also reminded of what I read about chappelle's recent sets

"HAHA SOME TRANS WOMEN HAVE DICKS!!!"

It's just. Just stop.

 
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:47 PM   #159
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I'm sorry it's shit to talk to people who are ignorant. I know what it's like because I'm a brown overweight woman in my late thirties with kids, and it is terrible.

But I'd still rather that people made jokes or comments that sparked those conversations, and I think the Louis bit and the Seinfeld bit are funny to a lot of people within the queer community and it's probably good for the conversations to happen even if they are terrible to actually be a part of.

I'm kind of an equal opportunities audience, too. If something makes me laugh then it's funny to me, even if it's terrible and insulting and mean.

Being a fat woman is probably the worst - it's still considered fair game to laugh about fat girls/women in mainstream media. Most fat girls/women don't choose to be fat any more than someone chooses to be gay.

But if a fat girl joke is funny...I still laugh. Sometimes it just feels like taking the low hanging fruit. But sometimes it's really funny even if it is mean. THere's that mean/funny thing. I dunno.

 
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Old 08-09-2017, 11:29 PM   #160
Eulogy
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"Hey that girl is fat"

"This trans woman may have a penis"

"Those men have sex with each other"

These aren't jokes. The Seinfeld joke is one I hadn't heard. I shrug at that. The Louis bit was harmful, imo. Just like the Seinfeld aids walk episode. Didn't age well. Compare that to the curb your enthusiasm episode with the obviously gay kid. That's so different. Again imo.

 
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Old 08-10-2017, 01:26 AM   #161
vixnix
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I don't remember that Seinfeld aids walk episode.

The Louis bit is tough for me because the punchline "People from Phoenix are Phoenicians - shut the fuck up faggot, and suck that cock" is great comedy, to me, but at the same time I bristle at it because in many situations it would be a terrible, hateful thing to say. I hate the idea of comics being told not to make jokes out of things. And it's not a "LOL those men have sex with each other" joke, is it?

I put my foot in it when I said I enjoyed one of Chappelle's latest bits, about the superhero who "rapes, but he saves", over dinner at a restaurant. There was someone there whose daughter was raped and who hates rape jokes because of it. I felt shitty afterwards when somebody told me about it...but the person who told me about it said she felt terrible because he'd just been telling her about how he hates rape jokes, right before I described it to the table, and then she couldn't stop herself from laughing. I mean, a lot of people find it funny. It's terrible, like a terrible thing to laugh about, but it's funny to so many of us.

 
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Old 08-10-2017, 02:36 AM   #162
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Louis is kewl

 
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Old 08-10-2017, 04:10 AM   #163
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To me, it just comes across as a bunch of out of touch old dudes yelling morally objectionable things because it's an easy punchline to make, about the same level as fart jokes.

Doesn't surprise me people would defend that in a place like netphoria, tbh.

 
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Old 08-10-2017, 04:15 AM   #164
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"these damn kids just don't laugh at my jokes anymore! In the olden days everyone would laugh, so obviously there can't be anything wrong with me, this dumb kids just... dont... get... it..."

 
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Old 08-10-2017, 05:12 AM   #165
vixnix
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What kind of humour do you enjoy? Do you have any favourite stand ups?

 
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Old 08-10-2017, 05:30 AM   #166
Eulogy
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"Suck that cock" as a punchline is literally "lol those men have sex with each other."

There's so much good comedy these days. Not necessarily stand up but in television. It doesn't need to be lazy or "edgy" when edgy means shitting on the historically shat upon. Punching down isn't funny.

 
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Old 08-10-2017, 05:44 AM   #167
smashingjj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulogy View Post
"Suck that cock" as a punchline is literally "lol those men have sex with each other."

There's so much good comedy these days. Not necessarily stand up but in television. It doesn't need to be lazy or "edgy" when edgy means shitting on the historically shat upon. Punching down isn't funny.
you talking about Louis CK now? he's basically defending homosexuals in every one of his shows

 
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Old 08-10-2017, 05:48 AM   #168
Eulogy
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you talking about Louis CK now? he's basically defending homosexuals in every one of his shows
I'm talking about that particular bit. Replace faggot with nigger and tell me how you'd feel.

Allies can fuck up. I don't hate him. I hate that bit.

 
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Old 08-10-2017, 05:49 AM   #169
Eulogy
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The second half of that post was more about chapelle and the like. Louis doesn't do shit like that anymore afaik

 
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Old 08-10-2017, 05:50 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by vixnix View Post
What kind of humour do you enjoy? Do you have any favourite stand ups?
I prefer laying down.

What's a humor.

 
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Old 08-10-2017, 05:51 AM   #171
vixnix
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I mean the biggest punchline to any of his shows is what a loser piece of shit he is, so from that position he can't really punch down on anyone, you know? Watching a show from start to finish makes that a bit clearer I reckon. In that joke he's punching up at assholes who think they're better than everyone else because they're bright and know a bunch of stuff that most other people don't.

Stand up is a special kind of comedy I reckon. A lot of comedy writers for scripted shows cut their teeth on stage. Being able to get laughs on stage is a lot harder than people think. Most people who pay to see a comedian don't laugh at punching down because as you've pointed out, anyone can do that. If you've gone out of your way to a show, and handed out your hard earned cash at the door, your expectations are too high to be met by punching down, IMO.

 
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Old 08-10-2017, 06:01 AM   #172
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It can be both things, though. You don't have to dislike stand up and/or the specific comedian to have moral objections about something they said.

I get it though, a lot of comedy can happen when pushing against the edge of morality. But that doesn't mean they are above criticism.

 
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Old 08-10-2017, 06:14 AM   #173
vixnix
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I agree that they shouldn't be above criticism an that it's totally possible to have a moral objection to something a comedian says and still enjoy their work and stand up in general.

The thing I disagree with in this instance is that it was a basic, punching down joke. I don't think it could be, and still be funny to a lot of people. At the same time I get how it hurts to hear it, for those who have heard it spoken in hate before. I don't have a real opinion except that I think the bit is better than a basic "haha gay guys" kind of joke.

 
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Old 08-10-2017, 06:26 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaBelle View Post
To me, it just comes across as a bunch of out of touch old dudes yelling morally objectionable things because it's an easy punchline to make, about the same level as fart jokes.

Doesn't surprise me people would defend that in a place like netphoria, tbh.
Fart jokes are much better than slurs and edginess. Farts are universal and marginalize only farts

 
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Old 08-10-2017, 06:40 AM   #175
LaBelle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vixnix View Post
I agree that they shouldn't be above criticism an that it's totally possible to have a moral objection to something a comedian says and still enjoy their work and stand up in general.

The thing I disagree with in this instance is that it was a basic, punching down joke. I don't think it could be, and still be funny to a lot of people. At the same time I get how it hurts to hear it, for those who have heard it spoken in hate before. I don't have a real opinion except that I think the bit is better than a basic "haha gay guys" kind of joke.
I think reinforcing negative stereotypes is generally in poor taste.
While it may not be the comedian's intention it's very likely a big portion of that crowd finds the humor in that through their own prejudice, instead of the intended point of the joke.
Like say seinfeld's gay king joke. The takeaway by a lot of people can be "gay people are so affected it's obnoxious" and not the intended "all cell phone users come across as obnoxious".

And that's usually an easy thing to keep in mind and avoid, imo.

 
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Old 08-10-2017, 07:06 AM   #176
vixnix
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I think that's a big assumption to make. Have you gone to a stand up show? I really can't imagine the main contingent of a Louis ck audience laughing at that joke because they think men being gay is funny.

And he would have put a lot of thought into that joke, and considered its fallout. I feel like you don't completely appreciate what goes into stand up comedy.

 
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Old 08-10-2017, 07:09 AM   #177
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I feel like you are trying real hard to attack me for my opinion.

I'm out.

 
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Old 08-10-2017, 07:16 AM   #178
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This is Phase #1 of the post series we'll hopefully get to read on the upcoming vixnix stand-up appearance, right?

 
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Old 08-10-2017, 07:17 AM   #179
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Or did that happen already?

 
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Old 08-10-2017, 07:18 AM   #180
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i can't imagine it so it must not be true. -emma

 
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