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Old 08-01-2018, 12:27 AM   #1
solaraflame
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Default Could MACHINA have been better?

I thought I'd aim for a useful post here, as I really love Machina...but, I loathe the fact that it's essentially half a great album and then falls off the wagon.
I also am so dissapointed that many superior tracks are on Machina 2, so unless you're a hardcore SP fan, it's not generally a known record.
Why didn't Billy and co. wait to just finish the record (or mixing of the Machina 2 songs) and then make something cohesive out of the material and ditch the too grandiose musical narrative?
I know we all have our own Machina alt tracklist. Here is mine:
1. Cash Car Star
2. Let Me Give The World To You
3. Stand Inside Your Love
4. Dross
5. Try, Try, Try
6. I Of The Mourning
7. This Time
8. Innosense
9. Real Love
10. Speed Kills (B side version)
11. Blue Skies Bring Tears (heavy)
12. Home
13. Age Of Innocence

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 12:35 AM   #2
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Wow an “ideal machina tracklistimg thread.” How original

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 12:36 AM   #3
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1. Crying tree of mercury (hostel demo)
2. Glass Theme (vocals only)
3. Blue Skys Bring Tears (with extended drum solo)
4. Everlasting Gaze
5. Crying tree of mercury (denny's demo)
6. Hey kids rock and roll

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 05:03 AM   #4
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is johncg me?

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 05:58 AM   #5
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maybe if they scrapped it

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 06:52 AM   #6
Kahlo
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Heavy Metal Machine (60 minute version)

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 07:04 AM   #7
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King of Beffen!!!!

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 08:12 AM   #8
Kahlo
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King of Beffen!!!!
I EARNED THAT TITLE. NO ONE CAN TAKE IT AWAY.

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 08:34 AM   #9
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I'm bored in work. So hell I'll give it a go, if that's the game we're playing.

MACHINA - The Friends & Enemies of God's Machine

1. The Everlasting Gaze
2. Glass's Theme
3. Dross
4. Stand Inside Your Love
5. Slow Dawn
6. Try Try Try
7. Raindrops + Sunshowers
8. Heavy Metal Machine
9. Cash Car Star
10. Let Me Give The World To You
11. In My Body
12. Vanity
13. Glass & The Ghost Children
14. Here's To The Atom Bomb
15. Age Of Innocence

I reckon that flows quite nicely - has a few rockers up front, doesn't have too many dips or murky corners, and makes and epic ending with G&TGC followed by two strong finishing songs.

Leaving out Mercury, Profane, Mourning, Imploding, and Blue Skies as they really drag - you can listen to the start of those songs, and flick towards the end and virtually nothing has happened or changed. No dynamics. These are the tracks that ruined Machina. Sure, I've got HMM in there; I figured it and CCS made for some good mid-album rockers, in keeping with the apparent "back to rock" approach to the album.

I was going to add Wound but felt a song with a similar tempo and beat was Raindrops, which I've always preferred. With Every Light is just too light, could've been a b-side though. This Time is very meh.

There's plenty of Machina 2 tracks that I like but didn't add - White Spyder is too extreme for a commercial major label album, though it and some other offcuts like Speed Kills, Saturnine, and Home could've made up a nice companion EP. Or just save them for CD single b-sides.

Last edited by eviltimeban : 08-01-2018 at 09:59 AM.

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 09:02 AM   #10
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I EARNED THAT TITLE. NO ONE CAN TAKE IT AWAY.
hahah. nice new custom title; not sure if it works in German though

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 09:25 AM   #11
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How about--

MACHINA - Heavy Metal Version

1. Heavy Metal Machine
2. Heavy Metal Machine
3. Heavy Metal Machine
4. Heavy Metal Machine
5. Heavy Metal Machine
6. Heavy Metal Machine
7. Heavy Metal Machine (alternate mix)
8. Heavy Metal Machine
9. Heavy Metal Machine
10. Heavy Metal Machine
11. Go

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 09:28 AM   #12
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Who gives a rat's prick

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 09:56 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johncg View Post
Wow an “ideal machina tracklistimg thread.” How original
Lol. I know it's been done to death.

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 09:57 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smashingjj View Post
maybe if they scrapped it
ALL of it? There' some merit for sure to at least half of it

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 09:58 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by artvase View Post
Who gives a rat's prick
Machina 1 and 2 are probably the most prized and desired repackagings/reissues to come.

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 09:58 AM   #16
solaraflame
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaFritz View Post
How about--

MACHINA - Heavy Metal Version

1. Heavy Metal Machine
2. Heavy Metal Machine
3. Heavy Metal Machine
4. Heavy Metal Machine
5. Heavy Metal Machine
6. Heavy Metal Machine
7. Heavy Metal Machine (alternate mix)
8. Heavy Metal Machine
9. Heavy Metal Machine
10. Heavy Metal Machine
11. Go
Yeah, I could get behind this. Torture chamber style.

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 09:59 AM   #17
solaraflame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eviltimeban View Post
I'm bored in work. So hell I'll give it a go, if that's the game we're playing.

MACHINA - The Friends & Enemies of God's Machine

1. The Everlasting Gaze
2. Glass's Theme
3. Dross
4. Stand Inside Your Love
5. Slow Dawn
6. Try Try Try
7. Raindrops + Sunshowers
8. Heavy Metal Machine
9. Cash Car Star
10. Let Me Give The World To You
11. In My Body
12. Vanity
13. Glass & The Ghost Children
14. Here's To The Atom Bomb
15. Age Of Innocence

I reckon that flows quite nicely - has a few rockers up front, doesn't have too many dips or murky corners, and makes and epic ending with G&TGC followed by two strong finishing songs.

Leaving out Mercury, Profane, Mourning, Imploding, and Blue Skies as they really drag - you can listen to the start of those songs, and flick towards the end and virtually nothing has happened or changed. No dynamics. These are the tracks that ruined Machina. Sure, I've got HMM in there; I figured it and CCS made for some good mid-album rockers, in keeping with the apparent "back to rock" approach to the album.

I was going to add Wound but felt a song with a similar tempo and beat was Raindrops, which I've always preferred. With Every Light is just too light, could've been a b-side though. This Time is very meh.

There's plenty of Machina 2 tracks that I like but didn't add - White Spyder is too extreme for a commercial major label album, though it and some other offcuts like Speed Kills, Saturnine, and Home could've made up a nice companion EP. Or just save them for CD single b-sides.
Well done. I actually agree with you on many points here.

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 10:07 AM   #18
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Fuck that shit, here's your Arising album.

Glass Theme
Virex
Dross
Speed Kills
Blue Skies Bring Tears
Stand Inside Your Love
Glass + The Ghost Children
Wound
Cash Car Star
Home
If There Is A God
With Every Light

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 10:09 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solaraflame View Post
Machina 1 and 2 are probably the most prized and desired repackagings/reissues to come.
Okay. This is definitely Billy.

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 10:12 AM   #20
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you okay, johncg?

a lot of people even here were looking forward to that reissue the most, are you trying to say nobody ever wanted it, ergo if you do, you must be Bully? um...

Bully 146 checking in

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 10:51 AM   #21
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I haven't cared for the pumpkins in a minute, but the Machina reissue is def one of the things I still am looking forward to

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 11:21 AM   #22
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it's not happening though, or is there still a chance for it to be reissued some day in the future?

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 11:23 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soniclovenoize View Post
Fuck that shit, here's your Arising album.

Glass Theme
Virex
Dross
Speed Kills
Blue Skies Bring Tears
Stand Inside Your Love
Glass + The Ghost Children
Wound
Cash Car Star
Home
If There Is A God
With Every Light
now this I'd be interested in. you don't strike me as the type that makes dream playlists of un- or differently released albums and then also has them on MP3 somewhere. but if somehow I'm wrong, I'd be very interested in hearing them.

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 11:33 AM   #24
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No, those were both incredible albums and fit perfectly with the band imploding. But I pretty much cannot fault SP output from Gish - Machina II, even the B-Sides.

2007 onwards has some...issues.

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 11:40 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smashingjj View Post
it's not happening though, or is there still a chance for it to be reissued some day in the future?
IIRC all he's really said somewhat recently is that there are some rights issues to be worked out, and somehow that has led to a 40+ page thread here speculating on whether it's dead in the water

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 11:49 AM   #26
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Great thread. Next do one about your ideal Mellon Collie tracklist with songs from TAFH added!

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 11:54 AM   #27
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Combined Machina tracklist threads pop up all the time, along with singe-disc MCIS tracklists, so some people are jaded of seeing them. Don't be too put off by the snark.

I just threw everything together in a giant clusterfuck of a three-disc album because I tried to follow the intended GATMOG plot, such as it was supposed to be. I kinda pared it down to:

01. Glass' Theme
02. The Imploding Voice
03. Stand Inside Your Love
04. The Sacred And Profane
05. Real Love
06. Glass + The Ghost Children
07. Raindrops + Sunshowers
08. Let Me Give The World To You
09. Dross
10. Vanity
11. Speed Kills
12. Blue Skies Bring Tears

01. Heavy Metal Machine
02. Wound
03. Try, Try, Try
04. This Time
05. The Everlasting Gaze
06. In My Body
07. I Of The Mourning
08. If There Is A God
09. Slow Dawn
10. Home
11. Here's To The Atom Bomb
12. With Every Light
13. Age Of Innocence


Or something. I've got too much of an attachment to most of the songs out of this period. Can't cut it down to one disc.

It was definitely the most anticipated reissue because the others didn't really need remastering at all and he made a big point of saying it was going to come out in its intended tracklist. He said in the Q & A if it comes out it would use "Original mixes" so everything would probably sound closer to Arising versions. People actually do want this thing, either because they want to know the intended running order, or want the tracks cleaned up, or want everything to sound better meshed together. Pick a reason.

Of course I'm sure once the tracklist comes out people will hate it or disagree with it completely or just use the new playlist with the original released versions, but that's part of the fun.

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 12:11 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by topleybird View Post
IIRC all he's really said somewhat recently is that there are some rights issues to be worked out, and somehow that has led to a 40+ page thread here speculating on whether it's dead in the water
I think that statement was around 3 or 4 years ago, so 'dead in the water' would describe the situation quite nicely at the moment I guess?

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 12:13 PM   #29
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I'd still really want to hear the reissue if it ever comes. Very interested to get to know way he chooses to fuck that one up.

For all the promise Machina showed it really deserves a reissue, maybe even moreso than the rest, but wi think it's safe to say Corgan will do everything in his power to make it sound not too great.

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 12:22 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smashingjj View Post
hahah. nice new custom title; not sure if it works in German though
Oh I know, but der Cunnilingus doesn't sound as good. Beffen sounds like a small town somewhere.

Right everyone, back to making your fucking tracklists.

70 minutes of the 'I can hear the voice of God' interlude.

 
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