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Old 12-21-2016, 11:43 PM   #91
Ram27
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Originally Posted by crabshack View Post
Here's the way I look at it. If you prefer Oceania, then you prefer the ethereal, textural side of SP. That's fine. Who doesn't?

Problem is, you're not going to get it without James.

Zeitgeist is the purest of the post-reunion albums because it features BC and JC doing what they do best. Cranking out riffs. Also it's the only album to feature the most original members.

And without someone pretending to be James. Zeitgeist, for all its faults, is the purest post-reunion album.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to crabshack again.

 
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Old 12-21-2016, 11:54 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
I think what bothers people about Z so much is that it's not a good album, but the ingredients are there for what could have been a decent album, or at least a better album than what we actually got.

It's easier to dismiss Teargarden or Monuments because they have no potential to be anything better
I'll agree completely to that first bit. Better production and a tracklist shuffling could have made it way more enjoyable. It'd still be a big dumb rock album that would turn off a lot of SP's fanbase but it'd have been much more listenable with a better flow.

I can dismiss 90% of Teargarden because Bill was pretty clearly dropping acid or had Yellow Submarine on repeat or was receiving transmissions from a mystical obelisk and thought "SYNTHADELICA!!" or some shit. And then he decided to just shit out whatever crossed his mind. One or two good ones in there, but those were lucky.

Monuments, though....that album just feels like he couldn't even be bothered to write more than 2/3 of a fucking song for the most part.

ZG > Oash > TG = MTAE

 
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Old 12-22-2016, 12:01 AM   #93
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Z does feel like a more authentic SP album, but I have to put Oash above it because it's just not as grating to listen to and has more good songs (versus Z which has higher peaks, but they are usually just a few moments or specifics parts of songs). Monuments is an album of absolute nothingness. Teargarden is easily the worst thing he has ever done in his whole career aside from Aegea and shit like that. I know there are a few mediocre songs in the mix, but the lows are so low absolutely nothing could salvage it.

 
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Old 12-22-2016, 03:13 AM   #94
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Oash > ZG > TG = MTAE

Only thing ZG has going for it is Jimmy. Oceania has shades of the warm Pumpkins sound and some pretty nice arrangements and production. TG is garbage and MTAE is radio friendly garbage

 
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Old 12-22-2016, 09:18 AM   #95
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Good album, especially the RTB produced stuff. Clearly it's Billy's love of Queen inspiring this one. And sure, the vocals are loud, but that's one of RTB's trademarks; to have something surprisingly loud scattered through the mix in order to keep you attentive. You'll find plenty of examples in his hugely successful The Cars and Queen albums. It's just it stands out against the boring cookie cutter production of 21st century albums.

 
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Old 12-22-2016, 09:20 AM   #96
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Merry Xmas bElli

May ur low thousand wax into the mid to high thousands!

 
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Old 12-22-2016, 09:32 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1 View Post
please, can you guys just stop trying to convince yourself a horrific turd of a record from 2007 is decent music

you need to let go now
...and then that time, in 2007, that daddy dumped a whole can of cold spaghetti in my ear while I was trying to listen to Neon Bible, and when I said I didn't like it he cried and said it was my fault and he wished I'd never been bornt, see, he didn't mean it, that was just the only way daddy knew how to show his love to us

If you just could understood daddy (and sneakers) you'd see

 
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Old 12-22-2016, 12:16 PM   #98
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You liked that bloated dad-rock piece of crap?

Good grief, that whole era makes me cringe.

Everybody gather for themselves! Everybody gather for themselves! themselves! Everyone! Everyone! YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
Are you fucking retarded? Can you read basic fucking English? Did I say I liked the song? I said I liked the guitar solo. Learn to read asswipe.

 
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Old 12-22-2016, 02:51 PM   #99
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Now that's the Christmas spirit!

 
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Old 12-22-2016, 07:20 PM   #100
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To me, ZG marked the beginning of Billy making music based on what he thought people wanted to hear/what he thought would be popular vs. actually striving for some sort of artistic/personal vision. There are moments of technical prowess, but they seem oddly empty. The whole album just seems really cold and unfeeling to me, which sucks, cause so many of the earlier albums were full of life and zest.

 
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Old 12-22-2016, 08:03 PM   #101
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Superchrist... the one and only song from this era and the last song to sound like Smashing Pumpkins. Everything else post-Machina is poop.

 
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Old 12-22-2016, 09:38 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by DaveKShape View Post
To me, ZG marked the beginning of Billy making music based on what he thought people wanted to hear/what he thought would be popular vs. actually striving for some sort of artistic/personal vision. There are moments of technical prowess, but they seem oddly empty. The whole album just seems really cold and unfeeling to me, which sucks, cause so many of the earlier albums were full of life and zest.
Agreed, although I'd trace this "give em what they think they want" shit back to MSOTS, and to a lesser extent, Machina

What made it even more embarrassing in 2007 was bills vague/half-baked (and ultimately empty) "political" angle for the record; was such a transparent, pathetic attempt to ape the success of green days american idiot album

 
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Old 12-23-2016, 12:44 AM   #103
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.

Last edited by houseofglass11 : 01-26-2017 at 01:11 AM.

 
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Old 12-23-2016, 02:43 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by crabshack View Post
I've had Z on repeat for the past 2 hours and it shreds. Makes me want to go buy a pair of these


those are SICK

 
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Old 12-23-2016, 02:47 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by houseofglass11 View Post
Any particular reason Zeitegeist is not on Spotify? Perhaps Billy thinks it sucks too?

Quote:
The album divided the Pumpkins' fanbase. Corgan would later admit, "I know a lot of our fans are puzzled by Zeitgeist. I think they wanted this massive, grandiose work, but you don't just roll out of bed after seven years without a functioning band and go back to doing that"
-(from wikipedia)

 
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Old 12-23-2016, 03:34 AM   #106
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I think they wanted this massive, grandiose work
No not really

Gravity Demos is like 50 times the album Zeitgeist is

 
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Old 12-23-2016, 06:03 AM   #107
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Yeah we like the chicago songs too billy. Massive grandiose or minimal sparse who cares as long as its good.

 
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Old 12-23-2016, 08:35 AM   #108
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It's rather convenient for Bawlz to blame what he perceives as failures on the fickleness of his fans. He does it all the time. And he has less and less "fans" now. Huh.

 
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Old 12-23-2016, 10:13 AM   #109
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He's also said Z was supposed to be a reintroduction to the band's sound. His poor vision and his even worse ability to execute that vision often seems to destroy the quality of the actual work

 
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Old 12-23-2016, 10:56 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by SPatrick View Post
Good album, especially the RTB produced stuff. Clearly it's Billy's love of Queen inspiring this one. And sure, the vocals are loud, but that's one of RTB's trademarks; to have something surprisingly loud scattered through the mix in order to keep you attentive. You'll find plenty of examples in his hugely successful The Cars and Queen albums. It's just it stands out against the boring cookie cutter production of 21st century albums.
How's it going Billy?

 
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Old 12-23-2016, 07:58 PM   #111
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a transparent, pathetic attempt to ape the success of green days american idiot album
Yes, so much yes. I've always felt as much about the album. He was trying to make a record that sounded "important" and "timely" but utterly failed. Zeitgeist just stays in second gear, driving down the middle of the road the whole time.

 
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Old 12-23-2016, 07:59 PM   #112
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it doesn't help that he has a 15 year olds perception of world events

 
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Old 12-23-2016, 08:51 PM   #113
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What do you have against 15 year olds?

 
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Old 12-23-2016, 08:53 PM   #114
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this is basically a great showcase of Jimmy & Billy as players, with a coupla pretty good songs thrown in (tho mostly in the way of re-introduced outtakes via that silver edition)

i wasn't prepared for the level of nostalgia "Stellar" brought me a few minutes ago, either

 
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Old 12-23-2016, 09:09 PM   #115
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wow - she's cute!

 
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Old 12-23-2016, 09:12 PM   #116
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4/10

Too many watermarks

 
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Old 12-23-2016, 09:13 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
I think what bothers people about Z so much is that it's not a good album, but the ingredients are there for what could have been a decent album, or at least a better album than what we actually got.

It's easier to dismiss Teargarden or Monuments because they have no potential to be anything better
Come on man.... Don't lump teargarden in with Monuments.... There's nothing even close in quality to One and All, Tiberius, Dorian and Anti-Hero on TBK.... Well probably only Tom-tom but that was the only diamond in the turd.

 
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Old 12-23-2016, 09:14 PM   #118
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i wasn't prepared for the level of nostalgia "Stellar" brought me a few minutes ago, either
Stellar is in a league of its own. It's the only song from the post-2000 era that comes even close to capturing that original spirit for me (I say as someone who dug Oceania).

 
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Old 12-23-2016, 09:15 PM   #119
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Come on man.... Don't lump teargarden in with Monuments.... There's nothing even close in quality to One and All, Tiberius, Dorian and Anti-Hero on TBK.... Well probably only Tom-tom but that was the only diamond in the turd.
Anti-Hero is a giant hunk of shit. Bottom 5 SP for me.

 
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Old 12-23-2016, 09:16 PM   #120
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IIRC his mission statement for the album was to write about the changing of the times as he saw it, shit like celebrity (Starz), war and security (FGAC, DC, US). But the whole thing's just unfocused, not at all cohesive.

When I consider it, most of the songs that actually stuck with me are the ones where it doesn't feel like there was a specific agenda to them and he was just talking about personal shit, more or less.
He was just trying to jump on the whole American Idiot bandwagon and ape it's premise for success.

 
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