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Old 07-30-2018, 02:36 PM   #151
themadcaplaughs
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Originally Posted by Zer0 Hour View Post
That's actually a great way of putting it. Especially after hearing TEG on the radio (which isn't the best SP song but it rocks pretty hard) and then listening to the rest of the album. It felt like a bait and switch.
A lot of my friends felt the same way about the album Adore and "Ava Adore" in 1998. We got a quirky, fun, and tasteful pop rock song with weird lyrics, one of the most concise guitar solos in the band's history, and a fun music video. It did misrepresent the album to a degree.

 
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Old 07-30-2018, 02:42 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by themadcaplaughs View Post
A lot of my friends felt the same way about the album Adore and "Ava Adore" in 1998. We got a quirky, fun, and tasteful pop rock song with weird lyrics, one of the most concise guitar solos in the band's history, and a fun music video. It did misrepresent the album to a degree.
A bit, yeah. I had a somewhat similar reaction to Adore because that song felt like more of a blend of new wave and alternative rock than the majority of the album. But I came around on Adore pretty quickly; I just viewed it (and still view it) as a solo album. Corgan's mistake was releasing it under the SP name and not his own. I remember him saying that James and D'arcy weren't all that involved in it, and obviously Jimmy wasn't.

Adore probably sold better because it was under the SP brand but I think long-term, it ended up doing more damage to the band. Because if you were really only into SP for songs like Cherub Rock and Bullet, that album might have put you off of them. And if you did stick around in hopes that they'd get back to their roots with the next album, Machina might have killed those hopes for you.

 
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Old 07-30-2018, 02:43 PM   #153
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astral planes is dire but i don't hate it because i associate it with this now:


 
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Old 07-30-2018, 02:45 PM   #154
Zer0 Hour
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astral planes is dire but i don't hate it because i associate it with this now:

This is amazing.


And about 10 billion times better than the Solara video.


Also, it just dawn on me how much Billy looks like Charlie Brown.

 
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Old 07-30-2018, 02:48 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by Zer0 Hour View Post
That's actually a great way of putting it. Especially after hearing TEG on the radio (which isn't the best SP song but it rocks pretty hard) and then listening to the rest of the album. It felt like a bait and switch.
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Originally Posted by themadcaplaughs View Post
A lot of my friends felt the same way about the album Adore and "Ava Adore" in 1998. We got a quirky, fun, and tasteful pop rock song with weird lyrics, one of the most concise guitar solos in the band's history, and a fun music video. It did misrepresent the album to a degree.
I do have to agree that both Ava Adore and The Everlasting Gaze felt like a bait and switch on their respective albums, but at least Billy delivered a stellar and emotional album with Adore. I'm sorry, but Machina is a meandering mess. I have no emotional connection with it at all. It would have been much better if some Machina II songs were swapped in along with some of the alternate versions of album tracks. But as is Machina itself was a huge disappointment for me, especially after it was the return of Jimmy Chamberlain. With Jimmy, I expected something a bit more ferocious. The album just didn't live up to the hype. As for Adore, I loved it from the moment I pressed play and didn't mind that it wasn't Ava Adore style tracks repeated for a dozen or more tracks. Adore also has some amazing b-sides and leftover tracks.

 
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Old 07-30-2018, 02:57 PM   #156
Zer0 Hour
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I do have to agree that both Ava Adore and The Everlasting Gaze felt like a bait and switch on their respective albums, but at least Billy delivered a stellar and emotional album with Adore. I'm sorry, but Machina is a meandering mess. I have no emotional connection with it at all. It would have been much better if some Machina II songs were swapped in along with some of the alternate versions of album tracks. But as is Machina itself was a huge disappointment for me, especially after it was the return of Jimmy Chamberlain. With Jimmy, I expected something a bit more ferocious. The album just didn't live up to the hype. As for Adore, I loved it from the moment I pressed play and didn't mind that it wasn't Ava Adore style tracks repeated for a dozen or more tracks. Adore also has some amazing b-sides and leftover tracks.
Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel about both albums. Adore has some really strong lyrics, catchy melodies and a lot of emotional depth. Machina feels like a vanity project for Corgan; he got so lost in his "Glass" concept that he forgot to make an album anyone wanted to listen to. Especially since Jimmy came back and because Billy said in an interview around the time that Adore came out that their next album would be the heaviest thing fans had ever heard. And hell, I didn't even need that... I just needed something that felt like a rock album again with some good guitar and drum work and lyrics that didn't make me cringe. Like you said, I can't connect emotionally at all, except for a couple songs.

 
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Old 07-30-2018, 03:55 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Zer0 Hour View Post
Also, it just dawn on me how much Billy looks like Charlie Brown.
Then you are in for a treat

 
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Old 07-30-2018, 04:18 PM   #158
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You know I'm not dead
I'm just living for myself
Forever waiting

 
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Old 07-30-2018, 09:15 PM   #159
Zer0 Hour
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Oh this is great. Thank you! Hahahaha

 
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Old 07-30-2018, 09:37 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by themadcaplaughs View Post
A lot of my friends felt the same way about the album Adore and "Ava Adore" in 1998. We got a quirky, fun, and tasteful pop rock song with weird lyrics, one of the most concise guitar solos in the band's history, and a fun music video. It did misrepresent the album to a degree.
Had to hunt for it a bit, but here it is, straight from Cracked:

https://i1.wp.com/media-cache-ec0.pi...0eca5f1aa2.jpg

 
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Old 07-30-2018, 09:42 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by Zer0 Hour View Post
This is amazing.


And about 10 billion times better than the Solara video.


Also, it just dawn on me how much Billy looks like Charlie Brown.
Manson said that too

 
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Old 07-30-2018, 09:44 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by Shadaloo View Post
Had to hunt for it a bit, but here it is, straight from Cracked:

https://i1.wp.com/media-cache-ec0.pi...0eca5f1aa2.jpg
Genius artwork. I loved Adore but I agree.
He should have saved Eye, TEIBITE, TBITEITB, the early electro-ish Cash Car Star and the good version of Saturnine and it might have rocked even harder and balanced the organic and the heavy synth stuff.

 
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Old 07-30-2018, 10:38 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Shadaloo View Post
Had to hunt for it a bit, but here it is, straight from Cracked:

https://i1.wp.com/media-cache-ec0.pi...0eca5f1aa2.jpg
Lmao that's absolutely perfect.

I remember buying the CD as a kid and thinking "What the fuck is this?" I ended up trading it in at a CD shop.

 
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Old 07-30-2018, 10:47 PM   #164
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"Astral Planes" failed miserably, but I can at least appreciate the vibe Corgan attempted to chase; a '60s garage rock jam. "Quasar" shamelessly rips-off old Pumpkins moment with a D-level riff, one of the most boring vocal melodies of all time, and bullshit lyrics. If this had been on Zeitgeist, we could have at least enjoyed Jimmy's kick ass drumming, but Byrne's drums in this song sound like effects out of a Super Nintendo video game. His drum tone sounds weird on the whole album, but particularly egregious here. His drums sounded better (purely in terms of audio quality) on the first 10 TbK songs.

Byrne just seemed to lose energy as his time in the band continued. In 2009/2010, he was a far cry from Jimmy, but seemed to have the stamina and mixture of tight/loose playing that could eventually make him an adequate replacement. When the band started touring again in 2011, Byrne looked like he aged 10 years, and his playing deteriorated on old songs. By 2012/2013 he was making amateur mistakes in songs and, if my memory serves me, he was having to get cortisone shots before shows.
The poor bastard never stood a chance.

 
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Old 07-30-2018, 10:56 PM   #165
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I'd prefer an album full of songs like To Sheila than Ava Adore tbh

 
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Old 07-30-2018, 11:09 PM   #166
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absolutely

 
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Old 07-30-2018, 11:31 PM   #167
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The fuck are you guys on about TEG being a bait and switch. The distinct wall of sound during the chorus can be heard throughout Machina.

 
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Old 07-30-2018, 11:53 PM   #168
Zer0 Hour
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The fuck are you guys on about TEG being a bait and switch. The distinct wall of sound during the chorus can be heard throughout Machina.
Oh, come on. You can’t seriously tell me that after hearing TEG, you were expecting an album of mid-tempo pop songs, most of which have guitar parts that you can barely discern due to all the synth and other weird shit thrown in. You could take that cartoon shown above and replace “Adore” with “Machina”, the Ava Adore lyrics with the lyrics of TEG, and the opening line of To Shield with “Pop tart, what’s our mission?” and it would be just as effective. Actually more effective, because Adore is a much better album that Machina I.

 
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:00 PM   #169
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Oh, come on. You can’t seriously tell me that after hearing TEG, you were expecting an album of mid-tempo pop songs, most of which have guitar parts that you can barely discern due to all the synth and other weird shit thrown in. You could take that cartoon shown above and replace “Adore” with “Machina”, the Ava Adore lyrics with the lyrics of TEG, and the opening line of To Shield with “Pop tart, what’s our mission?” and it would be just as effective. Actually more effective, because Adore is a much better album that Machina I.
wtf no

TEG is a partial bait and switch perhaps, but literally nothing on Adore sounds like Ava Adore. That song is way more akin to TEITBITE.

But taking TEG, I can easily hear the elements that made that song on The Imploding Voice and Heavy Metal Machine.

 
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:37 PM   #170
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TEG would have been more representative of an album that had more stuff like White Spyder or Dross on it. Call it a symptom of Machina being broken up in an unintended way but I always thought he was really trying to revisit the MCIS structure of having two discs with a few hard rocking numbers, a few mellow numbers, and a lot of overall variety.

 
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:53 PM   #171
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Well no way he was getting 5 singles to represent Machina.

 
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Old 07-31-2018, 09:12 PM   #172
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Tom Tom is a fucking masterpiece

http://forums.netphoria.org/wwwboard/icons/icon14.gif http://forums.netphoria.org/wwwboard/icons/icon14.gif http://forums.netphoria.org/wwwboard/icons/icon14.gif

easily one of if not the best (studio) track from that whole era. TG EP 2 in general is probably the single best EP/album release from SP2 in general, all it's really missing is Jimmy but even that doesn't hurt it so much

 
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Old 07-31-2018, 09:13 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by DemonUnicorns View Post
wtf no

TEG is a partial bait and switch perhaps, but literally nothing on Adore sounds like Ava Adore. That song is way more akin to TEITBITE.

But taking TEG, I can easily hear the elements that made that song on The Imploding Voice and Heavy Metal Machine.
I think people kinda overstate the distance between Ava & the rest of the album
It may a bit more obvious-single than most of it, and upbeat in its own dark way, but it's hardly the furthest thing in the world from tracks like Pug & Tear

 
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Old 07-31-2018, 09:58 PM   #174
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MACHINA is not that bad

No idea why there’s such angst

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 12:19 AM   #175
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MACHINA is not that bad

No idea why there’s such angst
I love both Machinas. I think the sad thing though is just that Machina 1 is too bloated with filler. And of course, Machina 2 has some great cuts that got left off of Machina 1.
I think if the best tracks off each album were put into 1 album and mixed/mastered to be cohesive, we'd be looking at Machina as one of the top SP records (or at least a notch below SD and MCIS).
But sadly, Virgin and the SP pre-breakup obviously disssolved all of that.
I hated getting Machina and seeing that some of the tracks from the Arising tour were off or poorly recorded and that better versions existed on Machina 2 (and better songs too).

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 12:31 AM   #176
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I love both Machinas. I think the sad thing though is just that Machina 1 is too bloated with filler. And of course, Machina 2 has some great cuts that got left off of Machina 1.
I think if the best tracks off each album were put into 1 album and mixed/mastered to be cohesive, we'd be looking at Machina as one of the top SP records (or at least a notch below SD and MCIS).
But sadly, Virgin and the SP pre-breakup obviously disssolved all of that.
I hated getting Machina and seeing that some of the tracks from the Arising tour were off or poorly recorded and that better versions existed on Machina 2 (and better songs too).
go fuck yourself.

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 12:49 AM   #177
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The poor bastard never stood a chance.
I honestly feel bad for him. Billy must have really messed with head. He hasnt even been playing music apparently. Hopefully one day he will be able to talk publicly about what happened without worrying about bollys lawyers coming at him.

 
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Old 08-01-2018, 12:52 AM   #178
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Quasar probably sounds and feels great when you're in the band, in a rehearsal room, high, playing and feeling the thing.

Duhduuh! duhduuh! duhduuh! du du duh! duh!!

Listening to it is a bit boring though. and that's the story of Oceania
Monte! Right on!

 
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Old 08-02-2018, 12:08 PM   #179
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wtf no

TEG is a partial bait and switch perhaps, but literally nothing on Adore sounds like Ava Adore. That song is way more akin to TEITBITE.

But taking TEG, I can easily hear the elements that made that song on The Imploding Voice and Heavy Metal Machine.
Yeah, but the problem is that those songs suck, LOL.

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TEG would have been more representative of an album that had more stuff like White Spyder or Dross on it. Call it a symptom of Machina being broken up in an unintended way but I always thought he was really trying to revisit the MCIS structure of having two discs with a few hard rocking numbers, a few mellow numbers, and a lot of overall variety.
Totally agree with this. TEG feels right at home with Dross, White Spyder, Cash Car Star, Lucky 13 and Glass. Use those songs and leave off The Crapping Turd of Mercury, Sacred and Profane, HMM, Imploding Voice and Try and you've got a pretty kickass rock album. Swap out With Every Light and maybe Wound for Speed Kills (either version) and In My Body and you've got a great album.

Or maybe it still would have flopped, I don't know. But I think that a lot of us who were disappointed in Machina I would have been a lot happier. I do think it's a shame that it wasn't released as a double album because maybe then, the whole thing would have felt more balanced.

 
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