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11-08-2017, 06:17 PM | #61 |
Apocalyptic Poster
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I've said it before but I think had Jimmy stayed in the band and their next album been more like Eye and TBitEiTB it would have sold a lot better. They could have captured that electro-rock sound a few years before it became mainstream. Their would have been a drop in fans regardless as those years where transitional for all popular acts but they wouldn't have had such a harsh drop like they did. I absolutely love Adore as is but it is a niche of a niche.
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11-08-2017, 06:21 PM | #62 | |
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Quote:
But yeah, decent tracklisting - it needed to be more consistently upbeat and less quiet, plodding and self-indulgent. It's a problem the band repeated with Machina. I like Machina more than most, but when Billy was sat on songs of Machina 2 calibre... what the fuck was HMM, BSBT and Crying Tree doing on a commercial record!?! In place of Home, Vanity, Real Love, Go, Slow Dawn, Dross, Atom Bomb etc...etc... The artwork and title for M2 was far better too... Last edited by VoxUpDoc : 11-08-2017 at 06:32 PM. |
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11-08-2017, 10:13 PM | #63 |
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Does anyone remember the secret websites during the post MACHINA era? I remember people thinking it was going to be about the band reuniting. That's something I don't see discussed anymore either.
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11-09-2017, 01:29 AM | #64 | |
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in any case, this is officially the first year i've actually listened to MSOTS in full & enjoyed it -not every track or moment but, for the most part, i definitely like it more than i ever have before. not quite as "super-happy" as some make it out to be, though i could do without the occasional Christian brochure lyrics, but even tracks i'm not entirely sold on as a whole, like "Endless Summer" have these classic Corgan/Chamberlin interplay parts that make it worth listening to |
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11-09-2017, 03:02 PM | #65 |
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for people that were around, when did the mood turn on Zwan? obviously the 2001 shows were amazing and well received, as were the spring 2002 shows. what were the first signs- was there a show or a moment before the record leaked where things started declining?
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11-09-2017, 03:15 PM | #66 | |
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So broadly speaking, it was the album. But people were still warm to the band as they played that French acoustic show, which was amazing, not long before they split. |
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11-09-2017, 05:26 PM | #67 | |
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Quote:
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11-12-2017, 01:28 AM | #68 |
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The first time I heard "it's you that I adore, you'll always be my whore" on the radio. Couldn't believe that was my favorite band. I knew Adore as an album would be different, but I still hated this song as the first single.
I did end up liking Adore, and might even rank that whole era above MCIS now (but still behind SD and Gish which I consider the "true" Pumpkins sound) but Ava Adore never worked for me. I still find it one of their most cringe worthy songs. They renewed my faith with the Arising Tour, after hearing all the Arising stuff online (probably the first "live" music I downloaded or was able to listen to online in early '99) I was hyped to see them in 2000 - but again, first time I heard Everlasting Gaze on the radio my reaction was pretty much... "WTF is this shit". Machina as an album never grew on me, they had some good material but it was either dropped from the album or ruined in the studio. They main songs I loved were Dross, BSBT, Speed Kills, Stand Inside Your Love. Only 1 made it to the album pretty much intact, they butchered BSBT and the other two were left off entirely (Speed Kills made a nice b-side, but I preferred the Arising version). I thought Zwan was OK, more interesting to me than Machina era ended up being. The 2007 album was "ok". I didn't have the same excitement about SP2 though, I've found most of the recent material snooze worthy. |
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11-12-2017, 01:38 AM | #69 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
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Yeah cos ur the one that i adore u will always be my whore was such a drop off in quality from despite all my rage i am still just a rat in a cage
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11-12-2017, 01:38 AM | #70 | |
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I think this was around the time I stopped really getting into all the different songs Billy was writing. This is where he seemed to have the mindset of "quantity over quality". All I knew is I liked a bunch of the early Zwan songs, and many of them were never released. Just like Machina, there was material there for a great album (hell, probably 2 or 3 great Zwan albums). But unfortunately it was all ruined in the studio. |
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11-12-2017, 01:45 AM | #71 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
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Yup. Did you see them before or after the album was released?
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11-12-2017, 01:50 AM | #72 | |
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Of course it might have kicked too much ass as a single, I think overwhelmingly the mainstream started associating them with that angry "rat in a cage" song and pretty much forgot how great Siamese Dream was (or that Siamese Dream was even from the same band). To then go from some of their heaviest songs (BWBW, X.Y.U) to a record like Adore was just unfathomable. Don't get me wrong - I much prefer Adore now, I can still listen to most of it straight through whereas much of MCIS is borderline unlistenable to me now. However the singles for Adore I always felt were the weak point. |
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11-12-2017, 02:00 AM | #73 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
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Most of mcis is borderline unlistenable?
You are not worthy of life. |
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11-12-2017, 02:07 AM | #74 |
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11-12-2017, 02:10 AM | #75 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
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Yeah I saw them on the same tour. They rocked. But those songs suck.
Except Msots. That shit slays. |
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11-12-2017, 02:10 AM | #76 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
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Did bElli play a red flying v?
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11-12-2017, 02:13 AM | #77 | |
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There's alot of songs on there with juvenile writing. It used to be one of my favorite albums, but as I've grown older it's more of a "love-hate" where I still love some of the songs but despise others. I suppose if I just took the best songs and made 1 single disc that made sense to me, that would still be a pretty damn great album. |
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11-12-2017, 04:27 AM | #78 |
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judging from the songs you just dismissed, i think you'll be better off keeping the one-disc cut down as a private compilation...
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11-12-2017, 05:39 AM | #79 |
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11-12-2017, 06:00 AM | #80 |
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somehow i don't think Mr Love's problem with the lyric was a moral dilemma
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11-12-2017, 07:36 AM | #81 |
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This is pretty insane. God's Gonna Set this World on Fire is freakin' nuts. |
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11-12-2017, 11:56 PM | #82 |
Minion of Satan
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It's amazing how much ill-will Zwan's terribly-produced and poorly-sequenced album brought to the band. Everything else they did, from the first shows to the last, had a real spark and true talent. The album is such a poor representation of who they are and what they did that it still casts a shadow on what was a very fun, and at times very affecting, rock band.
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11-14-2017, 05:17 AM | #83 | |
Ownz
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For whatever reason, the records up to Machina II, I was willing to go on the journey the band was on. Now, not as much. I think that happened some time around the release of Zeitgeist. TheFutureEmbrace album didn't really grab me, but the live shows were great. What I'd really like is for the Pumpkins, if they're coming back intact in 2018, to just be the band they are now. Not try to recapture whatever accolades or sales they did back in the 90s. It'd just be sad to watch them/ him try to do that. |
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11-14-2017, 05:20 AM | #84 |
Ownz
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11-14-2017, 07:37 AM | #85 |
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have you guys not figured out yet that ghostwriters were involved when BiCorg was young and good looking?
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11-14-2017, 11:14 AM | #86 |
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11-14-2017, 11:50 AM | #87 |
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Now this I highly doubt.
Corgans definitely an enigma in a lot of ways, but I can't see the guy relying on outside help to write songs. |
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11-14-2017, 03:14 PM | #88 |
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11-14-2017, 06:21 PM | #89 |
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Billy's last perfect song was Stand Inside Your Love. I'm no insider but it just feels fucky that after the MTV darling era was passed, no more perfect songs happened. I do think Billy is a highly talented composer I just have a nagging suspicion that other experts were involved when SP were golden geese. Gish didn't have perfect songs, but SD, MCIS, Adore and Machina had them
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11-14-2017, 07:37 PM | #90 |
BOTTLEG ILLEGAL
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lol Billy would never in a million years allow ghostwriters. i do think flood had a big hand in arrangements, however
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