Monuments is better than Zeitgeist or Oceania

killtrocity · 01:31 AM

much better. The only redeeming aspect of Zeitgeist was Jimmy, and he's buried in the shit ass mix.

Monuments just piles on the catchy hooks and is pretty varied in style... Tiberius is the best song he's made in a very very long time. One and All sounds like a MCIS era B-side. I don't love the whole thing, but I love 40% of it, which is more than I can say about anything since Machina. Only real beef is the lyrics

idk I mean it's not MCIS, but really what the fuck are you expecting at this point?

Shallowed · 12-03-2014, 01:39 AM

I agree, and I'd also add its short length to the list of reasons why it's better. I liked Oceania and all, but it overstays its welcome, and I never bother to listen to it because of that.

TbK vol 1 and 2 also might have been improved by putting them together instead of spreading the releases so thinly. And then the entire TbK project would make a lot more sense instead of something that's entirely been made up as it goes along.

Sonic Johnny · 12-03-2014, 01:53 AM

Cholera is better than AIDS or Ebola

Implosion · 12-03-2014, 01:55 AM

Wait a while until the novelty of the new album fades. No way will this opinion prevail.

Order 66 · 12-03-2014, 02:02 AM

it seems to be the fulcrum where he finally let go of pretenses about what a "smashing pumpkins" album is supposed to be (even though zeitgeist and oceania deserve credit for shaking things up in places.) so for that reason i think it'll be looked back on more fondly

though they're very different it reminds me a lot of TFE, which was a very personal album without the weight of the brand anchoring him down. likewise monuments is a take on music he listened to growing up. i think it's about a much simpler and innocent time in his life

killtrocity · 12-03-2014, 02:03 AM

yeah the good stuff just feels honest, has interweaving melodies like the old stuff... but god, the lyrics just kill the potential on some of the songs (feel alright tonight, I love a girl like you or whatever the fuck)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Implosion

Wait a while until the novelty of the new album fades. No way will this opinion prevail.

No way... there are 3-4 songs on this one that are legit. Oceania has maybe 2. Zeitgeist, I don't even know... have to be in the right mood, doesn't really go anywhere. And even then, I'm trying to block out the abhorrent vocals and listen to jimmy jam do his thing.

thedeadofnight · 12-03-2014, 02:05 AM

I thought the same about Oceania when it first came out.....haven't listened to it in over a year

Stinstrom3 · 12-03-2014, 02:09 AM

From the music side of it I think it is without question better than Zeitgeist and Oceania. Hell Dorian alone musically is one of the best songs I think he has written. As unpopular of an opinion as that may be.

Mals Marola · 12-03-2014, 02:09 AM

some of the songs are great, probably at least 6 out of the 9, actually, but i feel like it was much more enjoyable listening to these on their own before the album even came out than it is to listen to the whole thing in a proposed album casing or whatever

the sugar factor of it all as a whole album though just becomes overwhelming, especially around the run2me-dorian mark/run of tracks

killtrocity · 12-03-2014, 02:16 AM

this was unquestionably designed as a sampler pack to hopefully offer something which might be injected into mainstream radio play

but honestly the batting average is just higher amongst this bunch

thedeadofnight · 12-03-2014, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stinstrom3

From the music side of it I think it is without question better than Zeitgeist and Oceania. Hell Dorian alone musically is one of the best songs I think he has written. As unpopular of an opinion as that may be.

I agree about Dorian. I was surprised with it. I got a sorta Here's to the Atom Bomb mixed with TFE vibe, really cool

Stinstrom3 · 12-03-2014, 02:20 AM

I will say I really want to read the lyrics for all the songs. I can only truthfully understand the chorus on the songs and very little in the verses. There may be some good lines of lyrics in the verses that we haven't heard?

Mals Marola · 12-03-2014, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killtrocity

this was unquestionably designed as a sampler pack to hopefully offer something which might be injected into mainstream radio play

but honestly the batting average is just higher amongst this bunch

right, a song like "monuments" just doesn't quite hit as hard comin after two other synth-heavy tracks for me though

the "pumpkins hangup" thing that was mentioned earlier in this thread might have actually filled the thing in a bit more, some rock epic or whatever coming between drum + fife and monu might have actually made it the clear-cut best album since machina ii

Mals Marola · 12-03-2014, 02:33 AM

good tunes tho

for sure

werideatdusk · 12-03-2014, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killtrocity

this was unquestionably designed as a sampler pack to hopefully offer something which might be injected into mainstream radio play

but honestly the batting average is just higher amongst this bunch

yeah this is true, and it's weird cause SP has always been such an "album band". Zeitgeist seems like it was kinda thrown together too but at least has a consistent sound to make it fit. This one really does feel like a long EP. So it has to be judged a bit differently than something like Oceania which was designed to take the listener on a journey. Or at least that's what Shaman Durek told me.

Bread Regal · 12-03-2014, 03:06 AM

yeah, the album is full of hooks and while some of them really fail, at least he's trying.

MyKeyZ · 04:15 AM

Zeitgeist > Monuments > Oceania

Zeitgeist is harder and more Pumpkins sounding than Monuments and Oceania combined.
If only Jimmy would come back to drum in the studio things would be so much better... just give us that.
Of course, if he toured that would be amazing... but just get him in the studio at least and all will be well in the world.
If Jimmy was on Monuments album, then maybe it would be better than Zeitgest... he would have definitely added an edge and give helped give the album a more unhinged quality instead of this rigid and safe version of SP we have today.

killtrocity · 12-03-2014, 04:28 AM

these songs are soooooo not jimmy... there's this RHCP style swagger going on. Oceania he could have tremendously helped, but this one would not even exist were he in the picture

Sonic Johnny · 12-03-2014, 05:13 AM

"RHCP style swagger" is pretty generous. Sounds like wall-eyed Tommy Lee struggling to find the groove in corgan's anemic 2014 riffs. Chad Smith woulda fucked the shit outta those songs.

amoergosum · 12-03-2014, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyKeyZ

Zeitgeist > Monuments > Oceania

I agree.

pumpkins · 12-03-2014, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Implosion

Wait a while until the novelty of the new album fades. No way will this opinion prevail.

Totally agree.

houseofglass11 · 12-03-2014, 06:04 AM

I disagree to agree about agreeing

Mals Marola · 12-03-2014, 06:34 AM

let's agree to disagree, house of disagreements

fuzzyroes · 12-03-2014, 06:44 AM

the thing thats much better about Zeitgeist is that Billy actually had a lot to say on it. It was a spirited , ambitious effort. You can tell there was passion put into it.

Theres some great songs on this album, but I kinda get the vibe that Billys hearts not into it

fuzzyroes · 12-03-2014, 06:46 AM

I'm just listening to Zeitgeist for the first time in awhile right now and I still don't understand why it generated the response it did. Sure the vocals are a little dry, but it's still a pretty fucking cool album.

s0ss · 12-03-2014, 08:44 AM

I'm sure this has no staying power - but I can't even get through Oceania. I give up by the middle and that's with me skipping that first shitty track.

MyOneAndOnly · 09:38 AM

it's a good solo follow-up to TF

not that it's similar in style. but that it's obviously something that he was into and did well, and he isn't trying to force it into what SP is supposed to be. like or dislike the songs, he did a good job with them. Unlike Zeitgeist which sounds like the last gasp of grunge billy

MyOneAndOnly · 12-03-2014, 09:39 AM

It feels to me like THIS is what he should have done in 2009 instead of TBK

LaBelle · 09:46 AM

It's better than Oceania and the first wave of Teargarden songs (or whatever Billy wants to call those)
but it's way worse than anything on American Gothic and Zeitgeist.

Shadaloo · 12-03-2014, 10:48 AM

There's an decent album buried somewhere in Zeitgeist's shit production. When he gets around to reissuing and reworking that, I'm hoping it can be saved a little.

The album's got more punch than Oceania, but I find it just as disappointing for different reasons.

It's an improvement over most of the initial round of TBK output, I'll give it that.

12-03-2014, 01:21 AM	#1
killtrocity Saturday Night Goth Location: POLLOS Posts: 9,207	Monuments is better than Zeitgeist or Oceania much better. The only redeeming aspect of Zeitgeist was Jimmy, and he's buried in the shit ass mix. Monuments just piles on the catchy hooks and is pretty varied in style... Tiberius is the best song he's made in a very very long time. One and All sounds like a MCIS era B-side. I don't love the whole thing, but I love 40% of it, which is more than I can say about anything since Machina. Only real beef is the lyrics idk I mean it's not MCIS, but really what the fuck are you expecting at this point? Last edited by killtrocity : 12-03-2014 at 01:31 AM. Reason: lowered percentage

12-03-2014, 04:09 AM	#17
MyKeyZ Apocalyptic Poster Location: A very stable individual Posts: 1,690	Zeitgeist > Monuments > Oceania Zeitgeist is harder and more Pumpkins sounding than Monuments and Oceania combined. If only Jimmy would come back to drum in the studio things would be so much better... just give us that. Of course, if he toured that would be amazing... but just get him in the studio at least and all will be well in the world. If Jimmy was on Monuments album, then maybe it would be better than Zeitgest... he would have definitely added an edge and give helped give the album a more unhinged quality instead of this rigid and safe version of SP we have today. Last edited by MyKeyZ : 12-03-2014 at 04:15 AM.

12-03-2014, 09:33 AM	#27
MyOneAndOnly Shut the fuck up! Location: "Okay, white power feminist" - yo soy el mejor Posts: 23,890	it's a good solo follow-up to TF not that it's similar in style. but that it's obviously something that he was into and did well, and he isn't trying to force it into what SP is supposed to be. like or dislike the songs, he did a good job with them. Unlike Zeitgeist which sounds like the last gasp of grunge billy Last edited by MyOneAndOnly : 12-03-2014 at 09:38 AM.

12-03-2014, 09:40 AM	#29
LaBelle Socialphobic Location: Away Posts: 11,398	It's better than Oceania and the first wave of Teargarden songs (or whatever Billy wants to call those) but it's way worse than anything on American Gothic and Zeitgeist. Last edited by LaBelle : 12-03-2014 at 09:46 AM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Gish or Zeitgeist?	brothergoddard	Pumpkins Archive	141	10-26-2014 10:16 AM
'Oceania' Review Aggregator	TheNightMare	Pumpkins Archive	91	06-22-2012 11:59 AM
who's listening to monte talk on the phone with billy?	slunken	Pumpkins Archive	77	05-27-2012 12:14 AM
Comprehensive Zeitgeist List	ordinary apathy	Pumpkins Archive	125	02-20-2010 05:32 AM
has netphoria turned into digg?	lesharvard	Pumpkins Archive	106	05-07-2007 09:17 PM

12-03-2014, 01:39 AM	#2
Shallowed Braindead Posts: 18,608	I agree, and I'd also add its short length to the list of reasons why it's better. I liked Oceania and all, but it overstays its welcome, and I never bother to listen to it because of that. TbK vol 1 and 2 also might have been improved by putting them together instead of spreading the releases so thinly. And then the entire TbK project would make a lot more sense instead of something that's entirely been made up as it goes along.

12-03-2014, 01:53 AM	#3
Sonic Johnny Through Silver In Buds Location: Centralia Posts: 16,502	Cholera is better than AIDS or Ebola

12-03-2014, 01:55 AM	#4
Implosion Demi-God Posts: 454	Wait a while until the novelty of the new album fades. No way will this opinion prevail.

12-03-2014, 02:02 AM	#5
Order 66 Socialphobic Posts: 11,831	it seems to be the fulcrum where he finally let go of pretenses about what a "smashing pumpkins" album is supposed to be (even though zeitgeist and oceania deserve credit for shaking things up in places.) so for that reason i think it'll be looked back on more fondly though they're very different it reminds me a lot of TFE, which was a very personal album without the weight of the brand anchoring him down. likewise monuments is a take on music he listened to growing up. i think it's about a much simpler and innocent time in his life

12-03-2014, 02:05 AM	#7
thedeadofnight Ownz Location: Kent, UK Posts: 610	I thought the same about Oceania when it first came out.....haven't listened to it in over a year

12-03-2014, 02:09 AM	#8
Stinstrom3 Pledge Posts: 51	From the music side of it I think it is without question better than Zeitgeist and Oceania. Hell Dorian alone musically is one of the best songs I think he has written. As unpopular of an opinion as that may be.

12-03-2014, 02:09 AM	#9
Mals Marola Socialphobic Location: Your god damn living room Posts: 10,000	some of the songs are great, probably at least 6 out of the 9, actually, but i feel like it was much more enjoyable listening to these on their own before the album even came out than it is to listen to the whole thing in a proposed album casing or whatever the sugar factor of it all as a whole album though just becomes overwhelming, especially around the run2me-dorian mark/run of tracks

12-03-2014, 02:16 AM	#10
killtrocity Saturday Night Goth Location: POLLOS Posts: 9,207	this was unquestionably designed as a sampler pack to hopefully offer something which might be injected into mainstream radio play but honestly the batting average is just higher amongst this bunch

12-03-2014, 02:20 AM	#12
Stinstrom3 Pledge Posts: 51	I will say I really want to read the lyrics for all the songs. I can only truthfully understand the chorus on the songs and very little in the verses. There may be some good lines of lyrics in the verses that we haven't heard?

12-03-2014, 02:33 AM	#14
Mals Marola Socialphobic Location: Your god damn living room Posts: 10,000	good tunes tho for sure

12-03-2014, 03:06 AM	#16
Bread Regal Banned Posts: 5,711	yeah, the album is full of hooks and while some of them really fail, at least he's trying.

12-03-2014, 04:28 AM	#18
killtrocity Saturday Night Goth Location: POLLOS Posts: 9,207	these songs are soooooo not jimmy... there's this RHCP style swagger going on. Oceania he could have tremendously helped, but this one would not even exist were he in the picture

12-03-2014, 05:13 AM	#19
Sonic Johnny Through Silver In Buds Location: Centralia Posts: 16,502	"RHCP style swagger" is pretty generous. Sounds like wall-eyed Tommy Lee struggling to find the groove in corgan's anemic 2014 riffs. Chad Smith woulda fucked the shit outta those songs.

12-03-2014, 06:04 AM	#22
houseofglass11 Minion of Satan Location: sleuthing around like a worm Posts: 5,692	I disagree to agree about agreeing

12-03-2014, 06:34 AM	#23
Mals Marola Socialphobic Location: Your god damn living room Posts: 10,000	let's agree to disagree, house of disagreements

12-03-2014, 06:44 AM	#24
fuzzyroes Banned Posts: 21,169	the thing thats much better about Zeitgeist is that Billy actually had a lot to say on it. It was a spirited , ambitious effort. You can tell there was passion put into it. Theres some great songs on this album, but I kinda get the vibe that Billys hearts not into it

12-03-2014, 06:46 AM	#25
fuzzyroes Banned Posts: 21,169	I'm just listening to Zeitgeist for the first time in awhile right now and I still don't understand why it generated the response it did. Sure the vocals are a little dry, but it's still a pretty fucking cool album.

12-03-2014, 08:44 AM	#26
s0ss Demi-God Location: Montreal Posts: 395	I'm sure this has no staying power - but I can't even get through Oceania. I give up by the middle and that's with me skipping that first shitty track.

12-03-2014, 09:39 AM	#28
MyOneAndOnly Shut the fuck up! Location: "Okay, white power feminist" - yo soy el mejor Posts: 23,890	It feels to me like THIS is what he should have done in 2009 instead of TBK

12-03-2014, 10:48 AM	#30
Shadaloo Apocalyptic Poster Location: up on the cross you go little fella Posts: 2,676	There's an decent album buried somewhere in Zeitgeist's shit production. When he gets around to reissuing and reworking that, I'm hoping it can be saved a little. The album's got more punch than Oceania, but I find it just as disappointing for different reasons. It's an improvement over most of the initial round of TBK output, I'll give it that.