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05-26-2014, 11:50 PM | #31 |
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yes exactly
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05-26-2014, 11:51 PM | #32 |
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but i mean it's quite a popular argument in favour of keeping people poor, i find
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05-27-2014, 12:05 AM | #33 |
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but then again, it's a choice, isn't it? like being gay.
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05-27-2014, 12:10 AM | #34 |
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damn it trots you're being an idiot in this thread.
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05-27-2014, 12:22 AM | #35 |
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05-27-2014, 09:13 AM | #36 | |
huh
Posts: 62,456
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Quote:
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05-27-2014, 09:13 AM | #37 |
has great self of steam.
Location: SECRET OBAMA FUCKDEN RENDEZVOUS
Posts: 24,305
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Ross Perot funded a kick-ass natural science museum in Dallas, so I can forget the political absurdity. Also, SNL was so great that year.
Nader isn't even a good joke. |
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05-27-2014, 06:04 PM | #38 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: all over the Internet
Posts: 44,548
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I was going to mention the museum! That was cool of him. What has Nader ever done?!
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05-27-2014, 06:18 PM | #39 |
huh
Posts: 62,456
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a fuckton relating to consumer protection, actually
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05-27-2014, 06:21 PM | #40 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: all over the Internet
Posts: 44,548
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that's boring.
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05-27-2014, 06:28 PM | #41 |
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anyone making "minimum wage" aka 15 an hour with a college education in a job that requires one want to weigh in or am i the only one
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05-27-2014, 06:30 PM | #42 | |
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Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
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Quote:
and yes, my position is that 15 dollars is completely ridiculous it is incredibly frustrating to have worked for ten plus years starting at 2.13/hrly with tips to get to this point and tell yourself "you're doin okay, man" to just have this flung in your face that you're still basically minimum wage labor. i really feel like what i'm doing today is a lot more difficult and complex than grocery store clerk. do i feel resentment to the clerk? no. but i think massive minimum wage increases are a shortsighted populist cause. what of the vanishing middle income? it's such an easy thing to do to pretend like you care about the proletarian but ultimately you're just raising the wage and this will ultimately inflate the market especially on commodities that rely on minimum wage labor to make the consumer good affordable, e.g. foodstuffs. over the course of the last few decades we've seen incomes stall out and become stagnant in general, not just the low end of the spectrum. It's using a band aid to stop a gunshot wound. Last edited by Trotskilicious : 05-27-2014 at 07:02 PM. |
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05-27-2014, 06:34 PM | #43 |
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i voted for
gore in 2000 nader in 2004 opama in 2008 roseanne barr in 2012 i will probably write in TOC for 2016 |
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05-27-2014, 06:43 PM | #44 |
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05-27-2014, 06:49 PM | #45 |
huh
Posts: 62,456
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It seems like your biggest issue is not wanting to make money in amounts similar to grocery store clerks. That's pretty shitty, really. Should you be making more? Probably? I don't know. But the first goal is to get everyone to a living wage. Where everyone who works can live. That's more pressing than making sure you feel adequately compensated. I think that should be obvious?
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05-27-2014, 06:51 PM | #46 |
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uh you skipped the economic part about how once you get everyone to a "living wage" all the prices on the "living commodities" will rise to make up for the increase in pay
so you're basically doing nothing but way to center on the personal bit |
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05-27-2014, 06:54 PM | #47 |
huh
Posts: 62,456
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That's not true. Look at the last time minimum wage was raised. Did the price of everything suddenly skyrocket? No. So your economic argument is pretty weak here.
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05-27-2014, 06:55 PM | #48 |
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Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
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also this is capitalism and exploitation of labor is inherent in the system and you're using economic controls that are proven to be ineffective at fixing the issue it is attempting to solve
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05-27-2014, 06:56 PM | #49 | |
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Quote:
i don't want to bust out charts and graphs here because fuck it and i'm done with this thread but feel free to tell me what an idiot i am |
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05-27-2014, 06:56 PM | #50 |
huh
Posts: 62,456
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You're just parroting a republican talking point.
There are arguments made on both sides of this but I've been more convinced by the ones backed by historical sats and whatnot. |
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05-27-2014, 06:57 PM | #51 |
huh
Posts: 62,456
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$15 is not realistic maybe. But it's a starting point to negotiate.
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05-28-2014, 12:14 AM | #52 | |
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Quote:
The law of gravity applies to economics as well. Fast-food owners are already automating certain task and that trend will be expedited by the increased labor cost from min. wage increases. |
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05-28-2014, 12:19 AM | #53 | |
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Quote:
But I agree with your sentiment and it could be had through putting free(r) energy gadgets to market. It would greatly increase purchasing power to individuals...but you gotta negotiate with the freak cabalist for that paradigm shift and that's the battle atm. |
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05-28-2014, 12:24 AM | #54 |
Shut the fuck up!
Location: "Okay, white power feminist" - yo soy el mejor
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Free energy?
WTF? Another conspiracy post thread hijack |
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05-28-2014, 12:27 AM | #55 |
Shut the fuck up!
Location: "Okay, white power feminist" - yo soy el mejor
Posts: 23,879
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Better yet, why not use magic? That'll really increase productivity! Instead of college send all the kids to Hogwarts.
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05-28-2014, 01:07 AM | #56 | |
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Quote:
yes, my perspective on this issue is textbook keynesian economics, but that's not a bad thing necessarily. plus there is also the moral question of whether we should permit employers to have people give them 40 hours per week of their time without giving them enough to take care of themselves in the most fundamental way, forget about saving money. Last edited by Bread Regal : 05-28-2014 at 01:13 AM. |
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05-28-2014, 01:27 AM | #57 |
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I get that you said it would cut into the middle class, but really, what about the lower class. Are they plebs who do not deserve the basic standard of living that allows them to survive in america?
It seems to me that hourly workers with a higher wage have a higher disposable income thereby increasing the velocity of their money through the economy. Or they can elect to work less and use their spare time to make a better future for themselves. They're not trying to scam anybody man they just want their rug back. Since the US has a service economy and our manufacturing sector has been shrinking for however long, it seems to me that if you allow people to develop skills that are valuable to others, they will actually pursue that. Flipping burgers is still flipping burgers and even if you're making $10.10 an hour, you'd probably rather do something else for the same pay. Higher wages would facilitate that lateral transition, would it not? With the exception of the indutries in the private sector which provide the essentials (energy, agriculture, et al), I think it's safe to say that if you can't pay a living wage to your workers without being subsidized, your product isn't worth buying. |
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05-28-2014, 01:37 AM | #58 |
Minion of Satan
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Posts: 7,266
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maybe he's an accelerationist
not really a respectable position but it is an understandable one |
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05-28-2014, 01:42 AM | #59 |
Braindead
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Posts: 16,289
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I thought for sure he was trolling.
Nobody is that conceded |
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05-28-2014, 02:22 AM | #60 |
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you're right, nobody is that conceded
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