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Old 12-12-2014, 10:58 AM   #91
The exploding boy
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Well he's kind of a creep. He's a weirdo.

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Old 12-12-2014, 11:01 AM   #92
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He doesn't belong here and I think he's wondering "what the hell am I doing here?"

 
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Old 12-12-2014, 11:07 AM   #93
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I think what plays against Yorke is being short. Girls don't like short guys. Almost unanimously. I bet he wasn't very popular with them until RH blew up.

 
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Old 12-12-2014, 11:18 AM   #94
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Their drummer the 'popular guy' when they were in highschool?

 
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Old 12-12-2014, 02:14 PM   #95
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who gives a fuck who girls like? yorke just looks like a cool, chill dude.

 
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Old 12-16-2015, 02:23 AM   #96
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https://i.imgur.com/0K64h1x.png

 
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Old 12-16-2015, 03:24 AM   #97
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Old 12-16-2015, 08:14 AM   #98
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I think to look at, Billy was tall with a handsome face and had that all-American appeal. But once they started talking, James and Jimmy were like wooooowwww and Billy was like OMG shut up and stop ruining your face with your talking.

D'arcy was definitely hot.

James is still hot. Oh man....hot hot hot.

 
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Old 12-16-2015, 09:56 AM   #99
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I think Catherine Wheel is actually right about this.

When I was a kid I had SD and MCIS and SP was inescapable in 1995 and 1996... Jimmy leaving wasn't even on my radar at all, I never even thought twice about him not being there when I first watched the Ava Adore video or seeing Matt Walker playing with them at Awards shows... And the first time I saw everlasting Gaze it wasn't like "hey! Jimmy's back!" BUT it was "WTF!?!? Darcy's not even in the band anymore, whys the chick from Hole in the video"?

As a kid if someone asked me the members of SP I would have been able to name Darcy, Iha, Billy and "the other guy".

Goddamn, my adult self wants to kick my child self in the balls.

But it just goes to show the assumed importance of those 2 members to the casual fan.

 
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Old 12-16-2015, 10:21 AM   #100
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hmm.

Then as you get more into the band, you read Billy's rhetoric about how they weren't important and didn't even record Siamese Dream, and you believe it.

Then you get really into it and realize Billy's a twat and James and D'arcy are really important to the band's sound

 
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Old 12-16-2015, 10:34 AM   #101
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It's funny I revisited SP in the midst of all the reunion hooplah cause I was in a stagnant space with what I was listening to, and then I thought: "oh yeah! I used to dig SP- theres a lot there I never got into". So I downloaded the discography and revisited all the albums and the thing that jumped out at me was the sheer electricity of the BC/JC sound pocket explosiveness. I was awe-stuck, and the drumming became one of my favorite aspects of the group.

But as a kid I didn't even appreciate the genius of the drumming. By the time I revisited SP I had been seriously into drumming for 5 years though and it made me realize why SP was such a phenomenon... They spoke to the average listener, and they were a musicians kind of band too. The total package.

 
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Old 12-16-2015, 11:07 AM   #102
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I think people undervalue the worth of D'arcy and Iha... Sure, they were fantastic for the image, and in the 90's that was half the battle. But I think even 10% of their contribution soundwise could really propel what was already a fantastic "base" of a song from the other 2 guys.

Take an iconic song like Zero. Would it be half as memorable without Iha's crazy solo? probably not, that mess of sound acted as pretty much the climax of the song.

Sure, Corgan and JC were the guys taking the bull by the horns and taking the steering wheel, but it's unfair to suggest that the other 2 long term members were just there, being obedient, doing as they were told. No... That's gotta be horseshit. That's just Corgans memory of events

 
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Old 12-16-2015, 11:10 AM   #103
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And as much as I love Zeitgeist, the proofs in the pudding. It's a great record, but it's missing the attitude and effervescent tonal loundscapes that perfectly illustrated the "base" of the song.

Monuments is a pretty damn good record, but it misses the uniqueness, the classic SP "twinges" that we've all came to love. Sure, Billy's the main mastermind, but you can't just downplay the importance of the supporting cast

 
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Old 12-16-2015, 11:11 AM   #104
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The supporting cast may even be Butch Vig and Flood.

Even so, it's clear BC can't capture the music on his own.

 
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Old 12-16-2015, 11:29 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzyroes View Post
the thing that jumped out at me was the sheer electricity of the BC/JC sound pocket explosiveness. I was awe-stuck, and the drumming became one of my favorite aspects of the group.

But as a kid I didn't even appreciate the genius of the drumming. By the time I revisited SP I had been seriously into drumming for 5 years though and it made me realize why SP was such a phenomenon... They spoke to the average listener, and they were a musicians kind of band too. The total package.
That's true. I'm probably taking that for granted at this point, almost.

Like I can't even listen to Nirvana anymore because it's so boring musically and technically

 
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Old 12-16-2015, 12:04 PM   #106
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I kinda know what you mean, like how many times can someone listen to Heartshaped Box and still be stimulated? With that said I've purposely avoided listening to Teen Spirit for several years now and I was walking home the other night listening to some radio stations on my mp3 player and it came on and sounded really awesome and powerful again... Now if I listened to it 4 or 5 times in a row after that it probably wouldn't have, but it's about not listening to something to death.

I mean, if you challenge yourself not to listen to come as you are for 3 or 4 years and then listen to it once you'll probably really enjoy it again that 1 time.

 
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Old 12-16-2015, 12:14 PM   #107
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lol @ the cameraman
I'll just do a slow pan up her sweaty body, and then act like I am interested in filming her head of hair...

 
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Old 12-16-2015, 12:50 PM   #108
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I think the production is the main thing that makes it sound like "old pumpkins". But when Billy plays 98% of the instruments other than the drums and writes 99% of the music that isn't total dogshit it's hard to say he isn't the band. He was just writing better tunes back then, and now he doesn't. Happens to everybody.
I dunno man, I'd really like to hear Iha or Darcys take on things.

Every musicians been in a band with one guy who thinks he's just gods gift to the earth and feels like he's the mastermind even though the other 3 guys are taking pride in all the parts that they've created that the dictator conveniently ignores.

Theres no doubt that Corgans the songwriter taking the wheel in control of the direction, but I find it hard to believe that Iha was nothing but a puppet and hired stage hand. We've heard Billy in the band with Darcy and James and great producers at the helm and we've heard Billy in the band without them with Kerry Brown at the control board... The difference is shocking and could even be perceived as disturbing.

If your suggestion is that Billy's the be-all end-all to the band the results surely aren't in your favor my freind

 
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Old 12-16-2015, 02:06 PM   #109
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you give yourself away with phrases such as "The difference is shocking and could even be perceived as disturbing."

I can see through your reptilian schemes.
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Old 12-16-2015, 03:46 PM   #110
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Billy came up with all the parts and showed them how to play them live
That's definitely not true. The band wrote most of SD touring for Gish and during practice sessions before recording, and they wrote parts as the songs evolved

No way in hell did Billy come in with a fully orchestrated song and tell them exactly what to do

 
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Old 12-16-2015, 04:22 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by fuzzyroes View Post
I think Catherine Wheel is actually right about this.

But it just goes to show the assumed importance of those 2 members to the casual fan.
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hmm.

Then as you get more into the band, you read Billy's rhetoric about how they weren't important and didn't even record Siamese Dream, and you believe it.

Then you get really into it and realize Billy's a twat and James and D'arcy are really important to the band's sound
yeah I also think CW is on the money here. Of course SP was a great band musically, but it's easy to overlook how important the "marketing" aspect of their brand was. Recently people were talking here about Steve Albini who infamously hates the Pumpkins for rocketing to popularity while bands he preferred stagnated. SP was never into the punk ethos where they tried to just be normal people in a band. They were always otherworldly, larger than life, and those theatrics played a big part in the band's popularity. Billy can talk all the shit he wants about being so poor he could only afford to wear thrift store paisley, but the whole thing is a carefully crafted aesthetic. James and D'arcy's coolness factor/sex appeal plays directly into this. I mean Billy Corgan is a world class musician, why else would he enlist D'arcy, who was musically almost a total non-entity?

also to people saying that Billy wrote every guitar part and then taught them to James... listen to the role James played vs. the role Jeff plays. The way they play and complement Billy is totally different. James is not a technically great guitarist but he brought a unique and tangible thing to SP's sound, live especially, that just isn't there anymore.

Last edited by redbreegull : 12-16-2015 at 04:30 PM.

 
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Old 12-16-2015, 04:27 PM   #112
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you know billy corgan is actually a lot like george lucas. He's a talented visionary, but he has no taste. his operation was best at the beginning when he had the most to prove, the least to work with, and was accountable to a lot of other people who helped to temper his vision.

 
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Old 12-16-2015, 04:28 PM   #113
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what I'm saying is when Disney buys SP and cuts b0lly out of the picture, I'm sure Kathleen Kennedy will produce a great SP album for the next generation

 
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Old 12-16-2015, 06:24 PM   #114
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dude, groundbreaking idea! sell your rock band to disney! a first!
after all, b0lly did say at one point that SP might live on without him

 
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Old 12-16-2015, 11:39 PM   #115
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he also thinks that product placement and brand endorsement is the future of music

 
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Old 12-16-2015, 11:42 PM   #116
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today at the grocery store I saw apples in a Star Wars themed bag. This could be the future of SP.

 
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Old 12-16-2015, 11:57 PM   #117
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yeah I also think CW is on the money here. Of course SP was a great band musically, but it's easy to overlook how important the "marketing" aspect of their brand was. Recently people were talking here about Steve Albini who infamously hates the Pumpkins for rocketing to popularity while bands he preferred stagnated. SP was never into the punk ethos where they tried to just be normal people in a band. They were always otherworldly, larger than life, and those theatrics played a big part in the band's popularity. Billy can talk all the shit he wants about being so poor he could only afford to wear thrift store paisley, but the whole thing is a carefully crafted aesthetic. James and D'arcy's coolness factor/sex appeal plays directly into this. I mean Billy Corgan is a world class musician, why else would he enlist D'arcy, who was musically almost a total non-entity?
Yeah you had this great, edgy sounding band and in it you have these 2 members who are extremely good looking, mysterious, cryptic looking with one being a blonde female and the other being an Asian guy. A look like that is too good to be true for an "alternative" band. It's a big reason why SP's success owes so much to their music videos.

SP in a radio age wouldn't have made half as big of an impact. So really, Darcys and James could have literally not contributed one iota of impact to the songwriting and they would have still been very critical to the bands success

 
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Old 12-17-2015, 11:51 AM   #118
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James looks like he could fit right into Boris.

He's got the whole intergalactic impala thing going on.

 
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Old 12-17-2015, 10:44 PM   #119
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Quote:
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Yeah you had this great, edgy sounding band and in it you have these 2 members who are extremely good looking, mysterious, cryptic looking with one being a blonde female and the other being an Asian guy. A look like that is too good to be true for an "alternative" band. It's a big reason why SP's success owes so much to their music videos.

SP in a radio age wouldn't have made half as big of an impact. So really, Darcys and James could have literally not contributed one iota of impact to the songwriting and they would have still been very critical to the bands success
personally I think Billy and Jimmy were also good lookin' lads in their youth. Not so much with the edgy sex appeal type look, but they look like two all American boys, you know?

it's also funny cause the breakdown of the band as 2 people who play their instruments really well and 2 good looking people for the image is Cheap Trick's thing, one of Billy's biggest influences.

 
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Old 12-17-2015, 11:45 PM   #120
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can't we just blame jeff for everything?

 
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