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10-22-2018, 04:12 AM | #1 |
Registered User
Posts: 17,539
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Typical Guardian review of London show
Probably the worst review of a live SP show on the current tour which doesn't seem to reflect the overall crowd experience.
In this 2 star joyless review, Guardianista journalist Kitty Empire seems to have been successfully trolled by Corgan. Takes issue at D'Arcy not being there and Jack Bates' slobbish attire. https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...y-arena-london |
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10-22-2018, 11:21 AM | #2 |
Socialphobic
Location: Your god damn living room
Posts: 10,000
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Ok, they can come for Corgan, they can snark about D'arcy, but don't they DARE touch our little Jack Bates
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10-22-2018, 03:41 PM | #3 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: Donald Trump of Netphoria
Posts: 37,215
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That's goddamned right!
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10-22-2018, 03:43 PM | #4 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: Donald Trump of Netphoria
Posts: 37,215
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"On bass is Jack Bates (son of Peter Hook), whose white trainers and polo shirt lean more towards Oasis tribute band..."
LOL |
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10-23-2018, 02:39 PM | #5 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,114
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I was at this corporate event in Manchester last year where an Oasis tribute band was playing.
They all had infinitely more stage presence than Jack Bates. |
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10-23-2018, 03:01 PM | #6 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: SP, Sao Paulo - Brazil
Posts: 4,846
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Another Guardian review of the same gig - 4 stars
https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...y-arena-london |
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10-23-2018, 03:25 PM | #7 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Banned
Posts: 8,851
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Jack Bates is an empowered bassist who likes to perform in what makes him comfortable, how dare the Guardian put so much emphasis on the clothing choices of a serious artist?
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10-23-2018, 03:25 PM | #8 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Banned
Posts: 8,851
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You think you can dress better than Jack Bates?
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10-23-2018, 04:14 PM | #9 | |
real estate cowboy
Location: if Monsanto and Purdue Pharma had a baby
Posts: 36,881
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Quote:
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10-23-2018, 04:31 PM | #10 |
Ownz
Posts: 633
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I wonder if they would have critiqued the bassist's wardrobe had they still been a woman. Bet'n not.
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10-23-2018, 04:41 PM | #11 |
Socialphobic
Location: Your god damn living room
Posts: 10,000
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wh'gives a shit tho
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10-23-2018, 04:42 PM | #12 |
real estate cowboy
Location: if Monsanto and Purdue Pharma had a baby
Posts: 36,881
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Yeah, women's wardrobes are never discussed.
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10-23-2018, 04:45 PM | #13 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: SP, Sao Paulo - Brazil
Posts: 4,846
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They talk about Billy's wardrobe and he's a diva.
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10-23-2018, 04:59 PM | #14 |
Socialphobic
Location: Your god damn living room
Posts: 10,000
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Who even needs to pick apart his wardrobe when there's a billy christ statue involved
a billy christ statue |
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10-23-2018, 06:28 PM | #15 | |
Pledge
Posts: 225
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Quote:
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10-23-2018, 06:57 PM | #16 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Travelling between Ukraine and Russia
Posts: 5,305
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------------->http://forums.netphoria.org/customav...tar25775_8.gif
------------->http://forums.netphoria.org/customav...tar25775_8.gif ------------->http://forums.netphoria.org/customav...tar25775_8.gif ------------->http://forums.netphoria.org/customav...tar25775_8.gif ------------->http://forums.netphoria.org/customav...tar25775_8.gif ------------->http://forums.netphoria.org/customav...tar25775_8.gif ------------->http://forums.netphoria.org/customav...tar25775_8.gif ------------->http://forums.netphoria.org/customav...tar25775_8.gif https://www.maennersache.de/assets/s...?itok=J-B06j7i Last edited by Corgan's Bluff : 10-24-2018 at 12:15 PM. Reason: Drown under water and shit |
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10-23-2018, 07:00 PM | #17 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Travelling between Ukraine and Russia
Posts: 5,305
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Smashing Pumpkins review – it’s just me, myself and I
2 / 5 stars 2 out of 5 stars. Wembley Arena, London You can’t fault their energy but, at three hours long and with countless costume changes, the 90s rock gods’ reunion show is all about singer Billy Corgan’s huge ego Kitty Empire Sun 21 Oct 2018 https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...y-arena-london https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...a-london#img-1 ‘Rocking looks that range from little-Nosferatu-lost to cybergoth monk’: Smashing Pumpkins’ Billy Corgan at Wembley Arena last week. The stage is bare except for a solitary mic stand. When the curtains part, they reveal Smashing Pumpkins’ singer and guitarist Billy Corgan, dressed sombrely, except for some flapping silver fabric that looks like half a skirt. An acoustic guitar slung around his shoulders, backlit, Corgan basks for some moments in the cheers of the near-capacity arena. Then he kicks off the penultimate date of this much-vaunted Smashing Pumpkins reunion tour with – of all things – a solo acoustic track. The scene-setter is Disarm, first released on Siamese Dream, the Pumpkins’ 1993 album. It is perhaps the singer-songwriter’s most poignant few minutes, in which he addresses the abuse he suffered as a child. Infamously, the 90s alt-rock titan didn’t write a vengeful grunge kiss-off, but a furred, blithe ache of a tune, that sought to “disarm” his childhood tormentors “with a smile”. Throughout, Super-8 films and childhood pictures flash up, scribbled over, his eyes x-ed out; as the song ends, Corgan, 51, turns to the backdrop and salutes his younger self. It is, on one level, hugely moving. Anyone who has made it out of an unhappy youth deserves to pay tribute to their powerless larval phase, to hug the kid they were and tell them that it is all going to turn out OK, give or take a few dodgy pro-wrestling ventures (Corgan runs one). There is, however, something a little telling about starting one of the most-vaunted reunion tours of recent years with a song that makes a point of excising the rest of your band from the get-go. The Pumpkins were very much a band that had their cake and ate it, garnering critical acclaim and selling piles of records hand-over-fist during the last hurrah of the albums industry. They will forever be associated with the 90s, but their sound has aged remarkably well. The band finally arrive for Rocket, an early triumph from Siamese Dream, its circular guitar riff searingly loud. Soon, we’re into Siva, the loftiest peak of the Pumpkins’ immense debut album, Gish (1991), ebbing and squalling. You cannot fault this three-hour set for its three-guitar assault, which sometimes verges, enthrallingly, on scientific experiment as roiling, distorted guitars make like low-flying aircraft and shake the plastic seats on songs such as Drown and Porcelina of the Vast Oceans, whose sprawling length apes the live excesses of the Cure. You could, though, just come for the first third and the final third, leaving out the portentous cover of David Bowie’s Space Oddity that Corgan sings from atop a metal staircase wheeled on for the purpose, and, indeed, the whole middle hour, in which the early promise of Gish and Siamese Dream gives way to a series of more long-winded iterations of Corgan’s once appealing melodic and thematic signatures. The absence of Wretszky is either not addressed or, perhaps, dealt with indirectly The singer, who despite being on an extensive tour welcomed a baby daughter earlier this month, changes costume frequently, rocking looks that range from little-Nosferatu-lost to cybergoth monk to silver-hatted Elton John-alike at the piano to medievally robed mage. For the encore, he’s a ringmaster and sports a fez with a handle on top. The visuals obsess over showgirls and Catholic imagery, Italian futurism, zoetropes and magick. At some point, Danish singer Amalie Bruun sings a cover of Fleetwood Mac’s Landslide. Its sole purpose, it seems, is to delay the rest of the good Pumpkins tunes: a superb Cherub Rock, and the instances after Siamese Dream when Corgan managed to bottle lightning again – Ava Adore from 1998, and Bullet With Butterfly Wings, from 1995’s career-peak double album, Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness. “Despite all my rage, I am still just a rat in a cage,” snarls Corgan, uncharacteristically nailing a feeling that every malcontent acquainted with amplification can relate to. His other lyrics mostly tend to the solipsistic and oblique. Corgan may subcontract a number of guitar solos of the reunion tonight, but no one who has ever dallied with the Pumpkins over the past 30 years has ever been in any doubt that it is, categorically, the William Patrick Corgan show. This Shiny and Oh So Bright tour was meant to mark a break from the largely solo iteration of the Pumpkins that has been operational for more than a decade, with the band’s imperial 90s line-up burying hatchets, unspooling the hits and recording new songs as a group. https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...a-london#img-2 The first part of a two-part album – Shiny and Oh So Bright – produced by Rick Rubin, is coming on 16 November, subtitled Volume 1: No Past. No Future. No Sun. We get a pretty decent song from it in the encore. But the album, and the tour, are operating at 75% authenticity. Corgan, original guitarist James Iha (in a dapper white suit) and founding drummer Jimmy Chamberlin are joined by supplementary axeman Jeff Shroeder, on board since 2007, and keyboard player Katie Cole. Shroeder, not Corgan, plays Jimmy Page on the Pumpkins’ quite unnecessary rendition of Stairway to Heaven. On bass is Jack Bates (son of Peter Hook), whose white trainers and polo shirt lean more towards Oasis tribute band than the stylised rococo medieval Pinterest mood board Corgan has been refreshing for some years. Bates stands in for original bassist, D’arcy Wretzky, who left the band in 1999 battling addiction; she now works with horses. As Wretzky has told it, through a series of screen grabs of text messages between herself and Corgan and an extraordinary interview in February, the negotiations for her re-entry to the band were fraught, with money and the extent of her contribution contentious issues. (The band line goes thus: “Despite reports, Ms Wretzky has repeatedly been invited out to play with the group, participate in demo sessions, or at the very least, meet face-to-face, and in each and every instance she always deferred.”) As the Pumpkins revisit half a dozen of their albums, the absence of Wretzky is either not addressed or, perhaps, dealt with indirectly. During Try Try Try, the band’s sympathetic anti-addiction song from 2000’s Machina/The Machines of God album, the backdrop features a video of a bleached blond woman shooting up with glowing drugs apparatus, then waking to fumble around with empty wine bottles. It is all pretty dispiriting, this . Not even a churn through the beatifically heavy Today can derail one overarching impression: that three hours with any line-up of the Smashing Pumpkins is roughly two hours too many inside the mind of Billy Corgan. The visuals for Today feature a reimagined tarot deck; virtually every image features a figure that looks suspiciously like Corgan. Smashing Pumpkins review – still miles ahead of their rivals 4/5 stars 4 out of 5 stars. Wembley Arena, London Three hours of Billy Corgan’s alt-rockers is a lot, but the sheer inventiveness and breadth of their back catalogue makes this 30th-anniversary tour a joy Michael Hann Wed 17 Oct 2018 Last modified on Fri 19 Oct 2018 https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...y-arena-london https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...a-london#img-1 Thoroughly entertaining … Smashing Pumpkins at Wembley Arena. There comes a point in Smashing Pumpkins’ 30th anniversary show when any rational person might think enough really is enough. That point is when the band tick over into their third hour on stage by embarking on a faithful rendition of Stairway to Heaven while what appears to be a woodland throne decorated with fairy lights makes its way from one side of the audience to the other. What next? A version of Moby Dick with an actual whale brought out from backstage? That this doesn’t serve as a salutary lesson in the perils of excess is testimony to the depth and breadth of Smashing Pumpkins’ catalogue. Despite their initial association with grunge, they were never one-dimensional shouters, and the best moments tonight come with their drifts towards tightly constructed AOR, on 1979 and the sublime Try Try Try, or where droning guitars mesh high and low notes, on Rhinoceros or Drown. Billy Corgan has a facility with melody and an interest in tone and texture that is miles ahead of most of his alt-rock contemporaries. https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...a-london#img-2 Never short on self-importance ... Billy Corgan of Smashing Pumpkins. Yet this first visit to the UK since guitarist James Iha and drummer Jimmy Chamberlin rejoined hasn’t quite filled Wembley Arena– there are patches of empty seats – which leads one to wonder why this band, whose take on a fairly limited formula is so inventive, don’t have the pulling power of the much more workaday Pearl Jam. Perhaps that’s down to Corgan, whose press persona and sense of style have always suggested the kind of man who might file his teeth into fangs in order to open the most intimidating occult shop in Nuneaton. He’s never been short on self-importance and he rolls it out for us tonight: there’s a fabulously pretentious prerecorded speech played on a big screen, a cover of Space Oddity that Corgan performs, wearing a hooded cloak, on top of a podium behind the drum riser, and a couple of songs on which he seems to be playing piano on a pulpit. It’s barking, but in a thoroughly entertaining way. Three hours, truthfully, is more than enough. But a show that might have scared the faint of heart turns out to be a bit of a treat. Last edited by Corgan's Bluff : 10-23-2018 at 07:07 PM. |
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10-23-2018, 07:38 PM | #18 |
Banned
Posts: 21,169
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Seems to be a fair review. I thought the stage show being all about Billy was very petty and in bad taste too... Especially considering the circumstances...
Could you imagine Eddie Vedder or Kurt doing something like that? I'm just surprised Jimmy and Iha played along with it. |
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10-23-2018, 07:47 PM | #19 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: Donald Trump of Netphoria
Posts: 37,215
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Smashing Pumpkins review – it’s just me, myself and I
2 / 5 stars 2 out of 5 stars. Wembley Arena, London You can’t fault their energy but, at three hours long and with countless costume changes, the 90s rock gods’ reunion show is all about singer Billy Corgan’s huge ego Kitty Empire Sun 21 Oct 2018 https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...y-arena-london ‘Rocking looks that range from little-Nosferatu-lost to cybergoth monk’: Smashing Pumpkins’ Billy Corgan at Wembley Arena last week. The stage is bare except for a solitary mic stand. When the curtains part, they reveal Smashing Pumpkins’ singer and guitarist Billy Corgan, dressed sombrely, except for some flapping silver fabric that looks like half a skirt. An acoustic guitar slung around his shoulders, backlit, Corgan basks for some moments in the cheers of the near-capacity arena. Then he kicks off the penultimate date of this much-vaunted Smashing Pumpkins reunion tour with – of all things – a solo acoustic track. The scene-setter is Disarm, first released on Siamese Dream, the Pumpkins’ 1993 album. It is perhaps the singer-songwriter’s most poignant few minutes, in which he addresses the abuse he suffered as a child. Infamously, the 90s alt-rock titan didn’t write a vengeful grunge kiss-off, but a furred, blithe ache of a tune, that sought to “disarm” his childhood tormentors “with a smile”. Throughout, Super-8 films and childhood pictures flash up, scribbled over, his eyes x-ed out; as the song ends, Corgan, 51, turns to the backdrop and salutes his younger self. It is, on one level, hugely moving. Anyone who has made it out of an unhappy youth deserves to pay tribute to their powerless larval phase, to hug the kid they were and tell them that it is all going to turn out OK, give or take a few dodgy pro-wrestling ventures (Corgan runs one). There is, however, something a little telling about starting one of the most-vaunted reunion tours of recent years with a song that makes a point of excising the rest of your band from the get-go. The Pumpkins were very much a band that had their cake and ate it, garnering critical acclaim and selling piles of records hand-over-fist during the last hurrah of the albums industry. They will forever be associated with the 90s, but their sound has aged remarkably well. The band finally arrive for Rocket, an early triumph from Siamese Dream, its circular guitar riff searingly loud. Soon, we’re into Siva, the loftiest peak of the Pumpkins’ immense debut album, Gish (1991), ebbing and squalling. You cannot fault this three-hour set for its three-guitar assault, which sometimes verges, enthrallingly, on scientific experiment as roiling, distorted guitars make like low-flying aircraft and shake the plastic seats on songs such as Drown and Porcelina of the Vast Oceans, whose sprawling length apes the live excesses of the Cure. You could, though, just come for the first third and the final third, leaving out the portentous cover of David Bowie’s Space Oddity that Corgan sings from atop a metal staircase wheeled on for the purpose, and, indeed, the whole middle hour, in which the early promise of Gish and Siamese Dream gives way to a series of more long-winded iterations of Corgan’s once appealing melodic and thematic signatures. The absence of Wretszky is either not addressed or, perhaps, dealt with indirectly The singer, who despite being on an extensive tour welcomed a baby daughter earlier this month, changes costume frequently, rocking looks that range from little-Nosferatu-lost to cybergoth monk to silver-hatted Elton John-alike at the piano to medievally robed mage. For the encore, he’s a ringmaster and sports a fez with a handle on top. The visuals obsess over showgirls and Catholic imagery, Italian futurism, zoetropes and magick. At some point, Danish singer Amalie Bruun sings a cover of Fleetwood Mac’s Landslide. Its sole purpose, it seems, is to delay the rest of the good Pumpkins tunes: a superb Cherub Rock, and the instances after Siamese Dream when Corgan managed to bottle lightning again – Ava Adore from 1998, and Bullet With Butterfly Wings, from 1995’s career-peak double album, Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness. “Despite all my rage, I am still just a rat in a cage,” snarls Corgan, uncharacteristically nailing a feeling that every malcontent acquainted with amplification can relate to. His other lyrics mostly tend to the solipsistic and oblique. Corgan may subcontract a number of guitar solos of the reunion tonight, but no one who has ever dallied with the Pumpkins over the past 30 years has ever been in any doubt that it is, categorically, the William Patrick Corgan show. This Shiny and Oh So Bright tour was meant to mark a break from the largely solo iteration of the Pumpkins that has been operational for more than a decade, with the band’s imperial 90s line-up burying hatchets, unspooling the hits and recording new songs as a group. The first part of a two-part album – Shiny and Oh So Bright – produced by Rick Rubin, is coming on 16 November, subtitled Volume 1: No Past. No Future. No Sun. We get a pretty decent song from it in the encore. But the album, and the tour, are operating at 75% authenticity. Corgan, original guitarist James Iha (in a dapper white suit) and founding drummer Jimmy Chamberlin are joined by supplementary axeman Jeff Shroeder, on board since 2007, and keyboard player Katie Cole. Shroeder, not Corgan, plays Jimmy Page on the Pumpkins’ quite unnecessary rendition of Stairway to Heaven. On bass is Jack Bates (son of Peter Hook), whose white trainers and polo shirt lean more towards Oasis tribute band than the stylised rococo medieval Pinterest mood board Corgan has been refreshing for some years. Bates stands in for original bassist, D’arcy Wretzky, who left the band in 1999 battling addiction; she now works with horses. As Wretzky has told it, through a series of screen grabs of text messages between herself and Corgan and an extraordinary interview in February, the negotiations for her re-entry to the band were fraught, with money and the extent of her contribution contentious issues. (The band line goes thus: “Despite reports, Ms Wretzky has repeatedly been invited out to play with the group, participate in demo sessions, or at the very least, meet face-to-face, and in each and every instance she always deferred.”) As the Pumpkins revisit half a dozen of their albums, the absence of Wretzky is either not addressed or, perhaps, dealt with indirectly. During Try Try Try, the band’s sympathetic anti-addiction song from 2000’s Machina/The Machines of God album, the backdrop features a video of a bleached blond woman shooting up with glowing drugs apparatus, then waking to fumble around with empty wine bottles. It is all pretty dispiriting, this . Not even a churn through the beatifically heavy Today can derail one overarching impression: that three hours with any line-up of the Smashing Pumpkins is roughly two hours too many inside the mind of Billy Corgan. The visuals for Today feature a reimagined tarot deck; virtually every image features a figure that looks suspiciously like Corgan. Smashing Pumpkins review – still miles ahead of their rivals 4/5 stars 4 out of 5 stars. Wembley Arena, London Three hours of Billy Corgan’s alt-rockers is a lot, but the sheer inventiveness and breadth of their back catalogue makes this 30th-anniversary tour a joy Michael Hann Wed 17 Oct 2018 Last modified on Fri 19 Oct 2018 https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...y-arena-london Thoroughly entertaining … Smashing Pumpkins at Wembley Arena. There comes a point in Smashing Pumpkins’ 30th anniversary show when any rational person might think enough really is enough. That point is when the band tick over into their third hour on stage by embarking on a faithful rendition of Stairway to Heaven while what appears to be a woodland throne decorated with fairy lights makes its way from one side of the audience to the other. What next? A version of Moby Dick with an actual whale brought out from backstage? That this doesn’t serve as a salutary lesson in the perils of excess is testimony to the depth and breadth of Smashing Pumpkins’ catalogue. Despite their initial association with grunge, they were never one-dimensional shouters, and the best moments tonight come with their drifts towards tightly constructed AOR, on 1979 and the sublime Try Try Try, or where droning guitars mesh high and low notes, on Rhinoceros or Drown. Billy Corgan has a facility with melody and an interest in tone and texture that is miles ahead of most of his alt-rock contemporaries. Never short on self-importance ... Billy Corgan of Smashing Pumpkins. Yet this first visit to the UK since guitarist James Iha and drummer Jimmy Chamberlin rejoined hasn’t quite filled Wembley Arena– there are patches of empty seats – which leads one to wonder why this band, whose take on a fairly limited formula is so inventive, don’t have the pulling power of the much more workaday Pearl Jam. Perhaps that’s down to Corgan, whose press persona and sense of style have always suggested the kind of man who might file his teeth into fangs in order to open the most intimidating occult shop in Nuneaton. He’s never been short on self-importance and he rolls it out for us tonight: there’s a fabulously pretentious prerecorded speech played on a big screen, a cover of Space Oddity that Corgan performs, wearing a hooded cloak, on top of a podium behind the drum riser, and a couple of songs on which he seems to be playing piano on a pulpit. It’s barking, but in a thoroughly entertaining way. Three hours, truthfully, is more than enough. But a show that might have scared the faint of heart turns out to be a bit of a treat. |
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10-23-2018, 07:47 PM | #20 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: Donald Trump of Netphoria
Posts: 37,215
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Last edited by Corgan's Bluff : Today at 07:07 PM.
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10-23-2018, 07:58 PM | #21 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Travelling between Ukraine and Russia
Posts: 5,305
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Was something wrong going on with Netphoria again. I only did corrections within my post...
Last edited by Corgan's Bluff : 10-24-2018 at 12:20 PM. |
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10-23-2018, 08:09 PM | #22 |
Ownz
Posts: 633
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I think what they don't say speaks volumes, and they say nothing.
The irony of it is that through Billy being the complete opposite of humble, I'm sure they've learned to be very humble. Billy's loss in that regard, is probably their gain, in the grand scheme of things. |
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10-23-2018, 09:06 PM | #23 |
BOTTLEG ILLEGAL
Location: I'm faced with so many changes that I just might change my face
Posts: 32,800
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that 2 star review suspiciously reads like at least a 3 star review. "they sound really good but play too long and billy corgan is an egomaniac"
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10-23-2018, 09:26 PM | #24 | |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,749
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Quote:
1/5 stars |
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10-23-2018, 10:41 PM | #25 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Banned
Posts: 8,851
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"I liked every part of it, but overall, I hated it."
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10-24-2018, 12:41 AM | #26 | |
Socialphobic
Location: we are champions, bathed in the heat of a thousand flame wars in the grim future of the internet there is only netphoria
Posts: 12,467
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Quote:
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10-24-2018, 01:55 AM | #27 |
Braindead
Location: Ignore List
Posts: 17,229
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10-24-2018, 06:41 AM | #28 |
Pledge
Posts: 225
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Worth noting the writers won't actually have had a final say in the star rating, headline or standfirst.
I actually think they're both *reasonably* good reviews actually. And I often hate Michael Hann's writing. |
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10-24-2018, 07:02 AM | #29 |
Registered User
Posts: 17,539
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I'm telling him you said that.
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10-24-2018, 12:01 PM | #30 |
Socialphobic
Location: Your god damn living room
Posts: 10,000
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Not if I do first!
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