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08-25-2005, 01:31 AM | #31 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: sacramento, ca, usa
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08-25-2005, 03:39 AM | #32 | |
Master of Karate and Friendship
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08-25-2005, 04:23 AM | #33 | |
The Man of Tomorrow
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Salt Lake City, Utah - Illegal and brutally violent military
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08-25-2005, 07:57 AM | #34 | |
Master of Karate and Friendship
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Salt Lake City, Utah - Illegal and brutally violent military
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08-25-2005, 11:10 AM | #35 | |
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Re: Re: Salt Lake City, Utah - Illegal and brutally violent military incident
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08-25-2005, 11:14 AM | #36 | |
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08-25-2005, 11:15 AM | #37 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Salt Lake City, Utah - Illegal and brutally violent military
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When have you ever seen SWAT police in camo? ..... I've been to raves with 50,000 people, with Police there, in uniform and undercover, and even if people do get busted there for drugs, they don't start beating the whole crowd senselessly they remove the people who were involved with the drug trafficing and thats it |
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08-25-2005, 01:12 PM | #38 | |
The Man of Tomorrow
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Salt Lake City, Utah - Illegal and brutally violent m
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08-25-2005, 04:27 PM | #39 |
Demi-God
Location: engine room
Posts: 440
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look, if laws were broken at this rave, the cops were with in their right to shut the even down. having said that, slc law enforcement is notoriously brutal. if i had to guess, i'd say both sides were lying to some degree.
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08-25-2005, 05:05 PM | #40 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 7,240
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Salt Lake City, Utah - Illegal and brutally violent military
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And if I may ask, what aspect of my comments about the dog do you take issue with? |
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08-25-2005, 05:21 PM | #41 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 3,336
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Salt Lake City, Utah - Illegal and brutally violent m
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08-25-2005, 05:36 PM | #42 | |
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Salt Lake City, Utah - Illegal and brutally viole
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08-25-2005, 06:30 PM | #43 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Salt Lake City, Utah - Illegal and brutally v
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08-25-2005, 06:35 PM | #44 |
Quaid Hates You
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 14,155
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I could subdue 3 very small females on my own.
The police dont know how to work their sweet talkin' and mojo. |
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08-25-2005, 06:37 PM | #45 | |
Quaid Hates You
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 14,155
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http://www.worth1000.com/web/media/2...obhalford2.jpg |
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08-25-2005, 06:43 PM | #46 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 7,240
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Salt Lake City, Utah - Illegal and brutally v
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The question isn't whether or not 3 officers was the minimum necessary to overpower this woman. One officer could probably pull it off, but not without great risk to himself and great risk to the suspect. I think you underestimate the damage a person can do when they're biting, scratching, flailing etc. in desperate attempt to get away at any costs. People can be hard to subdue when they're motivated, even small females. It's the police's duty to take care of things in a way that puts the fewest people at risk...no matter if it looks bad on them. |
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08-25-2005, 06:43 PM | #47 | |
CORNFROST
Location: GUREITO DESU YO
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Salt Lake City, Utah - Illegal and brutally violent m
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As far as the dog goes, it's pretty obvious that if a dog attacks you you're likely to react in a fairly instinctual way to get the fuck away from it. To say that doing this consitutes 'resisting arrest' and therefore requires some stomach kicking is pretty stupid |
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08-25-2005, 07:33 PM | #48 | |
Master of Karate and Friendship
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Salt Lake City, Utah - Illegal and brutally viole
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The tape doesn't show any brutality and it shows party goers milling about and filing out. And yet this is offered af proof of "fascism."
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08-25-2005, 07:34 PM | #49 | |
Master of Karate and Friendship
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Salt Lake City, Utah - Illegal and brutally viole
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This is another example of what's wrong with bloggers as news reporters. They run with unsubstantiated claims as if they were proven facts.
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08-25-2005, 08:16 PM | #50 | |||||
Apocalyptic Poster
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08-25-2005, 08:47 PM | #51 | ||||
Master of Karate and Friendship
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I'm not the one making assumptions - I'm going on all of the evidence that's presented by both sides, and by history having seen ravers at raves and knowing what goes on there.
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08-25-2005, 08:53 PM | #52 | ||
Minion of Satan
Location: Arkansas
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Somehow I don't think that saying "But it was a girl, he should have been able to take her!" is going to console a grieving spouse in the event that the kind of assumptions you're talking about turn out wrong. A small female who disregards police orders is every bit as dangerous as a large male. |
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08-25-2005, 09:16 PM | #53 | ||
Minion of Satan
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 7,240
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Salt Lake City, Utah - Illegal and brutally violent m
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08-25-2005, 10:32 PM | #54 | |||
CORNFROST
Location: GUREITO DESU YO
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Salt Lake City, Utah - Illegal and brutally v
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08-25-2005, 11:13 PM | #55 | |||
Minion of Satan
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 7,240
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Salt Lake City, Utah - Illegal and brutally v
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My premise is as follows: 1) Police dogs don't randomly attack. They go after who they're told. So I believe that for some reason the officers sent the dog after the girl. I find it unlikely that the police dog did anything other than what its handler wanted it to. I think common sense at least gives a presumption that the officer had good reason to use the dog, and wasn't just picking out random females to sic the dog on. and 2) After it became necessary to use the dog, there were seperate reasons (namely, the girls apparent continued refusal to submit to the dog/cops) that indicated that it might have been necessary for the officers to restrain her physically. In which case, if 3 cops was what was needed to do it safely, then thats how many it should have taken (and no more). That's what I was talking about when I said "its acceptable if it was necessary." It was supposed to be a narrow point about the use of physical force, not about the encounter overall. Quote:
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08-26-2005, 12:09 PM | #56 | |||
CORNFROST
Location: GUREITO DESU YO
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Salt Lake City, Utah - Illegal and br
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I know you're talking about both stages separately but ultimately it's the same thing when you're talking about justification without evidence or, worse, 'evidence' like this: Quote:
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08-26-2005, 05:09 PM | #57 | |||
Minion of Satan
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 7,240
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Salt Lake City, Utah - Illegal and br
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08-26-2005, 06:55 PM | #58 | |
The Man of Tomorrow
Posts: 26,965
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Salt Lake City, Utah - Illegal and brutally violent m
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As far as dictating how many cops it should take to bring someone down, that's missing the point. Like you said, on it's face it seems excessive, and the cops would have to prove it was justified.
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08-26-2005, 07:05 PM | #59 | ||
The Man of Tomorrow
Posts: 26,965
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Salt Lake City, Utah - Illegal and brutally violent military incident
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08-26-2005, 07:09 PM | #60 |
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Location: In my house.
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It seems that were all missing one major point here: these kids were probably mormon.
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