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Old 06-27-2018, 10:54 PM   #181
WakaFlocka
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You mean the tour where Billy brought up random audience members to berate them or pretend they’re James Iha?
come on now, how many times did this actually even happen? maybe 2 videos out there or even stories for that matter about him doing this? sure that tour had it's shameful moments but a few machina shows went pretty sour too you know.

if you think about it billy has been some type of dramatic on each one of SP's tours

i think during 2007-8 he was just a little bitter about the absence of the other 2 members despite what he was saying in public.. him and jimmy still managed to put on some amazing live performances in that era.. jeff, lisa, and ginger also sounded great with the band in their beginnings too.

 
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Old 06-27-2018, 11:05 PM   #182
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even though this era is generally looked down upon it's just the last time i remember ever really feeling excited about the music and how billy still sounded half decent.

i'll take this era over anything post 2008 any day.. come on people




proper use of the harmonica here (at least more so than the shit he was blowing over the ogilala songs live)




rocking the hell out with uli jon roth!? yes, this is the last time billy was still somewhat cool


 
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Old 06-27-2018, 11:32 PM   #183
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Studio wise

OC > Solara > ZG

Touring wise

ZG >>>>> OC

 
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Old 06-28-2018, 01:21 AM   #184
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Old 06-28-2018, 01:48 AM   #185
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Old 07-07-2018, 03:33 AM   #186
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...remember when Billy talked about Jimmy making one mistake during the recording of 'United States' ? Has anyone ever been able to find that one mistake ?

 
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Old 07-07-2018, 04:21 AM   #187
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Picking up the sticks?

 
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Old 07-07-2018, 10:47 AM   #188
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D'arcy:

"Everyone who knows Billy knows he's ALWAYS been severely hypocritical!

Why should everyone have to play perfectly?
but he can sing like shit and so out of tune it's not even in the same key as the song?
for years of shows!
(if you want to call it singing)

But that's perfectly FINE.

It was TORTURE."

 
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Old 07-07-2018, 12:24 PM   #189
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...remember when Billy talked about Jimmy making one mistake during the recording of 'United States' ? Has anyone ever been able to find that one mistake ?
IIRC he just miscounted the ambient section and comes in 2 bars earlier than he should have before the "Fight, I wanna fight" section. But it's barely noticeable in the sense that the rest of the band just moved up 2 bars while recording.

 
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Old 07-07-2018, 12:36 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by WakaFlocka View Post
come on now, how many times did this actually even happen? maybe 2 videos out there or even stories for that matter about him doing this? sure that tour had it's shameful moments but a few machina shows went pretty sour too you know.

if you think about it billy has been some type of dramatic on each one of SP's tours

i think during 2007-8 he was just a little bitter about the absence of the other 2 members despite what he was saying in public.. him and jimmy still managed to put on some amazing live performances in that era.. jeff, lisa, and ginger also sounded great with the band in their beginnings too.
Coming into conflict with hecklers was a feature of the 2008 20th anniversary shows. It happened more than once or twice, enough that people were theorizing the hecklers were planted. I was at the show where he brought the woman onstage who claimed she was James Iha. For me, the whole thing just enhanced the experience

I seem to be in the minority, but I saw the band 5 times between their "revival" and when Jimmy left, and I thought they played better each consecutive time I saw them. I was a big fan of the 20th anniversary shows

 
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Old 07-07-2018, 12:39 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by DaveKShape View Post
IIRC he just miscounted the ambient section and comes in 2 bars earlier than he should have before the "Fight, I wanna fight" section. But it's barely noticeable in the sense that the rest of the band just moved up 2 bars while recording.

?

Where exactly >>>



 
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Old 07-07-2018, 12:55 PM   #192
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I believe BC said JC didn't play to a click but was metronomic through the entire take save for 1 note.

 
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Old 07-07-2018, 02:23 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by WakaFlocka View Post
come on now, how many times did this actually even happen? maybe 2 videos out there or even stories for that matter about him doing this? sure that tour had it's shameful moments but a few machina shows went pretty sour too you know. .
Do you have any dates or examples of this?
I can only really recall just tons of dumb banter, nothing I'd think was the show going sour?
So salacious

 
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Old 07-09-2018, 09:38 PM   #194
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Zeitgeist was kind of a mixed bag. I feel like it's an okay album, but it should have been a GREAT album. I remember how stoked I was when I heard that SP was back together (well, the two most important pieces of the band, at least). And there are some songs on it that I think are really good. I love Starz (I know people poke fun at it because the title is stupid but I think it's one of the more interesting songs on the album), Come On Let's Go, Bring the Light, United States and even Tarantula. But the rest of it is somewhere between average and bad. Although I suppose in a way, it's the album Pumpkins fans should have expected, since (as per usual) Billy, in his infinite wisdom, left some of the best songs he wrote off the album (Zeitgeist, STELLAR), and some were never even recorded in the studio (Gossamer).

I think the American Gothic songs were written after this album was finished, when SP was doing the residency shows but it's a shame that they didn't hold them for a full-length follow-up that might have gotten more attention, because those ones were really good and much better than the majority of Zeitgeist. Sunkissed in particular is fantastic.

But anyway, even if the final verdict on Zeitgeist is that it sucked, I can't rip too badly because I got to see SP at one of the Asheville residency shows and it remains the best concert of my life. Three straight hours in a fairly small club and they fucking killed it. I'll never forget it and I caught Billy's guitar pick when he chucked it into the crowd during Silverfuck. It has little 0 on it.

 
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Old 07-22-2018, 03:03 AM   #195
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Old 07-23-2018, 10:05 AM   #196
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I went back and listened to Zeitgeist the other day. Man, some of that album was worse than I remember. The vocals on Doomsday Clock and Orchid are especially shitty.

 
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Old 07-24-2018, 08:54 AM   #197
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ZG had some memorable songs but it's not the kind of record I can listen to from start to finish (SD, Adore, Machina). I don’t revisit ZG. Oceania was easier to listen all the way through. Take The Celestials out of it and it’s a decent album.

 
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Old 07-24-2018, 10:39 AM   #198
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If memory serves me right, there were a lot of songs written during the Zeitgeist sessions that didn't see the light of day (I think there was a billboard with song titles etc). Judging by how good Ma Belle and Stellar are, I'm sure there are some gems still unreleased

 
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Old 07-24-2018, 10:42 AM   #199
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man Bill looked so weird here. His eyes look different and more intense and he’s so gaunt.

Also lol at thinking that Zeitgeist was a return to classic Pumpkin sound

 
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Old 07-24-2018, 11:11 AM   #200
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ZG had some memorable songs but it's not the kind of record I can listen to from start to finish (SD, Adore, Machina). I don’t revisit ZG. Oceania was easier to listen all the way through. Take The Celestials out of it and it’s a decent album.
I agree, except I like The Celestials. I feel like Billy's songwriting is better (or at least more interesting) on Oceania. I feel like had Jimmy played drums on that album, it would be regarded better. Oceania is closer to the album I wanted to hear after SP relaunched. It still feels like it's missing something... another straight up heavy rock tune or a better epic song than the title track, but I still enjoy it a lot more than Zeitgeist.

Quote:
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If memory serves me right, there were a lot of songs written during the Zeitgeist sessions that didn't see the light of day (I think there was a billboard with song titles etc). Judging by how good Ma Belle and Stellar are, I'm sure there are some gems still unreleased
Yeah, in true Billy fashion, he left a lot of his best work on the cutting room floor. Did Flood produce that album? Because I remember him supposedly giving Billy some questionable advice on which songs he should leave off Mellon Collie. Don't get me wrong, Mellon Collie is a masterpiece, but I feel like it could have been even better had it included Marquis in Spades or Mouths of Babes.

 
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Old 07-24-2018, 11:33 AM   #201
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Coming into conflict with hecklers was a feature of the 2008 20th anniversary shows. It happened more than once or twice, enough that people were theorizing the hecklers were planted. I was at the show where he brought the woman onstage who claimed she was James Iha. For me, the whole thing just enhanced the experience

I seem to be in the minority, but I saw the band 5 times between their "revival" and when Jimmy left, and I thought they played better each consecutive time I saw them. I was a big fan of the 20th anniversary shows
Yep.

20th tour was great but you could hear it was the sound of a band cracking apart yet again

 
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:13 AM   #202
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I agree, except I like The Celestials. I feel like Billy's songwriting is better (or at least more interesting) on Oceania. I feel like had Jimmy played drums on that album, it would be regarded better. Oceania is closer to the album I wanted to hear after SP relaunched. It still feels like it's missing something... another straight up heavy rock tune or a better epic song than the title track, but I still enjoy it a lot more than Zeitgeist.
True. I think if Jimmy payed everything Mike Byrne played verbatim it would be regarded better.

 
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Old 07-30-2018, 02:35 PM   #203
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True. I think if Jimmy payed everything Mike Byrne played verbatim it would be regarded better.
Yeah. I feel like Byrne's involvement makes anything from that era an easy target. Not saying all of that material is good (and some of it really isn't) but I think replacing Jimmy with someone as young and inexperienced as Byrne just left a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

 
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Old 07-30-2018, 02:45 PM   #204
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ur dad left a bad taste in my mouth

 
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Old 07-30-2018, 03:37 PM   #205
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Your dad has actually aged pretty well

 
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Old 07-30-2018, 03:49 PM   #206
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Controversial opinion: Oceania is a good cohesive album but Byrne takes it from a 4/5 to a 2.5/5. He just had absolutely zero touch. Quasar is hard to enjoy because of his drumming.

We would’ve loved Oceania if Jimmy was on it.

 
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Old 07-30-2018, 03:50 PM   #207
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ZG is super ultra shite

would rather listen to Teargarden

 
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Old 07-30-2018, 04:24 PM   #208
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Controversial opinion: Oceania is a good cohesive album but Byrne takes it from a 4/5 to a 2.5/5. He just had absolutely zero touch. Quasar is hard to enjoy because of his drumming.

We would’ve loved Oceania if Jimmy was on it.
I would hope this is the prevailing thought. Bring Jimmy in and lower Billy's vocals in the mix and you have something pretty great actually.

 
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Old 07-30-2018, 05:01 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninsp View Post
Controversial opinion: Oceania is a good cohesive album but Byrne takes it from a 4/5 to a 2.5/5. He just had absolutely zero touch. Quasar is hard to enjoy because of his drumming.

We would’ve loved Oceania if Jimmy was on it.
Idk if we would have LOVED it, but maybe not write it off so hard

 
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Old 07-30-2018, 05:03 PM   #210
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There's some parts in Oceania where you can definitely hear Zwan.

 
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