All SP albums ranked by Consequence of Sound

[johncg]

Well-worth checking out. It reads as though it’s equally informed by obsessive SP fandom and legitimate rock journalism.

https://consequenceofsound.net/2018/...worst-to-best/

Notable quote regarding MACHINA II:

“I’d probably foam at the mouth if I was Corgan. When Radiohead offered up their pay-what-you-want model for 2007’s In Rainbows, or when Trent Reznor dropped NIN’s The Slip or Ghosts for free in the late aughts, everyone championed them as renegades. But Corgan was ahead of the curve some six to seven years beforehand.”

[FlamingGlobes]

"I’d probably foam at the mouth if I was Corgan. When Radiohead offered up their pay-what-you-want model for 2007’s In Rainbows, or when Trent Reznor dropped NIN’s The Slip or Ghosts for free in the late aughts, everyone championed them as renegades. But Corgan was ahead of the curve some six to seven years beforehand.”

Except for the part where Radiohead and Trent offered completed, mastered works available to anyone who wanted and didn't just release half-finished stuff to a few fans to spread themselves.

[FoolofaTook]

Also B0lly probs did foam at the mouth.

[johncg]

He has been foaming at mouth since lollapooza 94

[NovaFritz]

As one of the commenters said, this list is very predictable. The top 2 albums are of course hard to rank, but I agree with putting Adore at 3 and M2 and 4. After that it is pretty predictable, though you might be up in arms if you are a big fan of Gish.

[johncg]

I think it’s gotta be considered pretty much a scientific fact at this point that SD and MCIS are top two. But I would have to very strongly put Gish at number 3. No way is Adore even in the same ballpark.

[Mals Marola]

right, how could an introspective masterpiece driven by divorce & death of one's mother even hope to take on a band's indie label debut

[Mals Marola]

don't get me wrong, i love Gish, but to say it's not even in the same ballpark... well it sets a "riffle in my jimmies" to say the least!

[johncg]

lol I thought your initial comment was sincere and I nodded in silent agreement

[Mals Marola]

i do think Adore is better than Gish, if there was any confusion

[johncg]

I think Adore is good for what it is: Corgan failing on purpose. I just prefer the other side of his grandiose personality where is playing to his strengths and trying to take over the world.

[Mals Marola]

i look at it as the album where maybe more than any other in his career, he disregarded the expectations & desires of the public and did exactly what he wanted to do. of course the backlash to that he still hasn't shrugged off and indirectly i'm sure you could blame it for Monuments, Shiny, etc, but hey, that doesn't change the record itself

[FoolofaTook]

i think adore > gish but i totes get why someone might think gish > adore.

i'm, like, open-minded, man.

[johncg]

I do really like Adore it’s just not my favorite. I see it differently though.

To me, it’s not the album where he disregarded public expectations and did exactly what we wanted. It’s the first in a series of albums (possibly including even SAOSB) in which he very carefully regards what people expect of him and just chooses to do either the exact opposite or something else that represents a reaction as opposed to something pure and from his own heart. I think I remember him talking about that in fan interview (possibly with Monte?) around the Oceania period.

Personally, I don’t think the idea of making music that just pleases him is something someone with a narcissistic personality type like Corgan’s is really even concerned with. Music has always just been a means to tending to his attachment injuries by getting fame and recognition.

[Elphenor]

guy gets it right by putting ZG dead last

[redbreegull]

nah, Zeitgeist is definitely not actually their worst album. that's actually silly

[FoolofaTook]

guy gets it wrong simply by acknowledging the existence of anything post-M2

[HerVelvetSpleen]

I kinda sorta feel all butthurt over Shame being labeled a "rotten apple".

[redbreegull]

I think SD>MCIS>Adore>MII is a good call. Personally I can't put Machina I ahead of Gish and his SP 2 rankings are incorrect. Z>SAOSBV1>Oceania>Monuments>TGBK (not even listed by this publication)

[topleybird]

Originally Posted by this fucking Judas right here

While “Death from Above”, off the yellow version, sticks out as the worst Pumpkin track to date (right next to “Starz”)

Are you seriously fucking kidding me right now

Do the right thing and eat a gun over your, quite frankly, treasonous (ATTN: FBI) incitement to violence

When you watch the news tonight and see that three loaded jumbo jets crashed themselves into the exact spot where the World Trade Center once stood you'll know it's this guy's fault

[panda show]

lol how the FUCK is gish lower than both M1&M2? the adore vs gish discussion left aside (even though I prefer gish over adore) - the main thing that sets gish apart from both of the machinas (and in my opinion adore as well) is the consistency of the album. it just rips through the whole 45 minutes, every song is in its own way very charming and the band just sounds very fresh and youthful. I don't understand how someone can't feel that, especially if they consider themselves a fan of the band. It's the only record which encaptures a time in the bands history when they were just on the brink of success, still trying to break from the indie world, and most important of all I feel that it captures a moment when the band wasn't struggling with the many internal personal conflicts and drug abuse problems yet, they were just 4 people who somehow sounded fucking great on stage, had a great energy and even seemed like they were, almost, in some weird way, friends (contrary to how their relationships later evolved). I think this interview (from mid-1991 I believe, before nevermind, before all the alternative/grunge explosion and expectations) really captures that well:

(interview starts at 3:40)

[soniclovenoize]

Originally Posted by johncg

“I’d probably foam at the mouth if I was Corgan. When Radiohead offered up their pay-what-you-want model for 2007’s In Rainbows, or when Trent Reznor dropped NIN’s The Slip or Ghosts for free in the late aughts, everyone championed them as renegades. But Corgan was ahead of the curve some six to seven years beforehand.”

Originally Posted by ciGarski

I still have a text book from a music class I took in college that acknowledges them for that. I always think that he did miss the credit for that.

They Might Be Giants beat them

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Tall_Weekend

[Mals Marola]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

I think SD>MCIS>Adore>MII is a good call. Personally I can't put Machina I ahead of Gish and his SP 2 rankings are incorrect. Z>SAOSBV1>Oceania>Monuments>TGBK (not even listed by this publication)

it's not listed cos it's such a "clusterfuck" & not a studio album - they acknowledged it as 2 ep's in the description & left it alone, which was prob the best decision

[Mals Marola]

i also never realized Rhinoceros was the longest track on Gish - always thought of Window Paine as the album's "epic"

[Mals Marola]

from his writing, it looks like he mostly put the Machinas above Gish to promote them as overlooked releases, tbh. Fair enough, tho FUCK HIM for putting WEL as the "rotten apple" !

[Funky_Gibbon]

I don't know how they can leave out Pisces Iscariot. Regardless of whether the songs were b-sides or whatever from other albums, PI is easily one of the great Pumpkin albums of the 90s and shows that in the early 90s, even with discarded songs, the Pumpkins could put out an album that stands up well against just about anything their contemporaries were releasing at the time.

[Mals Marola]

i understand theoretically why they left it out, but ya i don't think too many people would have batted an eyelash if they ranked it against the studio albums, since it pretty much plays like one

[Corgan's Bluff]

Boring rank list...

"What separates the Pumpkins from most of their contemporaries, however, is their mired past. Controversy, chaos, conflict, and corruption strangled the band’s foundation for years:"

So there is even corruption mentioned with the band. But not further explained.

[Mals Marola]

would it have been more exciting if they'd put Machina @ number 1?

[Mals Marola]

i'd "drop trou" for any major publication that actually had the balls to do that