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Old 07-14-2019, 06:50 PM   #1
fuzzyroes
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Default Excellent post from Reddit in regards to the bands new live sound

Saw this on Reddit a minute ago. Excellent post. Definitely sums up a lot of what I've noticed. Thought some of the fans here would enjoy it, so without further ado, here it is:

I held off on posting about this until there were several proper pro shot shows since last year. I will make a quick disclaimer though.

To most this is probably a nitpicked issue that they dont "hear" and I get this is an audiophile complaint but I am just at the point where I dont even wont to listen to these new shows unless there is a new song in the set. I even let an audio engineer I know listen to the differences and he confirmed the differences. I thought it was just bad mixes at first but its not. Having said that there are a few audience sourced recordings where the volume is loud enough from the PA system for the guitars to sound good. It finally really hit me when I saw the live recording of The Cure playing the same festival and they sounded fabulous (mix wise) and there gear and amps are on stage.

--What has changed? starting last year the band has taken all of their guitar amplifiers off the stage, they are under or behind the stage in iso cabinets (like a studio) . There are no monitors on stage. All the band members are wearing in ear monitors. Why does this matter? Well normally when a band plays live if you are standing on stage you can hear the natural sound of everything right there good and loud. For what you cant hear you have monitors (speakers on stage) that are then mixed for each person to get their own tweak of everything. This also puts out even more volume on stage.I have asked Jeffs guitar tech about it on Instagram and he confirmed it. When I asked if this could be why things sound thin etc.. he got defensive about it and didnt anwser dodged.

All the PA is doing is putting mics on everything to run it through the main system to be mixed and put into the main sound system and or live broadcast. Well all the vocal mics, and all the drum mics and any mic on that stage is going to have natural "bleed" meaning its going to pic up more volume from everything. This created a "big" sound that blends and can sound "warm and full"

A big part of the Pumpkins sound is natural guitar tone and feedback from onstage interaction between the guitars, amps and monitors, see XYU here https://youtu.be/AS0HrXHkWA4?t=337 or Mayo here https://youtu.be/s7-30i1f5e0?t=117 or Drown > Hummer transition https://youtu.be/M3s02WuWMt0?t=1843 maybe the best example Hummer 94 lost https://youtu.be/Y4Imf_anNCYNot just a 90's thing either Hummer 2007 pro shot guitars sound right big warm https://youtu.be/S-A3pdDDvYY?t=2366

Probably one of the best examples 07 Blue Skies (this is amps on stage loud yet soundboard) the big warm wall https://youtu.be/YbaHsAjip1w?t=1230


OK, now if you listened to any of those, I give you 2019 no amps, no monitors pro shot Bullet from France the other week. Listen to the overall guitar sound and mix, its in mono also not stereo.https://youtu.be/Tt4W0MHqyMw?t=82


Here is another last night pro shot Portugal Cherub Rock guitars still in mono same sound as Francehttps://youtu.be/1waWzremOEY?t=4462

Ok lets just take a pro shot 2010 performance of Bullet and listen to keep comparing stereo mixed amps on stagehttps://youtu.be/0tOTw38P4GE?t=41

One more

Porcelina 1996 with amps on stagehttps://youtu.be/Uc42KlA4fpk?t=426Porcelina 2018 without amps

https://youtu.be/9czpVjVL1wM?t=6224


For a better understanding of what it sounds like a soundcheck with no amps or monitors on this tour... There is no stage sound except for the drums. Soundcheck 2019https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52mZMeI6KT4


One more thing they played Troubador in 2018 and I think this is the only show with amps on stage and it sounds rightSolara Live 2018 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ckxo9rT3oI (this is all I am saying. Its not a criticism of the performances just a technical thing)


1979 House Party June of 2018 had the amps on stage, Sounds great too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7XL3kIsZkk




I am not trying to hate I love the band. Just wish they would put the amps back on stage and go back to stereo mix, There is no wall of guitars anymore. I did attend a Shiny show last year and in person it was good and loud but It was still missing that extra tone.

Last edited by fuzzyroes : 07-14-2019 at 09:57 PM. Reason: Monteisms

 
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Old 07-14-2019, 07:02 PM   #2
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What do you do for work? Do you have a job?

 
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Old 07-14-2019, 07:05 PM   #3
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well at least it's actually about SP

 
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Old 07-14-2019, 07:06 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paranoid View Post
What do you do for work? Do you have a job?
ooh yeah, still at the warehouse fuzzy?

 
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Old 07-14-2019, 07:12 PM   #5
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For someone that’s never actually been To any of these shows, he sure spends a lot of time arm chairing his thoughts on this.

Pretty amazing he has to use someone else’s post though to somewhat intelligently articulate his opinion, because he obviously can’t do it himself.

I was at a shiny show. Band sounded as loud and full as they ever had.

Last edited by paranoid : 07-14-2019 at 07:20 PM.

 
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Old 07-14-2019, 07:29 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smashingjj View Post
ooh yeah, still at the warehouse fuzzy?
Sadly, yes. A mans gotta eat, but it's pretty unfulfilling work. I'm able to rock headphones there now though, so I get a lot of good podcast action in.

 
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Old 07-14-2019, 07:38 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paranoid View Post
For someone that’s never actually been To any of these shows, he sure spends a lot of time arm chairing his thoughts on this.

Pretty amazing he has to use someone else’s post though to somewhat intelligently articulate his opinion, because he obviously can’t do it himself.

I was at a shiny show. Band sounded as loud and full as they ever had.
It was an interesting post that clearly illustrated an aspect of their current live sound, I thought the folks here would find it interesting. I fail to see how that's "pretty amazing" as you so oddly put it.

The ticket prices for the current tour are asinine. There's no way in hell I'd pay that kind of price for a seated show in an enormodome for this lineup. I was at the Punk in Drublic festival yesterday. 70 dollar ticket, outdoors, all day show. Lineup featured NOFX, Bad Religion, Anti-Flag, Real McKenzies and a few others and good ole general admission seating. I forgot how fun it was to enjoy a huge moshpit and just the general atmosphere of a free for all floor show... Fuck this assigned seating shit, that's lame as fuck.



From the show I was at
Oh and look at that, there's AMPS ON THE STAGE... What a unique concept! haha

 
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Old 07-14-2019, 08:22 PM   #8
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What's wrong with working in a warehouse? I was glad to do that for a month at Goodwill. If only I had been able to get along with my coworkers everything would have been good.

 
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Old 07-14-2019, 09:32 PM   #9
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I don't work at all

 
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Old 07-14-2019, 09:53 PM   #10
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i mean, you're* definitely not way off in suggesting having cabs off-stage is a fucking stupid idea for a band like Smashing Pumpkins, but what're we supposed to do exactly, picket Bilbo every show? actually, that may not be too bad an idea at all!

*the reddit guy

 
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Old 07-14-2019, 10:07 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by FoolofaTook View Post
What's wrong with working in a warehouse? I was glad to do that for a month at Goodwill. If only I had been able to get along with my coworkers everything would have been good.
That's the beauty in working the night shift, my friend. I'm left alllllllllllllll alone to do my shit. Gets a little lonely, but it's nice to not have managers or other jackasses breathing down my throat.

 
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Old 07-14-2019, 10:09 PM   #12
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I don't work at all

 
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Old 07-14-2019, 10:10 PM   #13
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When I listened to this song in the first time in ages, I wanted to start busting out the verse to "Closing Time" by Semisonic haha

 
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Old 07-14-2019, 10:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mals Marola View Post
i mean, you're* definitely not way off in suggesting having cabs off-stage is a fucking stupid idea for a band like Smashing Pumpkins, but what're we supposed to do exactly, picket Bilbo every show? actually, that may not be too bad an idea at all!

*the reddit guy
I dunno man... But for these guys being such an iconic guitar based grunge/alt rock group, it is a little weird to see them doing the whole U2/Coldplay shtick with their stage show. Could you ever imagine Nirvana or My Bloody Valentine playing on stage without stacks?

It's absurd.

Billy is the ultimate sell-out. Plain and simple.

 
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Old 07-14-2019, 10:15 PM   #15
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"FUZZY'S TROLLING! HE'S BEING SO NEGATIVE"

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Say what you will, but you all know that what I'm saying in this particular thread is 100% true.

 
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Old 07-14-2019, 10:20 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzyroes View Post
I dunno man... But for these guys being such an iconic guitar based grunge/alt rock group, it is a little weird to see them doing the whole U2/Coldplay shtick with their stage show. Could you ever imagine Nirvana or My Bloody Valentine playing on stage without stacks?

It's absurd.

Billy is the ultimate sell-out. Plain and simple.
if Nirvana was still a thing I think they'd absolutely be doing this

 
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Old 07-14-2019, 10:22 PM   #17
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No way in hell Kurt Cobain would be doing... this... No fucking way in hell.

 
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Old 07-14-2019, 10:29 PM   #18
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you're right, he probably would have stayed exactly the same as he was in the early 90s. like his bandmates.

 
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Old 07-14-2019, 10:29 PM   #19
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apologies in advance if you were planning on reacting to your own post again

 
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Old 07-14-2019, 11:08 PM   #20
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SP simply isn't the kind of band that utilises the sound coming from the stage any more. Stylistically, they grew out of the histrionics of fucking around with equipment ever since Adore. They've been too old for that shit for a long time, and now they're probably getting too old to deal with the chaos and volume of having all the cabinets and monitors on stage.

 
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Old 07-14-2019, 11:13 PM   #21
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If you want to see a band that fucks around with feedback from their cabinets and monitors like Billy did during XYU in 1996.... go see different bands. See local bands at small venues. See younger bands that have the energy to do that shit. Listen to new bands. Expand your horizons.

 
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Old 07-14-2019, 11:34 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mals Marola View Post
you're right, he probably would have stayed exactly the same as he was in the early 90s. like his bandmates.
why, it's not like every other 90's band that is still playing shows has switched over and ditched on-stage sound setups?

it's obviously only a very small minority doing it, why would you think nirvana would be in that minority?

 
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Old 07-14-2019, 11:40 PM   #23
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I once saw a guitarist play through a PA and I thought wow what have I been doing listening to amps all of this time.

Then I posted about it on the internet.

 
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Old 07-14-2019, 11:48 PM   #24
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You said your audio engineer friend could “confirmed the differences” for you. Okay what exactly did he confirm? That the mixes sound different? Well, if they are two different recordings of two different bands at two different times maybe that has something to do with it? lol.

A lot of bands don’t have live cabinets on stage anymore and use Ax Fx or something similar. The sound of guitar speaker cabinets is arguably negligible for bigger shows. They are not that loud and are just for the band to hear themselves. 99% of what everyone hears though is the mic’ed and DI’ed cabs mixed through the mains and monitors.

So I don’t know what the fuck your talking about. I hope life in the warehouse is good man.

 
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Old 07-14-2019, 11:49 PM   #25
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You said your audio engineer friend could “confirmed the differences” for you. Okay what exactly did he confirm? That the mixes sound different? Well, if they are two different recordings of two different bands at two different times maybe that has something to do with it? lol

A lot of bands don’t have live cabinets on stage anymore and use Ax Fx or something similar. The sound of guitar speaker cabinets is arguably negligible for bigger shows. Generally they are not that loud and are just for the band to hear themselves. 99% of what everyone hears is the mic’ed and DI’ed amps/cabs mixed through the mains and monitors.

So I don’t know what the fuck your talking about. I hope life in the warehouse is good man.

 
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Old 07-15-2019, 12:29 AM   #26
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The recent tour has a very sterile feel to it, and I know just enough about live sound and just little enough about live sound for me to buy this explanation

 
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Old 07-15-2019, 01:28 AM   #27
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What John said. Having cabs on or off the stage really doesnít make much difference. Often times the cabs will be turned down (or turned down with attenuators to preserve tone) and the PA takes care of the volume.

If we want to go after what might be causing that so called sterile sound some are complaining about, Iíd attribute it more to the move to multi effects digital presets more than I would to cabs. But then Iíd have to explain yet another thing to fuzzy that he just doesnít understand so letís just leave it at that.

Congrats. Another shit thread.

 
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Old 07-15-2019, 02:58 AM   #28
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figures fuzzy is a reddit gauy

Last edited by enthusaroo : 07-15-2019 at 03:14 AM.

 
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Old 07-15-2019, 05:39 AM   #29
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i'm gonna blame the line6 helix and the multi-preamp setup they've been using for the weaker tone.

 
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Old 07-15-2019, 06:33 AM   #30
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<< BIG OPINION BELOW >>

IN-EARS AND ISO-CABS ARE ANTI ROCK N ROLL

The band needs to be performing in the same space as the audience, not playing to a space in their in-ears.

 
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