"Golden Era" SP songs you never liked

[Mals Marola]

never understood the seemingly common disdain for Pistol Pete. Like, I could get why it's not everyone's absolute favorite but, why single that one out? I think it's such a nice little track, and live, oh m'god! Tear & Annie Dog, despite having been into each on some level at one point or another, I can completely get the "scrunched noses" for, however

[Mals Marola]

Appels + Oranjes is in that same boat too, tho I guess it's been made obvious enough that that's more a case of "what the fuck are they doing?" than anything else. I was completely into that kinda late 90s electro-pop-whatever-the-hell going into Adore tho so it was instantly loved by me

Here's a hot take tho: To Sheila, good as it is, is massively overrated in the context of Adore

[johncg]

Corgan had an incredible thing going with SP in the 90s: a string of hit albums that are still classics today, dozens of b sides and unreleased gems, millions of adoring fans. He was literally primed to be the biggest and most influential rock star of his generation (other than Kurt.) I think sometimes even us crusty old Netphorians forget how big SP was back then...and how consistently mind blowingly good their music was.

Billy had the golden ticket to rock and roll legend status right in the palm of his hand. But every decision he has made since that time has amounted to him taking that golden ticket and ripping it to shreds one disaster at a time. As a fan, I have to say it has been both baffling and painful. I feel like I’ve been watching the prettiest girl in school fall down the stairs for 20 years.

Oh well. At least we have SOLARA.

[FoolofaTook]

hells no is to sheila overrated, context or no context. it just might be the bestest pumpkins song of all time!!!

[Shadaloo]

Originally Posted by Mals Marola

never understood the seemingly common disdain for Pistol Pete. Like, I could get why it's not everyone's absolute favorite but, why single that one out? I think it's such a nice little track, and live, oh m'god!

The fucking CRC sessions version with the heavy, prominent bass. So good.

[Mals Marola]

Originally Posted by FoolofaTook

hells no is to sheila overrated, context or no context. it just might be the bestest pumpkins song of all time!!!

i think it's overrated when people make comments of the "great song then it's all downhill from there" nature re: Adore

then again, yer an Ava Adore hater so whata you know, wata-man!

[FoolofaTook]

i'm not an adore hater. i just think it could of been much better. they should have stuck to sparse piano/acoustic guitar stuff like crestfallen and pistol pete and czarina and to sheila...but we've had this discussion a million times.

[Mals Marola]

i said Ava Adore, you nincomshit! in any case, I don't disagree it could have been better but even as is it's a golden-era album to me

[FoolofaTook]

hell no

golden era is SD-PI-MCIS-TAFH

[FoolofaTook]

oh btw the belfort concert was BOMB. finishing with xyu/porcelina/tafh blue my mind.

[Mals Marola]

it's the whole of SP in the 90s, the bad tracks were merely scuff marks on the golden nugget that was this decade of the band

[redbreegull]

tepid take: Adore is absolutely part of the golden era and holds its own against SD and MCIS in its own way

hot take: the electro pop side of Adore has not aged badly at all, actually sounds ahead of its time because of how much more prevalent electro pop is now, and the problem is all you old ass listeners

[Mals Marola]

Originally Posted by FoolofaTook

oh btw the belfort concert was BOMB. finishing with xyu/porcelina/tafh blue my mind.

oh yeah, great concert all around. probably the single best no-jimmy SP performance I've ever watched/heard, aside from the Kissed Alive Too disc (though i believe that's compiled from several performances) and the setlist felt like a one time only kind of affair

[redbreegull]

scalding take: 90s electro pop still sounds good

[redbreegull]

this thread is now about Savage Garden

[Mals Marola]

too hot to touch take: the most electro pop track on the album, A+O, is a highlight of Adore

[redbreegull]

you can't deny that Billy Corgan is trying to tap into this on Adore

[Mals Marola]

i heard a Natalie Imbruglia track that wasn't Torn or Identify the other day & it was pretty damn good

was more like Portishead than Dido, & i think from the same album/era as those other 2 tracks. the collab between her and Billbo could have truly been a glorious thing, had it gone on for more than one track

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by Mals Marola

too hot to touch take: the most electro pop track on the album, A+O, is a highlight of Adore

never disliked Appels and Oranjes (sp? lmao)

Annie Dog is the only song that really drags for me

[Mals Marola]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

you can't deny that Billy Corgan is trying to tap into this on Adore

I always felt like "Crestfallen" in particular was kinda... "in a league" with these sort of tracks

[MonumentsRocks]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

you can't deny that Billy Corgan is trying to tap into this on Adore

This sounds like a rip off of Roxette's "The Look", it's so close, someone should have received royalty checks.

I think the the decision to become more electronic was probably motivated by The Prodigy and Chemical Brothers. Even though they were a lot more aggressive than the sounds on Adore, they sort of ushered in EDM to the top 40 charts, probably giving Billy the idea that it would be possible to do something electronic, and still sell a lot of records.

As for Adore specifically, I'm not sure how generic this beat was at the time, but this track, which was released around the time Billy was in the studio, has a very similar feel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHcyJPTTn9w

[LoveIsSuicide42]

I don't like To Forgive

[NovaFritz]

Originally Posted by LoveIsSuicide42

I don't like To Forgive

wtf

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by MonumentsRocks

This sounds like a rip off of Roxette's "The Look", it's so close, someone should have received royalty checks.

not really that similar. not even the same chord progression

[redbreegull]

ok I'm further into the song, it seems like you just picked something with a vaguely similar guitar tone and a repetitive beat and said they sound the same

[MonumentsRocks]

I'm not the first person to have observed their similarity https://www.classicrockforums.com/th...want-you.3757/

[redbreegull]

my dad used to say Creep by Radiohead was a rip off of The Air That I Breathe by the Hollies.

[fluxequalsrad]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

my dad used to say Creep by Radiohead was a rip off of The Air That I Breathe by the Hollies.

cool.

[MonumentsRocks]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

my dad used to say Creep by Radiohead was a rip off of The Air That I Breathe by the Hollies.

Ripping off music is an imprecise art. The notes can be the same, but the vibe totally different, or the notes completely different, but somehow sound so close that one immediately conjures the other. For example Lada Gaga's Born This Way https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u48oWMGZR3E basically stealing Madonna's lunch. Another example I Want a New Drug vs Ray Parker Jr. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKWW5-jr5Y0 , the vocal melody was different but it was so unmistakable that Huey Lewis sued and won.

I'm sure how musical plagiarism is defined will become more focused as musicians run out of "new" ideas. The "Creep" sound goes back further than Hollies, for example Elvis Presley, "That's When Your Heartaches Begin", which IMO matched the vibe of Creep to a much closer degree, but even then, that songs probably borrowed heavily another song, too. At some point it's like trying to claim you invented pan cakes or flavored water.

[houseofglass11]

Creep was a rip off of that Hollies song. So much so that they sued successfully and now the song is credited to the members of Radiohead and the Hollies.