First presidential debate today at 3:00pm ET / noon PT

[BlueStar]

Democratic Presidential Candidates Visit Nevada Today
Feb 21, 2007
http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=6108828

Several democratic presidential candidates flock to Carson City today to take part in the nation's first Democratic Presidential Forum.

The candidates that will appear ******* Senator Joe Biden, Senator Hillary Clinton, Senator Chris Dodd, former Senator John Edwards, former Senator Mike Gravel, Representative Dennis Kucinich, Governor Bill Richardson and Governor Tom Vilsack.

The forum will focus on issues that affect working families and is sponsored by the AFSCME, the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees Union.

The Democratic Presidential Forum will be streamed live on www.LasVegasNOW.com starting at noon today. You can also watch the event in Las Vegas One, channel 19 starting at noon.

[BlueStar]

Obama will NOT be at the debate...

Obama's Nevada Flyover

If anyone's keeping score this early, this one beats a verbal gaffe or any blogger brouhaha by a mile, because it's delivered by the candidate himself. Senator Obama, you just might have to kiss those Nevada union votes good-bye. First, before we get started and just to be clear, there's nothing wrong with big Hollywood money. May it fund my radio show someday. But a Nevada flyover to diss union members and miss the first presidential forum of the '08 season? Wow. That takes serious political balls. Here's the deal...

Barack Obama may be the media darling right now, but he should be held to the same standards as all the other candidates, especially when it comes to forums that are meant to give primary voters insight into people who want to be president. These forums and the debates that come later are the most democratic part of the presidential primary season. The first presidential forum shouldn't be optional. Mr. Obama should not get a pass because his team says he's too busy or that his schedule couldn't fit it in or whatever is the excuse de jour of the daily campaign grind.

As I wrote yesterday, Mr. Obama will be in Las Vegas on Sunday, February 18th.

Then I started looking at the rest of his schedule, which piqued my interest. That's when I received an anonymous email that was short and sweet and got to the heart of the issue.

"The situation with Obama and Carson City is worse than you note in your post -- he's actually going to be in California the day before the forum for fundraisers with the DreamWorks people, and will be *flying over Nevada* either the night before or the day of the forum. Considering the event takes place at noon, it would take almost no effort to adjust his schedule so he could spend 30 mins. addressing 750 union members." - Anonymous ...

http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=25170

[wHATcOLOR]

how come they hold it during the middle of the day? it seems like a pretty inconvenient time for anyone with a job

[BlueStar]

Originally Posted by wHATcOLOR

how come they hold it during the middle of the day? it seems like a pretty inconvenient time for anyone with a job

It is primarily meant for union members and the unions will ensure their members are there. And this way, it is certain that it will make this evening's news cycle. Over 750 union members are expected to attend and over 100 national and foreign news organizations will be there.

You can also watch it on C-SPAN and abcnews.go.com.

[wHATcOLOR]

harumph. :/ my vote is worth more than 10 union workers!

[BlueStar]

The order of the candidates as determined by lottery...

United States Senator Chris Dodd, D-CT
United States Senator Hillary Clinton, D-NY
Former Iowa Governor Tom Vilsack, D-IA
Former United States Senator John Edwards, D-NC
New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson, D-NM
United States Senator Joe Biden, D-DE
United States Congressman Dennis Kucinich, D-OH
Former United States Senator Mike Gravel, D-AK


The format according to ABC News...

Each candidate will deliver a two-minute opening statement. Forum moderator George Stephanapolous of ABC News will ask the candidate three questions, one of which will be submitted by an inquisitive AFSCME member. Candidates will have three minutes to respond to each of these questions. The candidate will then have one minute for a closing statement.

[BlueStar]

Iraq, Iraq, Iraq. And Hillary forgot to give her closing statement - she just walked off the stage.

[HorseflyKing]

Originally Posted by wHATcOLOR

how come they hold it during the middle of the day? it seems like a pretty inconvenient time for anyone with a job

Everyone knows that people who vote Democrat don't have jobs, duh!

[sppunk]

What a lame "debate." It was so not-news it's not even a main story on cnn.com or foxnews.com.

*yawn*

[BlueStar]

Originally Posted by sppunk

What a lame "debate." It was so not-news it's not even a main story on cnn.com or foxnews.com.

Um, perhaps because it is still happening and hasn't yet concluded. And of course news articles simply reporting on the fact that there is a debate aren't going to be a main story. The real story is in what they said (and they're still saying it at the moment) - and there will be main stories about what was said.

[sppunk]

Right, it's going on but still to this point nothing earthshattering or even new has been mentioned.

I'm not a big fan of these type of PR events they call debates - it's very mundane and frankly a waste of time. It's like a practice round of speaking with not much to lose. Like you mentioned about Hilary and her lack of closing, it won't matter at all.

[BlueStar]

Originally Posted by sppunk

it's very mundane and frankly a waste of time. It's like a practice round of speaking with not much to lose. Like you mentioned about Hilary and her lack of closing, it won't matter at all.

It matters if you understand primary voters and how the primaries work. Nevada is a new early state - it is #2 on the primary calendar this year. Voters in Nevada have never been exposed to presidential candidates like this before and the Dem base there needs to be activated/energized. You have to start early and do it often in states like Nevada. It is also important because it is an AFSCME forum. AFSCME is determined to play a vital role in the primaries. And labor support, in general, is crucial to winning Nevada. So, in the respects of introducing themselves to Nevada voters (and trying to line up some active supporters early on to help with the ground fight in NV) and trying to get in good with labor, it was an important forum for the candidates.

[Junebug]

I'm already sick of the election. this is ridiculous.

[Trotskilicious]

It is ridiculous Junebug. The election is not for another two years and yet the candidates are already stumping and BlueStar is at an obnoxious level heretofore unseen on this board.

[Corganist]

Originally Posted by BlueStar

It matters if you understand primary voters and how the primaries work.

I think people understand primary voters and how the primaries work. Basically, the special interest groups (like the unions, for instance) and the hardliner money people decide who they want to throw their money behind. The candidates line up with their hands held out at "debates" like the one held today in order to get a piece of that money. Then they use that money to get the party nomination, and the general electorate is left scratching their heads wondering why they're stuck having to pick between Giant Douche and Turd Sandwich come November.

Maybe its inaccurate to say that a bunch of candidates having a "debate" in order to obtain special interest support doesn't matter in the scheme of things. It does. But I think its safe to say it shouldn't.

[Trotskilicious]

Word, son.

[BlueStar]

Originally Posted by Corganist

I think people understand primary voters and how the primaries work. Basically, the special interest groups (like the unions, for instance) and the hardliner money people decide who they want to throw their money behind. The candidates line up with their hands held out at "debates" like the one held today in order to get a piece of that money. Then they use that money to get the party nomination.

And that just shows how much you don't understand primary voters and how the primaries work.

[Corganist]

Originally Posted by BlueStar

And that just shows how much you don't understand primary voters and how the primaries work.

Enlighten me. You always pull this "I'm a Washington insider and I know how things really work." routine with things, but then you never explain how things really work. I'm sorry if I can't get my head around why it should matter in the overall scheme of things what candidates "get in good with labor" in Nevada, which seems to me to have been the overriding priority for these candidates.

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by Corganist

Enlighten me. You always pull this "I'm a Washington insider and I know how things really work." routine with things, but then you never explain how things really work.

It's because she sees it from a more idealistic, naive kind of way.

[BlueStar]

Originally Posted by Corganist

I'm sorry if I can't get my head around why it should matter in the overall scheme of things what candidates "get in good with labor" in Nevada, which seems to me to have been the overriding priority for these candidates.

If special interests and money determined the nominee, Dean would have been the nominee. Going into the Iowa caucuses, he had the endorsements from the unions, he had the union money, he had the other special interest money - he had more money than any of the other candidates. But, that's the beauty of our primary system (at least with the early states), endorsesments and money don't mean shit. Furthermore, Edwards has never ever taken special interest money and he has vowed to continue with that in this race. Obama has also stated that he will not accept special interest money. So, uh, Edwards at least wasn't at the NV forum for money as he won't take their money.

Primary voters in the early states don't care one bit about how much money a candidate has, who has endorsed who, or who is ahead in whatever poll. Money doesn't win you votes in the early states. It is the media that gives a shit about money, endorsements, polls, etc., not the voters.

The reason the candidates were there today was not for money (though, obviously, the earned media, the ability to reach out to thousands of voters, etc. can in turn bring in money), it was for votes. It wasn't for the endorsement of AFSCME (though, of course, that would be nice and no candidate would turn that down). (However, as evidenced in '04 with Dean, union members do not necessarily vote for the candidate their union has endorsed.) It was because they want to win NV and union members are a crucial voting block in NV (and they are crucial supporters/volunteers in every state). Union members are the type of voters that will give their time. They will pound the pavement, spend hours on end on the phones, etc., etc. - and a campaign cannot get off the ground without those kind of supporters. And that is needed right now. This campaign is off to a ridiculously ealry start. Campaigns shouldn't typically be fully staffed up in Iowa, for example, until June, but they are fully staffed up now already. It is full steam ahead and all the candidates want to hit the ground running in NV (and every other early state). One of the first things you do as a field staffer in any given state for any given campaign is get in touch with the unions and try to get the support of their members because you can't run a campaign without volunteers and union members are the type of active voters that will volunteer their asses off.

Originally Posted by BlueStar

And that just shows how much you don't understand primary voters and how the primaries work.

maybe if you did one of your candidates would win something

[BlueStar]

Originally Posted by Graveflower

maybe if you did one of your candidates would win something

Plenty of my candidates have won. And, again, lack of understanding about how politics works. For example, Dean's internet staffers, even though he lost, aren't considered as working for a losing candidate because they were the best of all the campaigns in their particular staff roles. Same goes for Edwards' field staffers. And so on and so on. And working on a losing hard-fought/tough/non-easy campaign is always considered better than working on an easy-win campaign.

[sppunk]

Originally Posted by BlueStar

It matters if you understand primary voters and how the primaries work.

hahaha You have really no idea, BlueStar.

Really. No. Idea.

[BlueStar]

Originally Posted by sppunk

hahaha You have really no idea, BlueStar.

Really. No. Idea.

Well then, please, enlighten me. Afterall, you've worked on, um, hmm, oh yeah, zero campaigns - you have never been paid staff for an actual candiate or issue campaign. You've never even been a voter in a state with an early primary.

[sppunk]

Originally Posted by BlueStar

Well then, please, enlighten me. Afterall, you've worked on, um, hmm, oh yeah, zero campaigns - you have never been paid staff for an actual candiate or issue campaign. You've never even been a voter in a state with an early primary.

Two of the above are wrong, but I digress because it doesn't fucking matter.

Union voters in Nevada and a press conference one year before a primary won't making/breaking any candidate - my initial comment still stands.

[BlueStar]

Originally Posted by sppunk

Two of the above are wrong, but I digress because it doesn't fucking matter.

Union voters in Nevada and a press conference one year before a primary won't making/breaking any candidate - my initial comment still stands.

Well, do tell. I'm sure we would all love to know what campaign you've been paid staff for - and actual campaign, not a PR person for an organization that throws money at candidates. And when were you a registered voter in Iowa, New Hampshire, or South Carolina (as those are the only states in the past few presidential elections that have been part of the key, early primary states)?

And I never said that it would make or break any candidate. What I said is that it matters, particularly when it comes to getting their campaigns up and running in Nevada.

[sppunk]

I said two of the three, not all three. It's common knowledge I will not post where I have/do work once I left the newspaper world years ago.

Moving back to the subject at hand ... hours after this debate and still no headlines on major news sites.

[BlueStar]

Originally Posted by sppunk

I said two of the three, not all three. It's common knowledge I will not post where I have/do work once I left the newspaper world years ago.

Moving back to the subject at hand ... hours after this debate and still no headlines on major news sites.

There were only two things, not three. Working for an organization that in some capacity deals with campaigns does not count as working on campaigns. And, just for the record, for reasons that have to do with some of the work I do, I am aware of where you work at the moment as I monitor the work your organization does - and as someone who has actually worked for the actual candidates (including 4 presidential candidates), you don't have a clue (especially about presidential primaries).

But, I digress, CNN, et al are still showing articles about the fact that the forum was happening (which, of course, are old now). It was all over the talk shows tonight, though, and was covered on the evening news by all major Nevada tv stations. And I expect that there will be more major news coverage in the morning. But hey, maybe I'm wrong and it will be a non-story, just like that Biden gaffe. Oh wait, the Biden gaffe, despite your calling it a non-story that would get no coverage the next day, was in all the major papers and on all the major news sites the next day (and the day after that too).

[Corganist]

Originally Posted by BlueStar

If special interests and money determined the nominee, Dean would have been the nominee. Going into the Iowa caucuses, he had the endorsements from the unions, he had the union money, he had the other special interest money - he had more money than any of the other candidates. But, that's the beauty of our primary system (at least with the early states), endorsesments and money don't mean shit.

Then why all the focus on how important it is that this was an AFSCME forum?

Primary voters in the early states don't care one bit about how much money a candidate has, who has endorsed who, or who is ahead in whatever poll. Money doesn't win you votes in the early states. It is the media that gives a shit about money, endorsements, polls, etc., not the voters.

And the voters get their info on candidates from the media, do they not? Surely you're not going to sit here and tell me that primary voters are getting the bulk of their info on candidates from meet and greets, faux debates, and staffers knocking on doors.

The reason the candidates were there today was not for money (though, obviously, the earned media, the ability to reach out to thousands of voters, etc. can in turn bring in money), it was for votes. It wasn't for the endorsement of AFSCME (though, of course, that would be nice and no candidate would turn that down). (However, as evidenced in '04 with Dean, union members do not necessarily vote for the candidate their union has endorsed.) It was because they want to win NV and union members are a crucial voting block in NV (and they are crucial supporters/volunteers in every state).

What's the difference in cowtowing to a special interest group for money or cowtowing to them for volunteers? The point is that the unions are getting one of the first seats at the table, so to speak, in choosing these candidates. These candidates are having to tell the unions what they want to hear first in order to get through the primaries, and the general electorate is left to pick through whoever the special interests initially get behind, be it with their checkbooks or with their legs.

[TuralyonW3]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

It is ridiculous Junebug. The election is not for another two years and yet the candidates are already stumping and BlueStar is at an obnoxious level heretofore unseen on this board.

perfectly said