Netphoria Message Board


Go Back   Netphoria Message Board > Archives > Pumpkins Archive
Register Netphoria's Amazon.com Link Members List Photo Album Mark Forums Read

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-18-2007, 01:33 PM   #1
Cool As Ice Cream
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
Cool As Ice Cream's Avatar
 
Location: František! How's the foot of your turtle?
Posts: 31,117
Question tsp1992-01-19.sbd - speed correction?

while checking out some stuff for someone who appears to have found an audience recording of 1992-01-19 Paard van Troje, Den Haag, NL (will be shared later, normally), i found that the soundboard recording that is on archive.org right now is running a bit too fast.

i was surprised by this, because i thought it was the bootleg version (rawk) that was running fast.

i didn't find rawk - and i don't really care about that one, because i heard that some parts are cut out - but i did find three other sources of the soundboard recording.

first, the one that is on archive.org (http://www.archive.org/details/tsp1992-01-19.flac16), a set of .flac files:
Quote:
The Smashing Pumpkins
1/19/1992
Paard van Troje
Den Haag, NL

Taper: unknown
Source: SBD > WM-D6 > ANA-1 > DAT
Conversion: DDC-?(32k) > CDR-0(my transfer)
Ripper: Andrew Fogelsong
FLAC: CDR-0 > EAC V0.95 beta 4(proper offset) > WAV > FLAC (level 8)
Notes:

************************************************** ******************************
SPREAD THE MUSIC
************************************************** ******************************

Disc 1
1. Suffer
2. Rocket (alt. lyrics)
3. Bury Me
4. Snail
5. Tristessa
6. Window Paine
7. Siva
8. Slunk, I Am One (abandoned)
9. Luna
10. I Am One

Disc 2
1. Crush
2. Silverfuck
3. Rhinoceros
4. Blue
5. Girl Named Sandoz [The Animals]
this one runs too fast. the first song i listened to was girl named sandoz and there you can clearly hear it.

then, on the hub, a very similar set of .shn files:
Quote:
Smashing Pumpkins
1/19/92
Paard Von Troje
Den Haag, NL

Taper: ??
Source: SBD > WM-D6 > ANA-1 > DAT @ 32kHz
Conversion: Tascam DA-20mkii(DCC-?) > coax cable > Delta Dio 2496 > Cool Edit Pro
Resampling: converted to 44.1kHz in Cool Edit Pro
Editor: Andrew Fogelsong
SHN: master wav's > CD Wave Editor > MKW Audio Compression Tool
notes: not from bootleg cd "Rawk"

************************************************** ******************************
SPREAD THE MUSIC
************************************************** ******************************


Disc 1

1. Suffer
2. Rocket
3. Bury Me
4. Snail
5. Tristessa
6. Window Paine
7. Siva
8. Slunk
9. Luna
10. I Am One


Disc 2

1. Crush
2. Silverfuck
3. Rhinoceros
4. Blue
5. Girl Named Sandoz
same tracklengths and speed as the first source.
are these the compressed master wave files of the same transfer that was used for the first source, cdr-0 (my transfer) > eac > flac?

and finally, another set of .shn files on the hub, that seems to run at the correct speed:
Quote:
The Smashing Pumpkins
Paard; Den Haag, NL
January 19, 1992

Source: SBD > d6 > FM > ANA
Conversion: ANA-1 > CDWave > CDR1 > SHN
** NOT FROM COMMERCIAL BOOTLEG **
my questions:
- how can one of the first two sources be corrected? is this hard to do with a program like sony soundforge? how does one decide how much the recording needs to be slowed down?
- are the first two sources from the same transfer? (if so, i guess it's best to take the second one to work with, the one without the cdr in the lineage. right?)

 
Cool As Ice Cream is offline
Old 11-18-2007, 02:13 PM   #2
1100ww
Ownz
 
1100ww's Avatar
 
Posts: 913
Default

I have these sources, but haven't listened to them in a long time. If I remember correctly, "Rawk" is complete, but ridiculously sped up to fit on one commercial CD...?

You could compare the live recording to the Gish album versions, finding an obvious note, and slowing yours down by sample increments until it sounds the same (or frequency analysis shows it being the same note). I've done this by ear and gotten pretty close (since in a live recording, there's usually gonna be some kind of other noises going on that obscures the exact pitch of the "note" you're looking at).

I imagine there are much better ways to do it than I've done--but I just kept comparing a live song to the album version, and kept lowering the sample rate by tiny increments (44000, 43500, 43400) until it was very close--then, on the highest settings, converted the sample type to 44100.

I'm sure the way I did it was probably ghetto...so I'm also curious about the best way to adjust speed.

 
1100ww is offline
Old 11-18-2007, 02:30 PM   #3
Skradgee
Boardcaster
 
Skradgee's Avatar
 
Location: reporting live
Posts: 3,675
Default

I noticed speed problems with this show too...made me wonder which source I really have (it's the second one). Before I burned CDs of this show, I corrected the speed (be ear) with a Winamp plug-in [Nullsoft DSP v 0.35] and used the disk-writer plug-in [under Output] to make WAV files. It sounds fine now.

 
Skradgee is offline
Old 11-18-2007, 03:08 PM   #4
Cool As Ice Cream
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
Cool As Ice Cream's Avatar
 
Location: František! How's the foot of your turtle?
Posts: 31,117
Default

that sounds even more ghetto, skradgee.

 
Cool As Ice Cream is offline
Old 11-18-2007, 03:29 PM   #5
redbull
Immortal
 
redbull's Avatar
 
Location: like liutenant dan i'm rollin'
Posts: 21,031
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream
my questions:
- how can one of the first two sources be corrected? is this hard to do with a program like sony soundforge?
you can change speed/pitch in almost anything now. I know audacity definitely will do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream
how does one decide how much the recording needs to be slowed down?
The way I would do this is compare pitches within the recording (like, if you know that the first note of rocket is E, you can play an E in real life and then see how far off the E in the recording is. Of course, amybe the band played downtuned that night...). A second way is to match the exact track lengths of the fast recording to the slow one, and then stretch to fit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream
- are the first two sources from the same transfer? (if so, i guess it's best to take the second one to work with, the one without the cdr in the lineage. right?)
yes and yes. I believe Andrew re-ripped some of his shn filesets that he had on audio cd in order to put them onto the LMA.

 
redbull is offline
Old 11-19-2007, 05:25 AM   #6
Cool As Ice Cream
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
Cool As Ice Cream's Avatar
 
Location: František! How's the foot of your turtle?
Posts: 31,117
Default

ok, thanks for the comments. i didn't know how speed corrections were done. i thought maybe there was a function somewhere that decides how much the speed needs to be adjusted.

i have no idea how an E is supposed to sound. i suppose this method requires listening, as in: there's no program that will tell me how close to an E a note is. right?

in this specific case, we have two other sources that run at the correct speed: the FM one, and more recently, the new audience recording. with these two, it should not be too hard to get the speed of the other source close to perfect.

 
Cool As Ice Cream is offline
Old 11-19-2007, 06:46 AM   #7
trev
charm
 
trev's Avatar
 
Location: Naarm, Wurundjeri, Woiwurrung, Kulin Nations
Posts: 1,756
Default

by the way rocket starts on G people.

if you want to hear an E, put on cherub rock.

 
trev is offline
Old 11-19-2007, 10:12 AM   #8
IWishIWasBlank
Apocalyptic Poster
 
IWishIWasBlank's Avatar
 
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 4,407
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream
my questions:
- how can one of the first two sources be corrected? is this hard to do with a program like sony soundforge? how does one decide how much the recording needs to be slowed down?
- are the first two sources from the same transfer? (if so, i guess it's best to take the second one to work with, the one without the cdr in the lineage. right?)
Could just put it in Cool Edit Pro and slow it down. There are a couple different features, going by tone or by speed, but you can choose to preserve quality, tonality, etc etc. Cool Edit of course is now Adobe Audition... so if you've got Adobe at your disposal, it may have more features. I've got Cool Edit here.

Edit: Nevermind.

 
IWishIWasBlank is offline
Old 11-19-2007, 12:40 PM   #9
Brute Squad
oh for fuck's sake
 
Brute Squad's Avatar
 
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 2,506
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream
- are the first two sources from the same transfer? (if so, i guess it's best to take the second one to work with, the one without the cdr in the lineage. right?)
They are from the same transfer. Yes, it would be best to take the second one that doesn't have the cdr lineage. I'm surprised that the original shns exist.

 
Brute Squad is offline
Old 11-19-2007, 03:57 PM   #10
milandejong
Pledge
 
milandejong's Avatar
 
Location: BoZ, NL
Posts: 244
Default

that new '92 AUD recording sure is a nice find!

 
milandejong is offline
Old 11-19-2007, 05:22 PM   #11
SPfreaks
Amish Rake Fighter
 
SPfreaks's Avatar
 
Location: Den Haag NL
Posts: 18
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by milandejong
that new '92 AUD recording sure is a nice find!
First few songs of this new recording can be downloaded here:

http://forum.spfreaks.com/viewtopic.php?t=292

 
SPfreaks is offline
Old 12-08-2007, 01:12 PM   #12
Cool As Ice Cream
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
Cool As Ice Cream's Avatar
 
Location: František! How's the foot of your turtle?
Posts: 31,117
Question re: "new" audience recording

all mp3s are available on livepumpkins.net: http://www.livepumpkins.net/audio/19...g_netherlands/


a couple of questions:

- on splra.org (http://www.splra.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tsp1992-01-19) shouldn't the first recording be called SBD#1 instead of AUD#1? and is it ok to call this new audience recording AUD#1 then?

- arthur from SPfreaks contacted the taper of this recording and asked him what equipment was used. how does one translate the following answer in source and lineage info that can be used on the live music archive? (i have no idea, so please help me out.)
Quote:
-Recorded with Sony Professional walkman, at that time the most expensive one.
-Mic: Sony also, the best one available at that time.
-Sound Enchanter 1 time to enlighten the dynamics a bit.
-Put to 2CD.
- also for archive.org: how should the flac files be called?
simply tsp1992-01-19d1t01.flac and so on? tsp1992-01-19.aud1.d1t01.flac? something else? (i noticed that the soundboard recording already has the tsp1992-01-19d1t01.flac filenames.)

thx.

 
Cool As Ice Cream is offline
Old 12-08-2007, 05:37 PM   #13
redbull
Immortal
 
redbull's Avatar
 
Location: like liutenant dan i'm rollin'
Posts: 21,031
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream
- on splra.org (http://www.splra.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tsp1992-01-19) shouldn't the first recording be called SBD#1 instead of AUD#1? and is it ok to call this new audience recording AUD#1 then?
yes, thanks for catching the typo on that one

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream
- arthur from SPfreaks contacted the taper of this recording and asked him what equipment was used. how does one translate the following answer in source and lineage info that can be used on the live music archive? (i have no idea, so please help me out.)
Sony Mic > Sony Pro Walkman > ANA-M> dEdit (I assume that "Sound Enchanter" is actually "Sound Enhancer", and the taper hasn't specified what software he used) > CDR-M > FLAC
(but maybe the files the taper released are from before he burned to CDR? then it would be ... > dEdit > FLAC)

I would name the files "tsp1992-01-19.aud.d1t01.flac" etc

 
redbull is offline
Old 12-09-2007, 06:25 AM   #14
Cool As Ice Cream
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
Cool As Ice Cream's Avatar
 
Location: František! How's the foot of your turtle?
Posts: 31,117
Default

ok, thanks.

i will look into that "sound enchanter" thing.
and the flac files are sourced from the cd-r bought at the record fair. the taper did not release any flac files.

 
Cool As Ice Cream is offline
Old 12-10-2007, 02:02 PM   #15
Cool As Ice Cream
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
Cool As Ice Cream's Avatar
 
Location: František! How's the foot of your turtle?
Posts: 31,117
Question

is it suspicious that the spectral for this recording looks like this?

http://users.telenet.be/crush/images...1t05-small.jpg

(click image or this link for larger image.)

 
Cool As Ice Cream is offline
Old 12-10-2007, 05:50 PM   #16
Cool As Ice Cream
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
Cool As Ice Cream's Avatar
 
Location: František! How's the foot of your turtle?
Posts: 31,117
Default

i'm no expert either, but i didn't think a simple cassette > cd-r transfer would show a cutoff at 15k. maybe i'm way off. someone?

 
Cool As Ice Cream is offline
Old 12-10-2007, 09:23 PM   #17
redbull
Immortal
 
redbull's Avatar
 
Location: like liutenant dan i'm rollin'
Posts: 21,031
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream
i'm no expert either, but i didn't think a simple cassette > cd-r transfer would show a cutoff at 15k. maybe i'm way off. someone?
could be noise reduction or a bad resampling job. I would post in http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/...splay.php?f=47

 
redbull is offline
Old 12-14-2007, 12:51 PM   #18
Cool As Ice Cream
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
Cool As Ice Cream's Avatar
 
Location: František! How's the foot of your turtle?
Posts: 31,117
Default

the audience recording of this show is now available on the live music archive: http://www.archive.org/details/tsp1992-01-19.aud.flac16

 
Cool As Ice Cream is offline
Old 12-14-2007, 02:53 PM   #19
Skradgee
Boardcaster
 
Skradgee's Avatar
 
Location: reporting live
Posts: 3,675
Default

Thanks, `B!

 
Skradgee is offline
 


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is On
Google


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:08 AM.




Smashing Pumpkins, Alternative Music
& General Discussion Message Board and Forums
www.netphoria.org - Copyright © 1998-2019