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Old 07-05-2018, 09:40 PM   #91
redbreegull
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this is not a jab at anyone in particular, I am just always confused when people bemoan the death of the traditional corporate music industry. In the first half of the 20th century, the recording industry got a national and then global stranglehold on the availability of recorded music to the public as the technology developed. At the time the result was likely that the industry, for the most part a few big companies, brought a lot more music into people's lives than they were used to hearing. But now we have the internet and we have quick and easy access to... everything. Why do we need "the music industry" around? Why is that important in a traditional sense? Like Elphenor said, the music industry is the source of all this bad music we are complaining about. That's what they push. They want to sell the most records to the most number of people (metaphorically, more like get their song played on the radio the most number of times, have people buy singles on itunes, etc.) and because the internet has so increased access, they have had to focus even harder on producing the most tasteless, bland, completely inoffensive background music for your shopping experience at Target. Their hold on basically all niche markets has evaporated because of the multiplication of media via the internet (rock is now a niche market). If I want to hear new music and I am into Delta Blues, or Appalachian style front porch country, or black metal shoegaze post rock crossover, all those specialty markets are not likely to be dominated by the major labels and the traditional gatekeepers anyway.

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:45 PM   #92
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right if Queen existed today they wouldn't go through a major label

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:46 PM   #93
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kill the music industry convo been happening since 1976 (if not earlier)

I feel like spotify is an attempt to bring it back

but also country and pop still making a killing in CD sales of all things no?
I mean we were told burning CDs was gonna kill the music industry, then it was napster, then it was streaming services. I dunno, I don't buy it. I look at the amount of new music being produced today, and the variety of that music, and I have a seriously difficult time believing the quantity and diversity of successful artists has ever been greater or wider. Today in 2018 I could start a band of pretty much any genre imaginable and there is a niche market for it. That was not so for the entire rest of pop music history.

That isn't to suggest anyone can be financially successful at music in 2018, but if you are a good musician with something worthwhile to hear, the internet and technology is an amazing democratizing force which to a large extent removes the corporate gatekeepers. You don't need corporate money to make a professional sounding record you can sell and promote in a widely trafficked space like spotify, and that allows us to be the gatekeepers, not Sony and Columbia and Geffen

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:49 PM   #94
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also musics influence on pop culture is probably exaggerated and it's more that artists are a reflection of the culture they come from ie The Beatles changing into representations of hippies directly coinciding with the rise of strong leftism in the Western world

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:53 PM   #95
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also musics influence on pop culture is probably exaggerated and it's more that artists are a reflection of the culture they come from ie The Beatles changing into representations of hippies directly coinciding with the rise of strong leftism in the Western world
I agree with this. It's all wrapped up together. I definitely don't subscribe to the idea that the Beatles (as one example) caused that change, they were just one small part of it.

However, it does seem to be true that Western culture used to identify much more strongly through the shared experience of popular music, and music does not have that rallying power anymore as an art form. I would say TV has replaced it.

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:55 PM   #96
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goddamn but I hate TV

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:57 PM   #97
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lol oh god. I didn't graduate
[/thread]

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:58 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
this is not a jab at anyone in particular, I am just always confused when people bemoan the death of the traditional corporate music industry. In the first half of the 20th century, the recording industry got a national and then global stranglehold on the availability of recorded music to the public as the technology developed. At the time the result was likely that the industry, for the most part a few big companies, brought a lot more music into people's lives than they were used to hearing. But now we have the internet and we have quick and easy access to... everything. Why do we need "the music industry" around? Why is that important in a traditional sense? Like Elphenor said, the music industry is the source of all this bad music we are complaining about. That's what they push. They want to sell the most records to the most number of people (metaphorically, more like get their song played on the radio the most number of times, have people buy singles on itunes, etc.) and because the internet has so increased access, they have had to focus even harder on producing the most tasteless, bland, completely inoffensive background music for your shopping experience at Target. Their hold on basically all niche markets has evaporated because of the multiplication of media via the internet (rock is now a niche market). If I want to hear new music and I am into Delta Blues, or Appalachian style front porch country, or black metal shoegaze post rock crossover, all those specialty markets are not likely to be dominated by the major labels and the traditional gatekeepers anyway.

Bro. Paragraphs. Bro.

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:58 PM   #99
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In terms of artists receiving a living wage from others enjoying their music, I think Spotify makes that less likely, so there will be less musicians and more full time hospitality staff I guess.

I never liked Spotify anyway, but when I saw Joanna Newsom talking to Larry King about it, I became firmly convicted that a reduction in profit, in the music industry, will affect musicians first.

People never want to pay for music anyway. It’s not just pop or country - it’s jazz and classical, too. Where once people would have booked an ensemble or quartet for a party, I think they’re more likely now to just pick a Spotify playlist and spend the music money on getting a $400 bespoke cake.

That’s great, if that’s what’s in, this year, but musical performance skills are expensive to acquire in terms of both money and time. And they need to be passed on from one generation to another. If people get into the habit of interacting with music by having whatever they want to listen to, at their fingertips, and being able to change it instantaneously according to their whims, the future of live performances will suffer too, I think. And once those skills are gone, they’re gone. It’s a shame.

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:00 PM   #100
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the music industry never gave most good musicians a living wage anyway

you read about it and find if you weren't The Smashing Pumpkins you probably even owed your record company money

I think there's only a handful of times in pop music where a huge amount of creative freedom coincided with a livable income and only for a very short amount of time

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:00 PM   #101
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By my friends are like “Well, at least we’ll still have the playlists!”

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:03 PM   #102
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Factory Records because the "execs" cared so little about making money they were losing money on every copy Blue Monday

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:10 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Elphenor View Post
the music industry never gave most good musicians a living wage anyway

you read about it and find if you weren't The Smashing Pumpkins you probably even owed your record company money

I think there's only a handful of times in pop music where a huge amount of creative freedom coincided with a livable income and only for a very short amount of time
ding ding

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:10 PM   #104
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the fact that "quick and easy" isn't always better is neglected itt. just because people can get their hands on any imaginable type of music through the internet right now, doesn't equate with "better". when faced with a vast myriad of options, most people become confused and shut down.

and besides, what comes easy, goes easy. you have to make no effort, financial or mental, to obtain it, and you have no qualms when it goes away. people just don't seem to assign the same collective personal and cultural weight to music anymore as they did, it's a different time. again, i don't care either way, i am merely interested in the phenomenon.

but regarding the music business, i would argue that the whole record company mechanism forced bands to fully commit to being exceptionally good at making music, and coming out with their absolute best. someone mentioned Queen - they made A Night At The Opera after changing management and being told that they will be pushed hard on the promotional end, so their job is to go into the studio and produce the best fucking record of their lives. they worked very hard, and they did. what are the odds they would have tried as hard if Brian May had a macbook and some mics in his basement?

i think it's worth arguing that the cutthroat nature of the business then perhaps added a few more editorial steps to the creative process, threw more professionalism into the mix (as a band had to go into a proper studio and work with a producer), and that made artists feel like if they come out with less than their absolute best, they would not be able to make music for a living anymore and go back to having a day job. and that is completely absent from today's musicians, who make their shitty music on a laptop and release it without a second thought. on paper, a good and liberating thing, but in reality - often not so much, and encouraging the negative kind of whimsicality.

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:12 PM   #105
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at least with spotify the artist gets a royalty every time the song is listened to, whereas with the radio an artist gets a royalty every time the song is played regardless of the number of devices listening

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:14 PM   #106
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I don't really believe there is less good music today than during any other era. I don't see any kind of objective drop in musicianship or quality. When it comes to something specific like "rock" or "guitar music" it might be harder to make something that sounds lasting at this point, but I think that is because of the extreme oversaturation of the last 6 decades, not a drop in what musicians are capable of without capitalists cracking the whip at them to make a better selling product

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:17 PM   #107
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I think the great artists will pour their sweat and blood into their work because they can not stand not to, if their goal is an idealized work

I was listening to an actor being interviewed on NPR the other day uh the Rob Swanson guy, he said you should only try to be an actor if you physically can not help yourself otherwise, only if it's out of your control

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:25 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1 View Post
the fact that "quick and easy" isn't always better is neglected itt. just because people can get their hands on any imaginable type of music through the internet right now, doesn't equate with "better". when faced with a vast myriad of options, most people become confused and shut down.

and besides, what comes easy, goes easy. you have to make no effort, financial or mental, to obtain it, and you have no qualms when it goes away. people just don't seem to assign the same collective personal and cultural weight to music anymore as they did, it's a different time. again, i don't care either way, i am merely interested in the phenomenon.

but regarding the music business, i would argue that the whole record company mechanism forced bands to fully commit to being exceptionally good at making music, and coming out with their absolute best. someone mentioned Queen - they made A Night At The Opera after changing management and being told that they will be pushed hard on the promotional end, so their job is to go into the studio and produce the best fucking record of their lives. they worked very hard, and they did. what are the odds they would have tried as hard if Brian May had a macbook and some mics in his basement?

i think it's worth arguing that the cutthroat nature of the business then perhaps added a few more editorial steps to the creative process, threw more professionalism into the mix (as a band had to go into a proper studio and work with a producer), and that made artists feel like if they come out with less than their absolute best, they would not be able to make music for a living anymore and go back to having a day job. and that is completely absent from today's musicians, who make their shitty music on a laptop and release it without a second thought. on paper, a good and liberating thing, but in reality - often not so much, and encouraging the negative kind of whimsicality.
Man, you're saying exactly what I'm thinking but don't have the ability to articulate.

I think to make good music, there needs to be some sort of checks and balances for the musicians to abide by.

RBG mentions bands like Pixies and Smiths, but they each had major label distribution. The Smiths were one the top charting bands in U.K. for crying out loud.

So the fact that anyone can record anything and get it out there, that doesn't really mean much in regards to a greater output of quality.

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:30 PM   #109
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Smiths were a rough trade band, indie label

that's like, where the popular use of indie comes from mate

later in their career Morrissey wanted to sign to a major label to make more $$$ directly coinciding with him reaching insufferable twat levels and Marr wanting to split

the track Frankly Mr. Shankly is about this

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:32 PM   #110
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They were distributed by Sire in the United States, an arm of Warner music.

Get your facts straight!

The Smiths were like the highest charting band in the U.K. in the 80's. To act as if they were some underground band that didn't get notoriety until the internet age is incredibly obnoxious.

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:35 PM   #111
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what's that billy corgan quote where he is like at the end of the day if you are an indie band, it's because you aren't good enough for the majors?

this thread is dangerously close to that

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:36 PM   #112
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yeah fuzzy I'm sure you grew up listening to the smiths and morrisey was a household name

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:42 PM   #113
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In the U.K. they were.

You do realize there is a rest of the world outside of the United States of America.

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:45 PM   #114
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They were distributed by Sire in the United States, an arm of Warner music.

Get your facts straight!

The Smiths were like the highest charting band in the U.K. in the 80's. To act as if they were some underground band that didn't get notoriety until the internet age is incredibly obnoxious.
they were still a Rough Trade band wtf are you on about

also not that it matters because you're wrong as shit anyway,

but Sire had a brief moment under Warner directly after the acquisition where it was still operating as a punk label and released records from Ramones, Talking Heads, Dead Boys, etc. most of these acts had signed to it prior to the acquisition

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:46 PM   #115
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You do realize there is a rest of the world outside of the United States of America.
what in the fuck are you even talking about

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:47 PM   #116
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Look at how The Queen Is Dead and Strangeways charted

1986 Dutch Albums[38] 11
1986 German Albums[39] 45
1986 New Zealand Albums[40] 17
1986 Swedish Albums[41] 39
1986 UK Albums Chart[42] 2
1986 US Billboard 200[43] 70
1986 Canadian Albums[44] 28
2017 German Albums[39] 33

1987 Dutch Albums[22] 20
1987 German Albums[23] 33
1987 New Zealand Albums[24] 14
1987 Swedish Albums[25] 13
1987 UK Albums Chart[26] 2
1987 US Billboard 200[27] 55

And you come around with this narrative that they're only big because of the internet... Get a clue, bro.

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:48 PM   #117
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that's not what I said whatsoever but you're mentally incapacitated so I'm not surprised you fail to understand literally everything

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:48 PM   #118
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oh man a number 70 album in 1986 they were on fire

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:49 PM   #119
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what in the fuck are you even talking about
I'm talking about your bullshit narrative that the Smiths wouldn't be big if it wasn't for the internet. You fail to realize that they were MASSIVE superstars in the U.K. and very popular around many countries around the rest of the world.

 
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:50 PM   #120
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I'm talking about your bullshit narrative that the Smiths wouldn't be big if it wasn't for the internet. You fail to realize that they were MASSIVE superstars in the U.K. and very popular around many countries around the rest of the world.
as I suspected, you're not talking about anything anyone else is talking about, and just being an insufferable idiot to draw attention to your pathetic, needy self

 
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