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Old 01-12-2002, 03:26 AM   #31
Comedy Doesn't Pay
 
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If people would just wait until they are married to have sex, then this wouldn't even be an issue.

 
Old 01-12-2002, 03:27 AM   #32
Crippler
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mayfuck:
Now you contradict your 'everyone deserves life' statement :/
Sooner or later, every ideal is going to contradict itself, mein freund.

Maybe my statement about people deserving life, admittingly, shouldn't have been so black-and-white.

It's true, it's true.

 
Old 01-12-2002, 03:27 AM   #33
SuckSuckStyle
 
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I know someone younger than me and she's had 3 abortions. I dont say abortions should be illegal, I just think she should be beaten.

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http://www.geocities.com/jamesismyho/squirrel.txt

N is for nuts.

[This message has been edited by SuckSuckStyle (edited 01-12-2002).]

 
Old 01-12-2002, 03:28 AM   #34
Crippler
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Comedy Doesn't Pay:
If people would just wait until they are married to have sex, then this wouldn't even be an issue.
Get your backwards, hypocritical, conservative ideals OUT OF MY FACE!

Seriously, this isn't true at all.

 
Old 01-12-2002, 03:36 AM   #35
phaedrus
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by sickbadthing:
i just changed my mind. COAT HANGERS FOR ALL!
if pro-lifers had their way that would be the type of option women would have to turn to.


 
Old 01-12-2002, 03:41 AM   #36
Flebath
 
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they shouldn't have sex if they know they don't want to raise a child. abortion is an easy option for them to murder their own mistakes. its not the baby's fault it was brought into the world by an irresponsible parent. if they do make the mistake and ending up getting pregnant than they should give the baby up for adoption like I said in my other post. they have no right to murder

 
Old 01-12-2002, 03:47 AM   #37
Flebath
 
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pro-life people get a bad name when lunatics go around killing abortion doctors. they are doing the opposite of what they are fighting for and don't accomplish anything. its our gvt's fault for ever allowing legal murder(abortion) in the first place.

 
Old 01-12-2002, 03:48 AM   #38
Crippler
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by phaedrus:
if pro-lifers had their way that would be the type of option women would have to turn to.

And that shows you just how stupid and thoughtless people can be.

 
Old 01-12-2002, 04:32 AM   #39
The exploding boy
 
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Red face

Quote:
Originally posted by sickbadthing:
i just changed my mind. COAT HANGERS FOR ALL!
IT reminds me that part in south park movie. What is it? "was my mom being careful when she stabbed with a coat hanger when i was in her womb?" or soemthing like that.

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~How can it not know what it is?~

 
Old 01-12-2002, 12:02 PM   #40
Lie
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flebath:
they shouldn't have sex if they know they don't want to raise a child. abortion is an easy option for them to murder their own mistakes. its not the baby's fault it was brought into the world by an irresponsible parent.
No, it's more like people shouldn't have sex unless they're prepared to deal with a possible pregnancy by whatever means necessary. I don't buy into the whole argument that you can't have sex unless you're prepared to start a family, because nearly all the people who use that argument plan on starting a family at sometime or another, and it makes me think, well, hey, it's great that you've got that all worked out neatly for yourself, but having children is a lifestyle choice and there are actually people in this world who never want to have children -- should they never be allowed to have sex?

And no, it's not the baby's fault. Which is why they shouldn't have to live with it. Having a child at the wrong time can ruin multiple lives, and to me that isn't worth it.



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Boot the grime of this world in the crotch, dear.

 
Old 01-12-2002, 12:32 PM   #41
BeautifulLoser
 
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I dunno, I consider it murder, therefore a sin...

But then I also believe, it's a woman's body, she can do with it what she wants.

So if a woman wants to go to hell, it's her choice. *shrug*

 
Old 01-12-2002, 01:45 PM   #42
Lie
 
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Talking

Quote:
Originally posted by BeautifulLoser:
I dunno, I consider it murder, therefore a sin...

But then I also believe, it's a woman's body, she can do with it what she wants.

So if a woman wants to go to hell, it's her choice. *shrug*
Aw, how sweet. http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/biggrin.gif



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Boot the grime of this world in the crotch, dear.

 
Old 01-12-2002, 01:54 PM   #43
BeautifulLoser
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lie:
Aw, how sweet. http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/biggrin.gif

http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/biggrin.gif

 
Old 01-12-2002, 02:00 PM   #44
bonsor
 
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Church and state are to remain seperate. To make laws based on what a religion should think other people's morals are is unconstitutional.

There was a debate in my English class about this. The prolifers in my class argued this:

Them: If you had a puppy, and you didn't want it anymore, would you kill it or give it away?
Me: I'd give it away, of course.
Them: So what makes you think the life of a puppy is of any more value than an unborn baby?
Me: You hunt, right?
Them: Yes, I do.
Me: So, what makes you think that the life of an elk is of any less value than that of a puppy, or an unborn baby?
Them: That's a different thing entirely!
Me: Why?
Them: Because we only shoot the male ones, and we eat it.
Me: ... So, by your logic, eating the aborted fetus makes abortion ok?

*bell rings. They leave*

I'm going to try to assume that all prolifers aren't this stupid.

 
Old 01-12-2002, 02:05 PM   #45
BeautifulLoser
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by ******:
Church and state are to remain seperate. To make laws based on what a religion should think other people's morals are is unconstitutional.

There was a debate in my English class about this. The prolifers in my class argued this:

Them: If you had a puppy, and you didn't want it anymore, would you kill it or give it away?
Me: I'd give it away, of course.
Them: So what makes you think the life of a puppy is of any more value than an unborn baby?
Me: You hunt, right?
Them: Yes, I do.
Me: So, what makes you think that the life of an elk is of any less value than that of a puppy, or an unborn baby?
Them: That's a different thing entirely!
Me: Why?
Them: Because we only shoot the male ones, and we eat it.
Me: ... So, by your logic, eating the aborted fetus makes abortion ok?

*bell rings. They leave*

I'm going to try to assume that all prolifers aren't this stupid.
Hahaha, you kick ass.. you're definitely one of the guys I would have hung out with if I were still in high school.

By the way, if that was in response to my "murder is a sin" comment, I was pointing out that I think it should still be the woman's choice... I agree, religion should be seperate. Just because I think it's wrong doesn't mean it's not ok to someone else.

After all, there's still that big debate on when life begins. Some people believe it's when the cells begin to divide, some believe it begins when the baby comes out of the womb. It's impossible to judge.

[This message has been edited by BeautifulLoser (edited 01-12-2002).]

 
Old 01-12-2002, 02:13 PM   #46
bonsor
 
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My grandmother (who is a republican, much to my surprise because of her leftist views) had a really good idea for regulating abortion. I can't quite remember what she said, but it was really interesting. I'll try to get it from her and pass it onto you guys sometime soon.

 
Old 01-12-2002, 02:18 PM   #47
bonsor
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by BeautifulLoser:
After all, there's still that big debate on when life begins. Some people believe it's when the cells begin to divide, some believe it begins when the baby comes out of the womb. It's impossible to judge.
This is the main issue at hand, and anyone who doesn't know anything about what goes on in the womb shouldn't talk about it and act like their opinion is valid.

The way I see it, if the fetus cannot survive outside of the womb, it is not alive. If it can come out and still survive, then it is alive. If it can't, it isn't. That just my uneducated opinion.

 
Old 01-12-2002, 02:23 PM   #48
BeautifulLoser
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by ******:
This is the main issue at hand, and anyone who doesn't know anything about what goes on in the womb shouldn't talk about it and act like their opinion is valid.

The way I see it, if the fetus cannot survive outside of the womb, it is not alive. If it can come out and still survive, then it is alive. If it can't, it isn't. That just my uneducated opinion.
That makes sense. I still think it's wrong to kill a child that's in your body, even if it can't live on it's own.

[This message has been edited by BeautifulLoser (edited 01-12-2002).]

 
Old 01-12-2002, 03:15 PM   #49
Flebath
 
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murder is murder no matter how you look at it.

 
Old 01-12-2002, 03:18 PM   #50
Flebath
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lie:
And no, it's not the baby's fault. Which is why they shouldn't have to live with it. Having a child at the wrong time can ruin multiple lives, and to me that isn't worth it.
so they can just kill of something they caused in the first place? they have no right to murder a child that they produced. no one forced them to do it.

 
Old 01-12-2002, 03:21 PM   #51
Flebath
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by ******:
[b]Church and state are to remain seperate. To make laws based on what a religion should think other people's morals are is unconstitutional.
[b]
regardless of what religion you believe in, murder is murder. you can't get away murdering an adult, so why should an innocent baby be killed off just because its parents think they can't raise it.

[This message has been edited by Flebath (edited 01-12-2002).]

 
Old 01-12-2002, 03:32 PM   #52
Smack Me In My Mouth
 
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Question

I'd like to see some definitions of the word "murder" before I take my stand.

 
Old 01-12-2002, 03:35 PM   #53
Flebath
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Smack Me In My Mouth:
I'd like to see some definitions of the word "murder" before I take my stand.
1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought

from http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

 
Old 01-12-2002, 03:46 PM   #54
Smack Me In My Mouth
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flebath:
1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought
But abortion is legal. Therefore, it's not "unlawful", so you've no legs to stand on.

[This message has been edited by Smack Me In My Mouth (edited 01-12-2002).]

 
Old 01-12-2002, 04:50 PM   #55
Graveflower
 
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Arrow

Quote:
Originally posted by Crippler:
And that shows you just how stupid and thoughtless people can be.
It's true though, before abortions were legal, women would shove coat hangers in their vaginas, or have doctors perform illegal abortions which were often done with dirty equipment, or done completely wrong, and the women themselves would end up dying.


 
Old 01-12-2002, 05:09 PM   #56
Nothing/everything
 
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I want to throw in something else:

People who have troubles with getting children sometimes use IVF. With IVF (in vitro fertilisation) about 20 eggcells are taken and fertilized. So those are living embroys. One of those (the best one) gets implanted, the other ones are thrown away.(until some years ago, in some countries these embryos are used in stemcell research.) They are created just to be sure to get an ok embryo.

Why is IVF widely accepted, and abortion not?

 
Old 01-12-2002, 05:29 PM   #57
Helena Handbasket
 
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally posted by Flebath:
they shouldn't have sex if they know they don't want to raise a child. abortion is an easy option for them to murder their own mistakes. its not the baby's fault it was brought into the world by an irresponsible parent. if they do make the mistake and ending up getting pregnant than they should give the baby up for adoption like I said in my other post. they have no right to murder

 
Old 01-12-2002, 05:46 PM   #58
Graveflower
 
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Thumbs down

Un "unborn baby" isn't even a baby until a certain point in development. Why isn't it ok to get an abortion before then?

 
Old 01-12-2002, 05:57 PM   #59
Injektilo
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by ******:

This is the main issue at hand, and anyone who doesn't know anything about what goes on in the womb shouldn't talk about it and act like their opinion is valid.

The way I see it, if the fetus cannot survive outside of the womb, it is not alive. If it can come out and still survive, then it is alive. If it can't, it isn't. That just my uneducated opinion.
exactly. The whole debate centres around what each person feels is a human being. if we all agree that killing humans is wrong, and agree that a fetus is a human, then there is no way to justify abortion. if we agree that a fetus isn't a human being, then there's nothing wrong with abortion cause your're just getting rid of unwanted cells like a haircut or something.
So, it all comes down to what makes a bunch of cells a human. i don't follow your idea ******, because i personally was born 5 weeks before i was due. kids born before the 9 months can still survive, so it seems like a bit of a technicality to call the line at "when the umbilical cord is cut"

my personal definition is it becomes a human when brain waves first appear. though everyone else has their own definition i suppose.




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how'd this world get so fucking fun, all of a sudden?

 
Old 01-12-2002, 06:01 PM   #60
Injektilo
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by lucky_13:
um this is just a casual question that just popped into my head but are men even allowed to have a set opinion on abortion? its not like it has such a severe effect on them.


I think that saying men can't have an opinion on abortion is like saying women can't have an opinon on how moral war is. after all, men are 99.99% of the soldiers world wide, so women should just forget their opinions on it.
if a man thinks abortion is murder, it probably affects them. so yeah, men can have an opinion on abortion.

 
 


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