Netphoria Message Board


Go Back   Netphoria Message Board > Archives > General Chat Archive
Register Netphoria's Amazon.com Link Members List Mark Forums Read

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-11-2002, 02:03 PM   #1
Helena Handbasket
 
Posts: n/a
Post Kurt's suicide on Unsolved Mysteries

Did you know...

-The suicide note was thought to be a letter of reitirement to his fans, except for the last four lines. Coincidentally, the last four lines, when examined my handwriting analysts, they thought they were "suspicious", and could have been done by someone elese, trying to copy Kurt's writing.

-Kurt was found with an amount of heroin in his system that would've made it impossible to function enough to even shoot a gun

-There weren't any fingerprints found on the gun or the pen used to write the note

-There was activiy on his credit card the day before his body was found (which would've been a few days after he actually shot himself)

I dunno if this is old news or anything, I just thought it was weird.

------------------
...I'll put the fire out with my splooge!

AIM - elegantsomething

 
Old 01-11-2002, 02:07 PM   #2
StillBecomingApart
 
Posts: n/a
Thumbs up

I didn't know that

------------------
<dndmepunk> you can't use english correctly but you know how to say fuck you, i find that funny
<dndmepunk> if you don't know english, you at least know fuck you
<dndmepunk> i don't know italian....i don't know italian bad words either

http://www.IofTheMourning.com/images/excel.jpg http://www.IofTheMourning.com/images/hayat.jpg http://www.IofTheMourning.com/images/puchuu.jpg

 
Old 01-11-2002, 02:21 PM   #3
BeautifulLoser
 
Posts: n/a
Post

I knew about a few of those things.. didn't know about the Credit Card thing. Weird.

 
Old 01-11-2002, 02:26 PM   #4
Sentinel
 
Posts: n/a
Post

there's more where that came from....


http://www.cobaincase.com/

 
Old 01-11-2002, 02:51 PM   #5
meow
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Did you know...

-Unsolved Mysteries will tell you ANYTHING to get you to watch them because they need the ratings.

 
Old 01-11-2002, 02:53 PM   #6
Undone
 
Posts: n/a
Red face

I already knew a few of those too--these kinds of things make me paranoid b/c I have no idea who Tom Grant is and if his page is 'official' and if he is an actual investigator. And if he has his own motives. How much of that info is true?

 
Old 01-11-2002, 02:56 PM   #7
Undone
 
Posts: n/a
Post

The page also says that the gun wasn't checked for prints until a month after the death; that doesn't mean there were no prints in the first place. It also assumes that the gun was purchased for protection and not suicide just b/c there were 3 bullets loaded. If I were going to kill myself, I'd be sure that if I somehow fucked that up the first time I'd have another one coming quick.

 
Old 01-11-2002, 02:59 PM   #8
meow
 
Posts: n/a
Post

no prints= no COMPLETE prints.. there may have been smudges but nothing they could get a sample from

 
Old 01-11-2002, 03:00 PM   #9
Undone
 
Posts: n/a
Post

The heroin part and the note are the 2 things that I think are the kickers. I know very little about drugs, and I have no idea how long heroin dosage takes to go into effect though this page (which I don't entirely trust) says that amount would immediately incapacitate someone.

A lot of people say drop it b/c it's "old" news, but that's ridiculous as in relative terms, it's still a fairly recent event. There is enough suspicious evidence to bring this to trial. Murder trials are brought up decades after the fact when necessary.

 
Old 01-11-2002, 04:00 PM   #10
THE MACHINA666
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Well... I've read many time the detective's report (the one that Courtney hired, and the one who's believing she's guilty as piss), and I must admit: there is someting weird there.

According to him, at least.

Some details:

-Kurt was shooting up WAY more than a "normal" person. But people got to the conclusion "he had 3 times the heroin required in his body to o-d" and decided that this was the truth.

Though I admit, 3 times the quantity is a bit much...


Here... while we're at it, here's some of Tom Grant's (detective) things most people don't know:

-COURTNEY LOVE WAS FACING A DIVORCE

Kurt was in the process of leaving Seattle and his wife Courtney, when he was found dead.

-SOMEONE WAS USING KURT'S CREDIT CARD

One of Kurt's credit cards was missing when his body was discovered.

Someone was attempting to use the missing credit card after Cobain died, but the attempts stopped when his body was discovered.

-COBAIN WAS IN FEAR OF HIS LIFE

The shotgun found at the scene was purchased BEFORE Cobain left for rehab in Los Angeles, NOT AFTER he fled the rehab as reported by misinformed media sources.

The shotgun was fully loaded with three shells. It was purchased and loaded for protection, not suicide.

The police claim there were no legible fingerprints on this shotgun!

The truth is, the shotgun wasn't even checked for fingerprints until May 6th, nearly one month after Cobain's body was found.

-COURTNEY HAD ANOTHER NOTE SHE KEPT IN SECRET!

Courtney was in possession of a second note after Kurt's body was found! SHE DIDN'T TELL ANYONE about this second note until several months later when information about it slipped out during an interview with Rolling Stone Magazine.

The second note, the one that Courtney kept in secret, clearly defines the first note which was found at the scene of Cobain's death. The "second note" from Kurt plainly states he was leaving Courtney and he was leaving Seattle. He was NOT leaving the planet!

-COBAIN WAS INJECTED WITH 3 TIMES A LETHAL DOSE OF HEROIN!!

Cobain's heroin, (morphine), blood level was 1.52 mgs per liter. This would require a minimum injection of 225 mgs of heroin, three times a lethal dose, even for a hardcore heroin addict! The drug Diazepam, was also found in Cobain's blood system.

THE OBVIOUS QUESTIONS:

1. If Cobain injected himself with a deliberate heroin overdose, why would he ALSO shoot himself in the head with a shotgun, leaving his baby daughter - the love of his life - with horrific visual images to remember him by? Why not just "go to sleep" on the overdose and never wake up?

2. IF Cobain injected three times a lethal dose of heroin, COULD he then pick up a shotgun and shoot himself? Wouldn't he have been immediately incapacitated?

Based on the heroin, (morphine), blood levels found in Cobain's body, preliminary research indicates Kurt Cobain would have been immediately incapacitated. He could not have picked up that shotgun. He could not have pulled that trigger!

IN ADDITION...

Cobain was not barricaded inside the room as reported by misinformed media sources.

The stool which was supposedly wedged" against the door was actually just sitting in front of the two unlocked doors that only led out to a balcony.

Cobain did not leave his Driver’s License out for identification as reported by misinformed media sources.

The first police officer on the scene found Cobain's closed wallet, opened it to remove Kurt's driver's license, and displayed it in order to take a photograph.

THE FACT IS...

The police and the Medical Examiner have no forensic evidence that proves Cobain's death was a suicide. On the other hand, there's a substantial amount of evidence for murder.

The official verdict of "suicide" was simply a rush to judgement which eventually painted the authorities into a corner as reports of so-called "copy-cat" suicides began making the news.

As you examine this case carefully, you're going to discover there's much more to the events surrounding Cobain's death than what you've been told.

Source: http://www.cobaincase.com/


Also:

-Kurt had music plan w/ his buddy, the lead singer from R.E.M.

Nothing was ever recorded.


Don't get ideas though: tom Grant is a weird fellow, too. The fact that he SAW the "second" letter, and DIDN'T take it when he had the chance proves that he might JUST NOT be the best damn detective around.

Maybe Courtney played him. She might be crazy, she's still smart.


The fact is: we DON'T know shit, and we're NOT going to know shit either.


R.I.P Kurt...


------------------
On my own... when I need you...

 
Old 01-11-2002, 04:00 PM   #11
tootsie
 
Posts: n/a
Post

i think its nasty tom grant is making money off of kurt's death.

whatever tho, it really wasnt investigated as much as it should have been.

------------------
aim: nicepickle
help get me through my workday.

 
Old 01-11-2002, 04:06 PM   #12
Etienne
 
Posts: n/a
Post

As for the heroin question, If you whould have shot that much heroin at once, witch he whould have had to to still have that much in his system for the exam, He whould have been unconcious before he even took the needle out of his arm.

Kurts dead. Sure it was suspicious, Everyone knows about the El Duce thing right? but he isnt comming back so just let the man rest in peace.

------------------
Ugly can be beautiful, but pretty, never ~The Countess

 
Old 01-11-2002, 04:18 PM   #13
THE MACHINA666
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by tootsie:
i think its nasty tom grant is making money off of kurt's death.

whatever tho, it really wasnt investigated as much as it should have been.

He's broke. I don't even think he's a detective now. There was some court shit between him and Courtney if I remember correctly.

He's been saying she was guilty almost right away, so he's not just "making money over a strange little story". Even today he says the same thing as in 1994.

But I agree w/ you. All this case was like sloppy joe. When he wanted to go search a certain house, and Courtney told him not too, that it was already been searched by "someone else", he should have had brain enough to fucking go! Or get someone HE trust to go there.


If I remember correctly again, I think that's where Kurt was found...

 
Old 01-11-2002, 05:51 PM   #14
Andrew_Pakula
 
Posts: n/a
Post

I think I remember an interview Billy did once where he was asked about Courtney and Kurt around that time, his response was something he knows a lot more of the behind the scenes stuff that was going on at the time then anyone even currently knows, based on his previous relationship with Courtney makes me wonder if he really knows happened reguarding Kurt's death. However if Billy does know I suppose it's one of those things you might just take to your grave.

 
Old 01-11-2002, 06:08 PM   #15
Etienne
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by THE MACHINA666:
[b]
and Courtney told him not too, that it was already been searched by "someone else", he should have had brain enough to fucking go! Or get someone HE trust to go there.
B]
Courtney told him not to search the green house because nothing was up there, that was 2 days after he was actually dead, and a day or so before his body was found. She only let him search the main house.

The rumor is Kurt had the shotgun up in the green house with him, because no one could see the greenhouse when approaching at night, he was trying to protect himself, Dylan suposedly always hung out with him in the greenhouse, and brought him drugs all the time, implying that he was there when kurt died. this is probaly just courtney propaganda though.

------------------
Ugly can be beautiful, but pretty, never ~The Countess

 
Old 01-11-2002, 06:09 PM   #16
Human Replica Droid
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Doesn't Courtney have an alibi?

 
Old 01-11-2002, 06:18 PM   #17
bonsor
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by Andrew_Pakula:
I think I remember an interview Billy did once where he was asked about Courtney and Kurt around that time, his response was something he knows a lot more of the behind the scenes stuff that was going on at the time then anyone even currently knows, based on his previous relationship with Courtney makes me wonder if he really knows happened reguarding Kurt's death. However if Billy does know I suppose it's one of those things you might just take to your grave.
A lot of SP fans are Hole fans as well and visa versa. In the highly unlikely case that Billy was the only one who actually knew that Courtney did it, he would be hesitant to testify, because it would fuck his career over.

 
Old 01-11-2002, 06:20 PM   #18
luminescent
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by THE MACHINA666:

If Cobain injected himself with a deliberate heroin overdose, why would he ALSO shoot himself in the head with a shotgun, leaving his baby daughter - the love of his life - with horrific visual images to remember him by? Why not just "go to sleep" on the overdose and never wake up?


lmfao!

how fucking DUMB is this guy??

jesus christ...never again..haha.



------------------
thats right, im STILL the funnest one to talk to around!

aim - AnotherSpaceJam

 
Old 01-11-2002, 06:23 PM   #19
Etienne
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by Human Replica Droid:
Doesn't Courtney have an alibi?
dosent she always. no one thinks courtney pulled the triger, but she probally pain someone else to do it.. Enter EL duce

------------------
Ugly can be beautiful, but pretty, never ~The Countess

 
Old 01-11-2002, 06:52 PM   #20
THE MACHINA666
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by luminescent:
lmfao!

how fucking DUMB is this guy??

jesus christ...never again..haha.

Yeah... that's what I was saying... that guy isn't the sharpest tool...



------------------
On my own... when I need you...

 
Old 01-11-2002, 07:06 PM   #21
THE MACHINA666
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Something's missing in here... John maybe?


[This message has been edited by THE MACHINA666 (edited 01-11-2002).]

 
Old 01-11-2002, 07:32 PM   #22
tootsie
 
Posts: n/a
Post

actually, courtney has said several times that billiam saved her life in the days after kurts death. he cleaned all the puke off her and washed her up and took care of her. she said he saved her life.

so if billy believes she did it, he'd be pretty nuts to be that close to her.

------------------
aim: nicepickle
help get me through my workday.

 
Old 01-12-2002, 03:54 PM   #23
paranoid
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by Andrew_Pakula:
I think I remember an interview Billy did once where he was asked about Courtney and Kurt around that time, his response was something he knows a lot more of the behind the scenes stuff that was going on at the time then anyone even currently knows, based on his previous relationship with Courtney makes me wonder if he really knows happened reguarding Kurt's death. However if Billy does know I suppose it's one of those things you might just take to your grave.
if we're talking about the same interview here then BC's words got twisted.

It was Howard Stern right? they were talking about Evan Dando and stern says "isn't this the guy that was said to be with courtney at the time of kurts death?" and all billy said was "you wouldn't believe half the shit i know"

------------------
Dinner ready is Pizza?!

 
Old 01-12-2002, 04:25 PM   #24
Nick K
 
Posts: n/a
Post

i don't have any strong opinion on whether he shot himself or someone else did, but judging from all i've read above the case should at least be re-opened.

 
Old 01-12-2002, 05:54 PM   #25
Nate the Grate
 
Posts: n/a
Post

regarding the finger prints: the gun was pried away from kurt's hands after rigor mortis had set in. likely, the prints were smudged off.

and kurt was already known to take insane amounts of heroin and walk away from it.

 
Old 01-12-2002, 06:13 PM   #26
Flebath
 
Posts: n/a
Arrow

anyone wanting some more info should def. check out Kurt & Courtney. that was a very interesting movie. I think it was Courtney's plan for a long time to further her career by killing Kurt. Another interesting thing is the mystery surrounding Jim Morrison's death. There were many things that didn't add up just like Kurt's. Anyone interested should check out http://www.jmorrison.cjb.net/ its under the rumors, myths, and urban legends part of the site.

------------------
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...2/fe01a60a.jpg

For the music is your special friend
Dance on fire as it intends
Music is your only friend
Until the end
Until the end
Until the end

 
Old 01-12-2002, 07:09 PM   #27
pumpkintear
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Doesn't that detective guys site say that Courtney was bragging that she was sleeping with Billy a few days after Kurt died?

 
Old 01-12-2002, 07:16 PM   #28
numberthirteen
 
Posts: n/a
Post

I thought this mystery was already solved in the court of public opinion

------------------
I want his heart. I want to eat his children. Praise be to Allah ... I want to rip out his heart and feed it to him.

 
Old 01-12-2002, 09:44 PM   #29
jenny4ever
 
Posts: n/a
Post

I saw parts of the documentary and now after reading the summary of events i think she did it-the rolling stone interview is really weird and Courtney is just so inconsistent.

"THE ROLLING STONE INTERVIEW
The DECEMBER. 15, 1994 issue of Rolling Stone featured an interview with Courtney by David Fricke. This was one of the most interesting interviews I've read so far. It describes Courtney's mind-set and reveals what I consider to be a psychopathic personality.
Throughout this interview, Courtney seems preoccupied with convincing everyone how suicidal Kurt was. She tells a story about Kurt bringing a gun to the hospital room when Frances was born and she heroically grabbed the gun from him and said, "I'll go first, I can't have you do it first. I'll go first."

This whole story is difficult to believe. I find it interesting that Courtney was so absorbed in promoting the image of Kurt's suicidal tendencies right after his beautiful daughter was born, that she showed no concern at all for the fact that Frances would grow up hearing this horror story once it got published. It certainly wouldn't be the best thing for her self-esteem.


BUT NOW...THERE'S ANOTHER NOTE?!
Questions about Kurt's so-called "suicide note" were also raised by Fricke during the Rolling Stone interview with Courtney. Feeling pressured to explain why the note was so confusing and not really suicidal, Courtney finally admitted Kurt also left her another note!

Oh really!!

During a taped telephone conversation between her and I on January 19, 1995, I asked Courtney about this "other" note. She claimed she found it on her bed under a pillow. I know this is not true because Thursday morning, well after the time of Kurt's death, I looked under the pillows. I also looked under the bed and between the mattresses. That's where I found a package of the drug Rohypnol that I later told Courtney about. Dylan and I were looking everywhere for drugs and drug paraphernalia that might indicate whether or not Kurt had been in the house recently.

I asked her why she didn't tell me about the "other" note when she found it, or even some time later. After all, she had indicated she wanted me to investigate her husband's death. I couldn't understand why she'd withhold such a vital piece of evidence! Courtney said she didn't think it was necessary.

"I told Sgt. Cameron about it," she told me. "And I told Rosemary about it." Another obvious lie!

If the police knew right away about this "other" note, it would have been listed as evidence and mentioned in the police reports. If Rosemary Carroll would have known about it during the first few months after Cobain's death, she certainly would have told me. She had put her career and relationship with Courtney at risk to provide me with evidence, including Courtney's phone records from the Peninsula Hotel. She was working closely with me to find out what happened. Rosemary was telling me everything else. There's no way she would have kept details of this "second note" from me!

Even more important however, is what the second note says. Courtney admitted to me it wasn't suicidal. She quoted some lines to Rolling Stone, "You know I love you, I love Frances, I'm so sorry. Please don't follow me... I'll be there, I'll protect you. I don't know where I'm going, I just can't be here anymore."

So the reason I was never told about the second note and the reason it was never released to the media is obvious: The note found at the scene by the police was simply a retirement letter written to Kurt's fans. It wasn't a "suicide" note! Upon close examination, the words at the bottom of this note, "Which will be so much happier without me," appear to have been added to the note by another hand.

The second note, the one Courtney kept in secret, defines the first note, the one discovered at the scene. Kurt was quitting the music business. He was leaving Courtney and he was leaving Seattle. That's all he was doing. . . and Courtney knew it!"


 
Old 01-12-2002, 09:51 PM   #30
THE MACHINA666
 
Posts: n/a
Post

And Courtney knew that w/ a divorce, she would have 50% of all his stuff. And 100% if he died.

 
 


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is On
Google


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:32 AM.




Smashing Pumpkins, Alternative Music
& General Discussion Message Board and Forums
www.netphoria.org - Copyright © 1998-2022