Chrysanthemum - a wish unwished, a hope unhoped

[Grox]

what an amazing song. i think this is one of the most clear-headed and optimistic songs Bill's ever written. the pumpkins break up and end at the metro with a funereal final concert that ends with one of the most brutal and anguished Silverfucks they ever performed. His heart is broken and he cries on stage but is too embarrassed to show it and doesn't allow himself the catharsis of letting his behemoth band and his entire life up to that point die. Instead of carrying on with Jimmy and other players, he killed the band out of a misplaced loyalty in James as a brother in arms, that once he lost interest and didn't want to be there, he had a duty to retire what they had started. And then the guy leaves the Metro that night without saying goodbye to Billy or Jimmy.

I'm not surprised Billy still says shit like "James Iha is one of the worst human beings I've ever met." that must've been incredibly traumatic - to realize you just drove your life's work into the dirt out of loyalty and respect for a man you thought was a comrade, a lifelong friend, however delusional that might've been in 2000, and then to have him dip out without saying goodbye. That is the single event that will never bring Billy and James together again. it's really sad.

So less than a year later, Billy and Jimmy are back with a new band, and Chrysanthemum is the first post-Pumpkins song. It's not bitter, pissed off, or at all concerned with dwelling on the past (Bill's forté). it's a beautifully simple and transcendent song and lyric that has a lot of similarities with Muzzle - totally open, honest, reflective, with no excuses or blame laid. "yesterday" was great, but it's time to move on, and here we are. it's one of the few times post-Pumpkins, before Oceania, when he writes a riff in 'classic pumpkins' style and doesn't qualify it like "untitled" with some bullshit "see i can still do it nananana." such a shame that Zwan is a footnote joke in rock history now.

yesterday you still seemed all right
you'd still hold me tight and whisper me my name
now the time has come to let this go

there i go walking straight but backwards
there i go talking upside down
there i go
there i go singing slow but faster
there i go dragging love around
there i go

staying up to find the way you'll always let me bloom
i am a part of everything you've loved and hated so
you know i'd pay a lot to cry, to try to understand
a flower's still a flower crushed to dust inside my hand

we were going somewhere
we were going somewhere

yesterday you still seemed so bold
you'd still draw the road i'd always walk upon

now i've paid for mistakes i've made
for the way i've strayed and never taken pause
now the time has come to let this show

there i go walking straight but backwards
there i go talking upside down
there i go
there i go singing slow but faster
there i go dragging love around
there i go

there i go singing slow but faster sometimes
up inside my youth, to wear a troubled crown
you know i'd pay a lot to cry, to try to understand
a flower's still a flower crushed to dust inside my hand

we were going somewhere
we were going somewhere
we were going somewhere

yesterday
yesterday
yesterday
yesterday we were going somewhere
we were going somewhere

[slunken]

idk about anyone else, but most of the (early at least) songs seemed really confessional/autobiographical - like i was taking the lyrics as serious fucking business. i mean this song was the very first thing you heard of zwan - it was such a rush. like really packed to the brim and bursting.

that said, pure energy aside - there are much better zwan songs.

[Ram27]

fucking yes.

JC kills on the drums for this too.

I do really enjoy the fact that the first word he sang post-pumpkins was 'yesterday'


There are so many good Zwan songs...like all these 2001 rock shows, then those acoustic shows in Indy that were comprised of entirely different songs. There are two damn good albums there! And then MSOTS happened.

[redbull]

Originally Posted by Ram27

There are so many good Zwan songs...like all these 2001 rock shows, then those acoustic shows in Indy that were comprised of entirely different songs. There are two damn good albums there! And then MSOTS happened.

post-sp1 in a nutshell right here

[toase]

I was listened to this today, I love spilled milk too, the guitar parts

I didn't read your text though, sorry

[Butt Pope]

Zwan was fun

[bunny]

ruined in the studio. typical bald cunt.
the pre-album material might not have been as pop or condensed concise song writing, but it was honest and full of life.
billy blames the band, but the clown is too blind (even in hindsight) that he disrespected them treating them like children and making them do as he wanted.
fuck that cunt.

[toase]

in a nutshell [2]

[slunken]

Originally Posted by bunny

ruined in the studio.
fuck that cunt.

typical telephone history.

in the grand scheme of things - the album is shaping up to be an unheralded classic.

[cardiac]

These Maide Vale UK sessions still sound fantastic to me. They could've pulled off a fantastic album had they only recorded an album that's essentially polished studio live recordings.

[Grox]

the ending riff is really similar to Jellybelly, maybe "we were going somewhere" is a reference to "we're nowhere to be"

[wounded]

Man people were still stoked for corgan back then. He really had something there with that first batch of songs and then it all went to shit.

[dreams of glass]

Live Zwan really does sound better than the album

https://youtu.be/F9PWQpMrku8?t=14m

[warewolf95]

What's the best sounding version of Chrysanthemum available?

[Grox]

the first show. second performance is really messy, jimmy must've been railed or something

[dreams of glass]

Originally Posted by slunken

idk about anyone else, but most of the (early at least) songs seemed really confessional/autobiographical - like i was taking the lyrics as serious fucking business. i mean this song was the very first thing you heard of zwan - it was such a rush. like really packed to the brim and bursting.

that said, pure energy aside - there are much better zwan songs.

such as...?

[Butt Pope]

Originally Posted by warewolf95

What's the best sounding version of Chrysanthemum available?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

[Butt Pope]

old school tom foolery on that one

[cardiac]

Originally Posted by dreams of glass

such as...?

Always felt like the obvious single from all their material. That's one catchy chorus right there.

[Ram27]

It sounds like Learn to Fly

Quality song though


I think Never Give Up has very popular, catchy, radio-y lyrics and riffs. Good song

[warewolf95]

Originally Posted by Grox

the first show. second performance is really messy, jimmy must've been railed or something

Thanks for the heads up. I was meaning more in the realms of sound quality vs performance, but thanks anyway.

[warewolf95]

Originally Posted by Butt Pope

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

thanks mate

[Rocket Launcher]

I really hope a studio version of this magically appears someday

[slunken]

i would just like for the NO SBDS thing to be lifted from the zwan archive.

[slunken]

somebody should start uploading them as AUDSBD

[bunny]

didn't we trade those out on theHUB anyways?

[Rocket Launcher]

ask the rat bastard maybe? what up with fogelsong?

[IWishIWasBlank]

Good to see that Corganist returned under the guise of "Grox," toting the standard 'Billy is perfection.' attitude.

There was a shit ton of potential for post-Pumpkins. I don't recall what happened but for some reason I was offline when Zwan began to break, and when I came back, it was done, I had missed the boat and the pulse on something that could have been cool to get into. To this day, it's just not what it could have been for me.

[slunken]

I havent done a fuck ton of research but i think the glass house dat-re-transfer is the best sounding early show

[Ram27]

Originally Posted by Grox

That is the single event that will never bring Billy and James together again. it's really sad.

love your ode to Chrysanthemum so much but this part....