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Old 10-22-2015, 02:31 PM   #31
topleybird
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It's a really good song, exploding boy

 
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Old 10-22-2015, 02:36 PM   #32
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Pretty much the only songs without shitty lyrics are Tonight, Ruby and Porcelina

Everything else I kind of cringe while listening
STFU. 33 is one of his best lyrics ever.

 
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Old 10-23-2015, 12:16 AM   #33
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Here Is No Why is a top 10 Pumpkins song for fuck's sake. I was always disappointed they didn't play it much live. That song is the number one reason I bought my first guitar in 1996. Finally nailing it once all the way through was one of the most satisfying experiences I've ever had as a musician.

Also I think some of his most honest lyrics on the record. Is there any moment of more explicit candor in SP than:

glitter burned by restless thoughts of being forgotten
and in your sad machines you'll forever stay
desperate and displeased with whoever you are
and you're a star

90% of every interview he's ever given can be explained in this prismatic moment of self-insight.

May the king of gloom be forever doomed.

 
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Old 10-23-2015, 12:28 AM   #34
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About two years ago I was listening to Fuck You for the millionth time and realized that the very last time the guitars kick in after the rest, there's an additional guitar track and slight volume increase.

Also I think it was like 6 or 7 years after I first got it that I noticed during Muzzle where the background vocals sing "as I was floating by." The reissue kind of showed me how many damn layers there were to some of those songs too.

 
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Old 10-23-2015, 01:26 AM   #35
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I'm surprised a lot of you think the MCIS lyrics are weak. In my opinion you can read the lyric book like a poem book. It's just some really good shit. Tonight, Thirty Three, 1979, Zero, By Starlight, To Forgive, In the Arms of Sleep, Stumbleine, Muzzle...those are just incredible.

 
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Old 10-23-2015, 06:17 AM   #36
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I'd say Stumbleine, 33 and 1979 have good lyrics. Many other songs have lyrics that work really well in the context of the song. And then there are a few that are just plain silly (BWBW is the main offender).

 
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Old 10-23-2015, 08:45 AM   #37
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I also think the lyrics on MCIS are really good. Admittedly it's hard for me to disconnect my perception of this album from my emotional connection to it, but some of them are really brilliant to me. In the old days Corgan was a seriously gifted lyricist. His ability to evoke powerful feelings through abstract word association and imagery is very poetic.

The only thing about this album that continues to seem worse over time is the production on the heavy songs. Even on a really nice sound system, the distorted guitars and drums feel like a mess sometimes and you lose a lot of the detail from both.

 
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Old 10-23-2015, 08:52 AM   #38
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Here is No Why holy fuck easily a top ten Pumpkins song. The epicness is not about the size, it is about the power. it so purely captures the confusion and frustration and anxiety of being young, but also of feeling powerful, like you are capable of more if you could just break through all the shit the world throws at you. The lilting, sluggish riff for the verse followed by the immense fury of the power chords in the chorus.... it defies words, it's just real, man.

and the solo HOLY FFFFUUUUUCK it sounds like a goddamn rocket taking off into space

but I can relate to not getting a fan favorite. Although I like Ruby a lot, it never felt as honest or ultimately as good to me as most other people consider it to be.

 
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Old 10-23-2015, 09:03 AM   #39
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...that final chorus in Here Is No Why, just when you think it get any heavier or the guitars any thicker, you are proven wrong. amazing. and that solo...

top 5 for me... probably number 1.

 
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Old 10-23-2015, 09:48 AM   #40
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yeah it's amazing

Especially live when Melvoin plays chords and stuff over it and it gets that much louder and more epic

 
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Old 10-23-2015, 09:58 AM   #41
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yeah it's amazing

Especially live when Melvoin plays chords and stuff over it and it gets that much louder and more epic
well he can't do that anymore but ya know

 
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Old 10-23-2015, 10:46 AM   #42
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yeah it's amazing

Especially live when Melvoin plays chords and stuff over it and it gets that much louder and more epic
agreed, the synth really thickened up that last chorus... made it huge.


 
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Old 10-23-2015, 12:38 PM   #43
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see i really don't get you guise. but i have a feeling here is no why is a song you either love or hate. Like how is that riff not super fucking boring.

to me it sounds like it should be OBVIOUS to everyone it's one of the worst on mcis. But i'm not gonna keep arguing it cause arguing taste is dumb. i just don't hear what you guys hear.

and if nothing else how could the lyrics be among favorites..... "somewhere he pulls his hair down over a frowning smile "may the king of gloom be forever doomed" i mean for srs guys.... "and in your sad machine you'll forever stay" *shrug*

also agree with christian zombie, i don't get why people don't like we only come out at night. Maybe because it doesn't have big guitars or jimmy drums. i guess. it's kind of a pretty song past the original silliness.

 
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Old 10-23-2015, 01:22 PM   #44
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Yeah you suck Here is No Why is probably the best song on the album

 
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Old 10-23-2015, 01:44 PM   #45
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Take Me Down is the worst song for sure.

also, worst mellon collie track

 
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Old 10-23-2015, 02:19 PM   #46
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Yeah you suck Here is No Why is probably the best song on the album
It might be.

For real.

 
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Old 10-23-2015, 02:24 PM   #47
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also agree with christian zombie, i don't get why people don't like we only come out at night. Maybe because it doesn't have big guitars or jimmy drums. i guess. it's kind of a pretty song past the original silliness.
the extremes like the silliness of WOCOAT, and the over the top aggressive TOASE, the cheesey family closure F&G. MCIS is all about outliers in every direction billy could go.

 
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Old 10-23-2015, 04:23 PM   #48
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I agree with those who say We Only Come Out At Night is great, but am I the only one who doesn't find it silly? Billy made it sound silly live (pajamas shows), but the album version sounds so bittersweet and wistful to me.

 
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Old 10-23-2015, 05:01 PM   #49
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the extremes like the silliness of WOCOAT, and the over the top aggressive TOASE, the cheesey family closure F&G. MCIS is all about outliers in every direction billy could go.
yep, he described it himself as the expansion of the classic Pumpkins sound to its end.

of course a few years later he started recycling his old sounds and has been doing so ever since

 
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Old 10-23-2015, 05:20 PM   #50
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see i really don't get you guise. but i have a feeling here is no why is a song you either love or hate. Like how is that riff not super fucking boring.

to me it sounds like it should be OBVIOUS to everyone it's one of the worst on mcis. But i'm not gonna keep arguing it cause arguing taste is dumb. i just don't hear what you guys hear.

and if nothing else how could the lyrics be among favorites..... "somewhere he pulls his hair down over a frowning smile "may the king of gloom be forever doomed" i mean for srs guys.... "and in your sad machine you'll forever stay" *shrug*

also agree with christian zombie, i don't get why people don't like we only come out at night. Maybe because it doesn't have big guitars or jimmy drums. i guess. it's kind of a pretty song past the original silliness.
fwiw, billy said the song was an 'ode to his overly-dramatic 18 year old goth self' (paraphrasing), which i'm sure that millions of teenage smashing pumpkins fans could relate to.

the main point that i haven't seen anybody mention is that the song is not glorifying that sort of behavior, but rather realizing how ridiculous it was. its a song about how he was obsessed with the cure and how stupid that was, essentially.

 
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Old 10-23-2015, 05:46 PM   #51
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yeah the lyrics are making fun of his teenage self

 
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Old 10-23-2015, 06:07 PM   #52
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for what it's worth:
WOCOAN comes up on spotify goth playlists one in a while.

 
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Old 10-23-2015, 07:08 PM   #53
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fwiw, billy said the song was an 'ode to his overly-dramatic 18 year old goth self' (paraphrasing), which i'm sure that millions of teenage smashing pumpkins fans could relate to.

the main point that i haven't seen anybody mention is that the song is not glorifying that sort of behavior, but rather realizing how ridiculous it was. its a song about how he was obsessed with the cure and how stupid that was, essentially.
it's definitely about being an overly dramatic teenager and an acknowledgement of that silliness, but I don't think it's meant in a demeaning way, but more of a recognition that when you are in that spot, all those feelings are real and that's all there is. There's a quote from Bill that goes something to the end of it doesn't really matter that what you feel as an angry youth is limited and lacks perspective, that's your reality when you are there. And I think that describes the spirit of the song better than saying it's about how stupid it is.

 
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Old 10-23-2015, 07:30 PM   #54
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Ate some pretty strong mushrooms with the wife the other night and at one point ended up listening to 'twilight to starlight' while laying on the floor in our living room. I must've heard this (side of the )album at least several hundred times by now but I'll be god-danged if it didn't just encompass my world and vibrantly exhume the sounds of emotions which were only truly relevant many years ago. At one point the lady and I both looked at each other and said "this is the most beautiful song ever written" .. I think it was 33 playing but it could've been Ruby. Fun night, our basement old lady neighbor knocked on our door later (a rare occurrence) and gave us a bag of potatoes cause she thought she bought too many. We made some mashed potatoes later on and ate them while watching the gift by Sam Raimi. For a moment we lost ourselves, wrapped up in the pleasures (and fleece blankets) of the world.

 
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Old 10-23-2015, 07:56 PM   #55
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when billy spoke about forgetting himself by being wrapped up in the pleasures of the world i don't think he was saying it was a positive thing

that is to say i'm totally jealous of your experience

 
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Old 10-24-2015, 09:37 PM   #56
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I've always thought that the narrator in 33 was a bit uptight and over analytical about everything. At times I would relate and feel the need to blame or suggested my solitude, but as my feelings for the song evolved I've always felt that when the narrator 'lost themselves for a moment wrapped up in the pleasures of the world' it was that moment that the true beauty and happiness prevails. That little bridge is so unlike everything thing else in the song and almost creates a healthy balance to the pessimistic views of the other lyrics - as amazing as they are. So I hear it as a positive, an escape from the meandering lameness that is so easy to wallow in but hey, its easier to lose yourself for a moment - why not make the moment last longer? Blah.

Also it was a pretty stellar experience but a few hours later I had to spend about 20 minutes in my darkened bathroom dealing with my bowels saying goodbye to several ounces of turmeric and ginger juice. Fun.

 
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Old 10-29-2015, 07:34 PM   #57
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http://wxrt.cbslocal.com/2015/10/29/...inite-sadness/

 
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