D'arcy's first interview in 20 years with Alternative Nation is up!.

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by WeilandFan

I wouldn't be shocked if she was reported on Facebook by the minions. Her interview and subsequent comments are banned on SP groups on FB, and my interview made them officially ban AN links on a couple SP FB groups lol.

Lol I always find this very surprising. I just don't see the sense of banning and deleting any mention of a Smashing Pumpkins article in Smashing Pumpkins fan groups. What could possibly be the sense of that? Is the idea that they're going to pull a Monte and weasel into Billy's circle if they run a staunchly pro Billy Corgan group? Seems absurd.

[redbreegull]

Billy Corgan is a narcissist and seeks to squash criticism because it hurts his pride. There's no higher logic to it.

[fuzzyroes]

Billy Corgan has nothing to do with the moderation of those groups. They're all independently run.

[Forgotten Child]

Originally Posted by Corgan's Bluff

The way Billy Corgan has treated her was disgusting. He could have confirmed himself easily about D’arcy’s abilities by meeting her. Which he showed no interest in the one and a half year they talked with each other.
I feel really sorry for her haters, but I really can’t blame D’arcy for not to be willing to be part of such a “reunion” again.

And how are you so sure about that?

Even according to the texts Darcy shared that's not true, Billy tells her she has a bus available for her to come and go whenever she wants. She basically ignores it and comments on something else.

[fuzzyroes]

Billy mentioned the bus in regards to her partaking in the tour in a Steven Adler role.

[WeilandFan]

Originally Posted by Forgotten Child

It is a brand new page, it's unlikely that it's known to the public, thus I doubt the deactivation stuff she's talking about has anything to do with someone else - by the way, have you reported any fake profile / page on Facebook before? It takes ages for a response and if there's no illegal stuff on it the chances are that Facebook will keep the page up.

I was totally on her side until she posted all the print screen. It back fired on her and she knows that. Even tho I still think the whole reunion conversation was bad managed, I totally understand why Billy/band were not feeling confident about Darcy being able to do it - she's been out of the show business for the last 20 years, she wasn't well when she left the band in 1999 and the few news we've got about her after that was basically to do with her problems with drugs and alcohol.

I feel really sorry for her, but I really can't blame anyone else for her not being part of this once again.

Having reservations is totally understandable, but why not get in a room and find out for sure? That's my biggest issue, a real attempt was never even made to see if it could have worked.

Billy also not giving any specific responses to D'arcy's points does not help in understanding his rationale, so all we have to go by are her extensive description of her take on things, and a press release and a few vague comments from Billy. From what it seems, he got cold feet, called Live Nation to see if they'd still give them the money without her, and when they said yes he kicked her to the curb and gave her a token Adler guest idea as she was no longer necessary for the massive payday.

[WeilandFan]

Originally Posted by Forgotten Child

And how are you so sure about that?

Even according to the texts Darcy shared that's not true, Billy tells her she has a bus available for her to come and go whenever she wants. She basically ignores it and comments on something else.

The bus was part of the the Steven Adler guest role idea from Billy. D'arcy claims Billy would not even give a financial offer in regards to that. This was also after she had some sort of contract proposal to return to the band as the full time bassist a couple of months prior that was later pulled.

[fuzzyroes]

That's the one thing that I can't make sense of. They easily could have flew her out, have something of an audition and see what kind of shape her playing was in and then go from there.

Part of me thinks that Billy wasn't ever seriously considering her, but that certainly doesn't seem to be how it went in regards to Billy texting D'arcy for years.

[WeilandFan]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

That's the one thing that I can't make sense of. They easily could have flew her out, have something of an audition and see what kind of shape her playing was in and then go from there.

Part of me thinks that Billy wasn't ever seriously considering her, but that certainly doesn't seem to be how it went in regards to Billy texting D'arcy for years.

I think that's what eats D'arcy up, she feels like she was used and strung along by Billy to drum up interest in a high paying tour, when for the last two years she was led to believe she would be back in the band, and when push came to shove he just wanted her in the Adler role to help sell the tour without really reuniting with her.

I don't see why they didn't at least try to get in a room. The original Van Halen lineup tried secretly in 2000 and 2001 and it didn't work at the time, but at least they gave it the college try. Soundgarden secretly met a few times in 2009 before announcing a single show in April 2010. After that went well, they booked two more shows for August 2010. Then after that went well, they booked a North American tour and started recording an album. The Pumpkins should have gone that route, one step at a time to see what would work. The fear probably was that if D'arcy even played one full show with them to start out, if she left after it would hurt potential future paydays.

[WeilandFan]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

Lol I always find this very surprising. I just don't see the sense of banning and deleting any mention of a Smashing Pumpkins article in Smashing Pumpkins fan groups. What could possibly be the sense of that? Is the idea that they're going to pull a Monte and weasel into Billy's circle if they run a staunchly pro Billy Corgan group? Seems absurd.

It's ludicrous, in a Smashing Pumpkins group, they are censoring comments from 1/4 of the real band. While this place gets way over the top anti-Billy and I do not agree with everything said here, nothing Billy says or does is censored here.

[Corgan's Bluff]

Originally Posted by Forgotten Child

And how are you so sure about that?

Even according to the texts Darcy shared that's not true, Billy tells her she has a bus available for her to come and go whenever she wants. She basically ignores it and comments on something else.

The bus of mercy, for a few bucks with t-shirt merchandise...

[Forgotten Child]

Originally Posted by WeilandFan

The bus was part of the the Steven Adler guest role idea from Billy. D'arcy claims Billy would not even give a financial offer in regards to that. This was also after she had some sort of contract proposal to return to the band as the full time bassist a couple of months prior that was later pulled.

Yes, but that shows that Billy was also willing to have her back in the band. I think it's fair to say Billy was the one who really needed the reunion to work the best way possible, for financial and/or reputation reasons.

He was not sure if she was able to be a full-time member and we don't actually know what happened during that 1 year and a half to make the band take that decision. Would you just give her a full-time position if there were signs that something was wrong? I totally see Darcy's point here, she was feeling like Billy wanted her to be involved so he could sell it as a reunion, but is that a bad thing? I mean, if he genuinely believed that that was also the best thing for her due to the stress caused by the tour and taking in consideration she hasn't played that kind of show for the last 20 years...? besides, the band say they invited her to reunite with them but she refused for whatever reason. Honestly, we don't know if they invited her or not, we can only speculate (unless Billy shared texts showing he did in fact invite her, we know it won't happen).

[Corgan's Bluff]

If Billy had wanted D'arcy back in the band, he had met her before any ambitious tour plans.

Originally Posted by WeilandFan

It's ludicrous, in a Smashing Pumpkins group, they are censoring comments from 1/4 of the real band. While this place gets way over the top anti-Billy and I do not agree with everything said here, nothing Billy says or does is censored here.

I got even banned from the biggest Smashing Pumpkins Facebook fangroup after two discussions on their site last summer. Not for rude words!
One of them about Alternative Nation, where some people already tried to stop other members to post AN articles...

They are all infiltrated with some of those hardcore sad machines, who try to attack everyone, who is criticizing Corgan.
And they even hang around now on a turkish Darcy Wretzky FB-fansite like a pest:
"Lori Creasman
blastecho.com is total bs! now banned from Sad Machines.

don't believe what you hear... no one will know until the last song is sung and the last dance. I hope everyone just self destructs over this, b/c I'm not. I will be there no matter what. Where is your faith? Just stfu about it already..."
(On someone, who posted this D'arcy article on their site:
http://blastecho.com/exclusive-darcy...pkins-reunion/)

[Forgotten Child]

Originally Posted by Corgan's Bluff

If Billy had wanted D'arcy back in the band, he had met her before any ambitious tour plans.

Maybe he tried and it didn't happen. And that's how he came up with the Steven Adler plan. Just speculating here.

We know that with James and Jimmy involved, Darcy not being there wouldn't stop this tour to happen - mainly because they were never sure she was able to. I understand people being unhappy with them playing under the pumpkins name without Darcy, but this is happening since 1999. Or 1997, when Jimmy wasn't there for a few years.

[Corgan's Bluff]

If Corgan had tried it, he had said so. He refused to give any concrete statement even at the New York Times interview.
You can't talk with someone one and a half year about a reunion to then come out with an ambitious tour plan and just a Steven Adler role.

[fuzzyroes]

Honestly, I wish Billy would've just rolled out the new music with Jimmy and got on with it.

Yes, it's exciting to have James involved but if it means having to put everything on hold in order to do a sell-out oldies tour, then I really could have done without him.

The only way an oldies tour would excite me is if it was the original lineup. James on board with Jack Bates and Jeff Shroeder is only moderately cool

[Forgotten Child]

Originally Posted by Corgan's Bluff

If Corgan had tried it, he had said so. He refused to give any concrete statement even at the New York Times interview.
You can't talk with someone one and a half year about a reunion to then come out with an ambitious tour plan and just a Steven Adler role.

He did tho, I think you missed it:

"For despite reports, Ms. Wretzky has repeatedly been invited out to play with the group, participate in demo sessions, or at the very least, meet face-to-face, and in each and every instance she always deferred. We wish her all the best, and look forward to reconnecting with you all very soon."

[WeilandFan]

Forgotten Child,

I remember that statement (I actually think it's what prompted D'arcy to do the interview with me, we did it shortly after that came out and it pissed her off), but Billy has offered zero specific examples. I would really love to hear Billy's side, but he has offered nothing outside of that statement and telling the New York Times that D'arcy burned the bridge forever.

D'arcy literally posted their texts and offered in-depth descriptions of their conversations. She's even continued to converse with people who side with Billy in the Alternative Nation comments section. If Billy could come up with examples of offering to meet with D'arcy in person, I'd be very happy to listen to and understand his side of this, but he hasn't offered anything. D'arcy told a specific story about inviting Billy and his family to come out to her house.

Also if Billy thought something was wrong, meet in person to know for sure. If he'd met with her and it didn't go well then he could have said, "I met with D'arcy, and as much as it saddened me, I didn't think she was ready to tour." Or maybe it would have gone great?

[Corgan's Bluff]

Originally Posted by Forgotten Child

He did tho, I think you missed it:

I think you missed this:





If you read the text documents shown, you can see, she even hadn’t been informed about the studio session last January.

Corgan could have easily said any concrete statement about D’arcy having not shown up to any invitation at the NYT interview.
They did just a vague comment to respond to several music magazines asking after the published text messages.

[Forgotten Child]

But that message was from when things were already happening and we don't know what happened before that. Maybe by that point they had realized she wasn't able to be there 100% of the time and were trying to have her on the tour, free to come and go (which would be good for both band and Darcy). As the plan goes, they want to do a world tour, so the American tour would help her to get back into touring and playing with the band again, to later on become the only bassist.

[Corgan's Bluff]

Corgan clearly messaged the long US tour to be total stress.
To be proving, if they had a chance at all later to tour the world:

[Forgotten Child]

By the way, he was keeping her informed as we can see

[Corgan's Bluff]

He kept D'arcy some kind of informed, after she had found out herself, that they were recording at all!

[Forgotten Child]

They were still talking by then, friendly talking, she even showed some enthusiasm when he informed her about Jack Bates.

What I really think happened was Darcy wanted to be there and Billy wanted her to be there. She wasn't able to, and she knew she wasn't able to and even tried to push Billy's buttons, Billy realized that it was too much for her to handle at once and offered her a small role (notice, he was still open to have her playing a longer setlist "as long as vibe is right and people are smiling"). She then realized they wouldn't stop the reunion because of her, took offense with the small role offer, got frustrated with James staying on Billy's side and felt she wasn't as important as the other 3 original members. That's when she decided to blow everything up.

[Corgan's Bluff]

You can’t necessary read emotions in text messages. I’m sure she was wondering to hear of a Jack Bates now being told to be involved too.
After already having not been informed about the recordings she must have truly felt pissed off. Which she then showed in her last part of these text messages.

There is no doubt that D’arcy wanted to be involved 100%.
But there is doubt, as Billy Corgan handled the whole situation, if he wanted her for more than showing up as a guest.

D’arcy didn’t blow things up, she said, she wouldn’t be involved.
Jack Bates would be the tour player. Which was only many months later officially confirmed.

[FoolofaTook]

I think you meant to say "which was officially confirmed many months later."

your welcome

[Forgotten Child]

Originally Posted by Corgan's Bluff

You can’t necessary read emotions in text messages. I’m sure she was wondering to hear of a Jack Bates now being told to be involved too.
After already having not been informed about the recordings she must have truly felt pissed off. Which she then showed in her last part of these text messages.

There is no doubt that D’arcy wanted to be involved 100%.
But there is doubt, as Billy Corgan handled the whole situation, if he wanted her for more than showing up as a guest.

D’arcy didn’t blow things up, she said, she wouldn’t be involved.
Jack Bates would be the tour player. Which was many months later officially confirmed.

I think it's very clear. But she also commented on that topic on the AN comment section. She said she was excited cause she is a fan.

I'm not saying Billy and the band did everything right. I also think they should've talked straight, black and white, no space for misinterpretation from the moment they realized she couldn't handle it. But honestly, I think the reaction would been the same.

I don't blame Darcy for feeling left out, even tho everything she says makes me believe she wouldn't be there regardless. I also don't blame Billy for not being 100% confident she was capable to do it all again.

It's a sad situation and I hope they can fix it once again.

[fuzzyroes]

Sometimes the excitement of such ventures is due to the uncertainty. The original lineup is the selling point. It sucks to have that asterisk on the tour, especially since they already returned with a partial lineup only 10 years earlier.

If they never came back in 2007 and now returned with Iha, Chamberlin and Corgan then I think everyone would be happy and excited. But what are they gonna do? every 10 years add an additional member until the bands finally reunited?

It sorta reminds me of when Axl was touring with Guns N Roses. They were doing their thing and then Duff rejoined for a tour and it didn't really move the needle much. It was cool for fans to seen an original member back in the new group, but it didn't create too much of a buzz.

[Corgan's Bluff]

Originally Posted by Forgotten Child

I think it's very clear. But she also commented on that topic on the AN comment section. She said she was excited cause she is a fan.

I'm not saying Billy and the band did everything right. I also think they should've talked straight, black and white, no space for misinterpretation from the moment they realized she couldn't handle it. But honestly, I think the reaction would been the same.

I don't blame Darcy for feeling left out, even tho everything she says makes me believe she wouldn't be there regardless. I also don't blame Billy for not being 100% confident she was capable to do it all again.

It's a sad situation and I hope they can fix it once again.

It's NOT clear how Corgan introduced Jack Bates to D'arcy from the published text messages. In which way he exactly should be involved.
Obviously she hadn't known before that he had been on tour with the Pumpkins as their bass player in 2015. She was excited about a Jack White, not Jack Bates, whom she didn't know.

It's not clear from the then following text message a day later, why she had got that angry. Maybe she had informed herself more about Jack Bates.
But honestly, Corgan behaved like a total asshole with his last, t-shirt comment:
"...But if you don’t want to be on a t-shirt then the kids are happy to buy something else"

The way he treated D'arcy they can't fix it the next twenty years.

[FoolofaTook]

if darcy came back they still would have sucked ass