Which solos on Mellon Collie are Ihas?

[Shallowed]

Originally Posted by Ihaguitar

It's a fucking guitar shape.

An incredibly ugly one, at that.

[houseofglass11]

Jagstang = cool
Corgan Reverend Custom = way fkn uglier than the jag

[houseofglass11]

Ok.

[paranoid]

Originally Posted by johncg

Kurt was a brilliant guitar player. GE Smith commented on how great he was while Nirvana performed on SNL. GE Smith is one the greatest, most successful professional guitarists of the last 30 years or so. So he knows what he’s talking about.

I would honestly argue that Kurt is a MUCH better guitarist than Billy. The only criterion by which Billy surpasses is him is that he plays more notes. But judging by his “Solara” performance on Jimmy Fallon he can’t not even palm mute an E power chord in tune. That is sad and pathetic.

I don’t judge a musician by how many notes they play. I judge them on how good the notes they do play sound, and whether they have a unique and powerful voice. Kurt always sounded good and solid. And he had a much better touch and feel for the guitar. AND he had a much stronger voice in the instrument. So in my book he’s better.

It’s generally a thing among professional musicians in NYC, LA, or Nashville to be very skeptical of a guy who talks a lot about gear. If you’re a pro you’re just expected to have your sound together and not waste time talking about it. It’s way more productive to talk with other musicians about actual music. I’ve talked to world class musicians who don’t know how many watts their amp head is. It doesn’t matter. Music matters.

I don’t have any comments about the guys from Tool or Dream Theater. I’m sure they’re great. Good for them. Mark Giulianna is arguably the most respected jazz drummer in NYC right now and he literally doesn’t care what kit he plays on live. He plays whatever is there and makes it sound great. That mentality is the sign of a real pro, not the fussing and obsessing about gear. Just being confident that you can make it work.

I’m sure I have you fuming at me now. I am sorry for that. I hope you have a nice night.

I'm going to address your "GE smith" logic-- Zach Wylde is also one of the most successful pro guitarists of the past 30 years, probably more so than GE, and he said Kurt can't play for shit. So has Joe Bonnamassa, etc etc.. point? everyone has their own opinions and their pro level doesn't change their opinions from one person to the next. Also, there are many folks that would argue the above mentioned guitarists suck. I for one think Bonnamassa is a hack. who fucking cares.

Palm muting a string out of tune? wtf? If the string is in or out of tune, it's in or out of tune. Where the palm is placed has no bearing on tuning, unless it's a shit guitar. Even so, that's a weak point of criteria on a guitarist's ability to play. J Mascis didn't even know what palm muting was until a couple of years ago.. how do I know? I know the guy.

Musicians of all walks of life talk about everything related to their craft, and yeah gear is a part of that. Anyone that is skeptical of a guy that talks about gear is probably some douche who knows nothing about what goes into their own craft. I myself don't like to talk about gear because I find it boring, BUT when asked a question that's not pointless and a waste of a conversation, I do know what I'm talking about.

Billy play's a lot of notes, and you equate that to him not knowing how good his sound is? IMO, every note he plays means something.. I think the solo's in Soma, Aeroplane, Starla, Here is No Why are good examples.. there's melodic build ups, and shred moments that articulate the emotion of the song he's writing. He's not just noodling around, and just because he can play fast doesn't mean he's just "noodling."

But this is fucking dumb. comparing the two guitarists is like apples and oranges, they come from completely different backgrounds and schools of thought.. saying one is better than the other is a useless exercise and honestly this argument sounds like it comes from one of these dudes that will come up to me after a show and try to impress me with what little they might know about theory, gear, etc.. and then try to support their theory on a casual relationship they have with a 'pro.' I doubt you're that kind of douche, but as far as this argument goes, stop it.

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

Billy Corgan surpasses Cobain at every guitar criterion imaginable

I dunno about that. When's the last time that Billy has done anything remotely interesting with the guitar? A song or 2 with Zwan? A few cool moments on Zeitgeist. That's not a very good resume over the past 20 years.

[Shadaloo]

Kurt could jam, he could play and write just fine. But nothing he ever put out spoke to me in quite the way Bill's solos and leads did. IMO Bill was a way better writer and much more technically skilled player, and Kurt generally wrote simple and direct stuff but that doesn't mean he sucked or anything.

Define 'good' - it's apples and oranges as far as I'm concerned. No comparison to be made. And gear's beside the point. Neither of them used it as any kind of crutch.

[T&T]

doing the "dead guy" vs "not dead guy" olympics is pretty lame. it's generally classless to engage in those conversations and most people are smart enough not to. Of course some big somebody is gonna say kurt was a guitar god, what's he got to lose?

knowing gear and being gear focused are two different things. billy isn't just a gear snob that's done nothing pursuing the perfect tone. lace sensors in a start into an IC chip muff with a kt88 marshall 800... that shit rocks. playing dumb loud with great gear is a treat. playing cranked solid state peavey amps just makes everyones ears bleed in a bad way.

[paranoid]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

I dunno about that. When's the last time that Billy has done anything remotely interesting with the guitar? A song or 2 with Zwan? A few cool moments on Zeitgeist. That's not a very good resume over the past 20 years.

well seeing as kurt's dead and hasn't played in over 20 years.. let's put his first 3 records against corgan's first 3 records.

see how stupid this is? i imagine you don't

[Shallowed]

Originally Posted by houseofglass11

Jagstang = cool
Corgan Reverend Custom = way fkn uglier than the jag

They're both ugly as hell

[Zer0 Hour]

Kurt was a great musician and overall more iconic than Billy but if we're talking guitar playing ability on a purely technical level, it's not even close... Billy surpasses him easily. If it wasn't for Billy's ego, combative nature, and his periodic refusal to use lengthy solos in his songs, he probably would be listed among the greatest guitarists of all time. His ability is clearly there. He just... doesn't use it enough for whatever reason. It frustrates me to a degree because I play the guitar but I don't have that kind of talent. But if I did, and I was as successful as he's been, I'd like to think that I would use it as much as I could. I also feel like there are some people out there who maybe have never heard Starla or Hummer and don't realize just how fucking good he can be. Even when people discuss the best guitarists of the grunge/alternative era, guys like Jerry Cantrell, Kim Thayil and Dean DeLeo seem to get more respect for their abilities than him. But he's certainly on their level when he tries.

[fluxequalsrad]

Originally Posted by paranoid

Palm muting a string out of tune? wtf? If the string is in or out of tune, it's in or out of tune. Where the palm is placed has no bearing on tuning, unless it's a shit guitar. Even so, that's a weak point of criteria on a guitarist's ability to play. J Mascis didn't even know what palm muting was until a couple of years ago.. how do I know? I know the guy.

You can bend the string out of pitch by palm muting too hard. It is very easy to do. J Mascis is also obviously being cheeky about the whole not knowing about palm muting thing... didn't he mention that in the Guitar Moves video he did with Matt Sweeney?

[BurtSampson]

Not every 90s guitarist can be Art Alexakis....






lol

[FoolofaTook]

kurt wasn't able to make it into the melvins.

neither could b0lly, if he tried.

[Ihaguitar]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

I dunno about that. When's the last time that Billy has done anything remotely interesting with the guitar? A song or 2 with Zwan? A few cool moments on Zeitgeist. That's not a very good resume over the past 20 years.

Some of his solos on Siamese Dream are pretty amazing. He's good at bending notes.

[Ihaguitar]

Originally Posted by Zer0 Hour

Kurt was a great musician and overall more iconic than Billy but if we're talking guitar playing ability on a purely technical level, it's not even close... Billy surpasses him easily. If it wasn't for Billy's ego, combative nature, and his periodic refusal to use lengthy solos in his songs, he probably would be listed among the greatest guitarists of all time. His ability is clearly there. He just... doesn't use it enough for whatever reason. It frustrates me to a degree because I play the guitar but I don't have that kind of talent. But if I did, and I was as successful as he's been, I'd like to think that I would use it as much as I could. I also feel like there are some people out there who maybe have never heard Starla or Hummer and don't realize just how fucking good he can be. Even when people discuss the best guitarists of the grunge/alternative era, guys like Jerry Cantrell, Kim Thayil and Dean DeLeo seem to get more respect for their abilities than him. But he's certainly on their level when he tries.

I remember Billy saying in an interview in the mid-nineties that only guitarists get guitar solos. I think he's plain wrong there but I guess he still believes it.

[paranoid]

Originally Posted by fluxequalsrad

You can bend the string out of pitch by palm muting too hard. It is very easy to do. J Mascis is also obviously being cheeky about the whole not knowing about palm muting thing... didn't he mention that in the Guitar Moves video he did with Matt Sweeney?

Dunno, never saw the video.

In 12 years of teaching, I’ve never witnessed anyone palm mute so hard they make it go out of tune. The issues I see people run into with that— palm muting so hard no sound comes out.

[DaveKShape]

Originally Posted by johncg

A name drop is when you know someone personally and bring them up in conversation to make yourself look cool.

Just so you know

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images...ar_400x400.jpg

[Zer0 Hour]

Originally Posted by Ihaguitar

I remember Billy saying in an interview in the mid-nineties that only guitarists get guitar solos. I think he's plain wrong there but I guess he still believes it.

Weird that he thinks that way, especially since he played so many great solos on Gish, Siamese Dream and Pisces.

[FoolofaTook]

I don't understand. Can pianists get guitar solos? Trombonists? Cellists?

[Zer0 Hour]

Originally Posted by FoolofaTook

I don't understand. Can pianists get guitar solos? Trombonists? Cellists?

I think it means that only the "guitarist" in the band (i.e. not the singer/guitarist) should play the solo. I guess that's why he let James play a lot of the solos from Mellon Collie forward. But now I guess he doesn't want him to do that anymore either since he said on Howard that they are "done" with guitar solos.

[FoolofaTook]

But James sings too.

[reprise85]

I thought he meant only guitarists "really understand" guitar solos by saying "only guitarists get guitar solos"

[Zer0 Hour]

Originally Posted by FoolofaTook

But James sings too.

I mean... kind of...

[FoolofaTook]

He coos and sighs.

[fluxequalsrad]

Originally Posted by Zer0 Hour

I think it means that only the "guitarist" in the band (i.e. not the singer/guitarist) should play the solo. I guess that's why he let James play a lot of the solos from Mellon Collie forward. But now I guess he doesn't want him to do that anymore either since he said on Howard that they are "done" with guitar solos.

I think Billy always laid it out in interviews that they weren't into solos as a kind of defence mechanism against being labeled as a wanking hair metal dude or hendrix wannabe. Solos were not 'cool' in the early 90's amongst his peers - whoever you label that to be.

Of course, Billy is gaslighting you and they have solos flying in all over the place up until Adore. During the first 3 album era, I actually can't think of a bad or misplaced one off hand. (Please chime in if you can think of one). So many of those solos are really short and just buzz the tower: "Frail and Bedazzled" has a quick one that they probably pulled out of their ass but it rips. "Rocket" employs the same strategy and just keeps getting better as they keep doing it. "Snail" live was eventually just a showcase of the nonsense soloing that they could get away with so effortlessly (see Lost Tapes 'Snail').

Its kind of a shame they don't get recognized for it as much given that J. Mascis can live quite comfortably being a mediocre lead player compared to Billy. Fight me.

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by Zer0 Hour

I mean... kind of...

i like you

[Zer0 Hour]

Originally Posted by reprise85

i like you

You're not so bad yourself.