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Old 05-20-2015, 02:54 PM   #181
Eulogy
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Mooney I don't have time to teach a remedial class on consent and sex. Perhaps you should look into one...?

If you are having sex with someone and they don't exactly say no, but her body language and whimpering indicate fear and powerlessness and you say "take off your clothes" but then end up forcibly ripping them instead

Then uh. That is obviously rape?

????????

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 03:06 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Eulogy View Post
Mooney I don't have time to teach a remedial class on consent and sex. Perhaps you should look into one...?

If you are having sex with someone and they don't exactly say no, but her body language and whimpering indicate fear and powerlessness and you say "take off your clothes" but then end up forcibly ripping them instead

Then uh. That is obviously rape?

????????
i didn't think it was rape because i felt she made a choice to go through with it to further her agenda. reluctantly, albeit, but she did start to remove her own clothes before ramsay ripped them off. the crying--but not resisting--during the act said to me that she may be regretting that choice.

...and apparently the writer of the episode comfirms that:

"This isnít a timid little girl walking into a wedding night with Joffrey. This is a hardened woman making a choice, and she sees this as the way to get back her homeland."

Bryan Cogman

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 03:10 PM   #183
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i sincerely hope you're trolling

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 03:11 PM   #184
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but if some guy did that to a woman i know in real life i would want to chops his balls off.
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Old 05-20-2015, 03:12 PM   #185
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i sincerely hope you're trolling
the writer and producer of the show said she chose to have sex with him.

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 03:14 PM   #186
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That doesn't negate the fact that it was rape, mooney

What a strange hill to try to die on

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 03:15 PM   #187
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And you're still conflating the wedding with the sex which is also bizarre.

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 03:23 PM   #188
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That doesn't negate the fact that it was rape, mooney
how does the fact that the writer said she chose to have sex with him not negate rape?

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 03:37 PM   #189
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Perhaps the writer doesn't understand rape?

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 03:38 PM   #190
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He followed that up with

"The choice I was referring to was Sansa's choice to marry Ramsay and walk into that room with him. She feels marrying him is a vital step in reclaiming her Homeland."

As if it matters.

Gotta admit when you're wrong sometimes.

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 03:46 PM   #191
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i think it wasn't really rape because it's a tv show.


i've just won this argument.

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 04:04 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by Eulogy View Post
He followed that up with

"The choice I was referring to was Sansa's choice to marry Ramsay and walk into that room with him. She feels marrying him is a vital step in reclaiming her Homeland."

As if it matters.

Gotta admit when you're wrong sometimes.
you admitting you're wrong, or telling me i need to? can't tell.

i'm sure we all agree that it all comes down to consent. the only reason i didn't think it was rape was because i felt the character was choosing to have sex. maybe she wasn't. not really going to argue about the thought process of a fictional character.

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 04:10 PM   #193
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A woman with a knife to her throat might be choosing to have sex too

It's not consensual sex

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 05:13 PM   #194
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teenage girls in arranged/forced marriages can't give consent. it's an even more sever form of statutory rape.

if 14 year old girl 'doesn't say no' to sex with a 30 year old man, is that not rape?

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 05:19 PM   #195
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teenage girls in arranged/forced marriages can't give consent. it's an even more sever form of statutory rape.

if 14 year old girl 'doesn't say no' to sex with a 30 year old man, is that not rape?
probably not in westeros.

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 05:22 PM   #196
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i'll admit this is absolutely rape in modern america and should be across the entire planet.

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 05:31 PM   #197
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I can understand how casual fans of the TV Series are regularly shocked by what happens. but there's also a lot of fans of the books who entertain fantasies of happy endings for the characters. You'd think they would know better after plowing through thousands of pages of murder and rape. The whole point of Game of Thrones is that there are no happy endings!!!

The John Snow Dany shippers are probably the only IMO that might get their ending. but something tells me it still wouldn't be happy
from what ive seen the ppl who are outraged by sansas rape fall into a few camps and none of them are surprised

1) ppl who feel like rape and brutality are sensational at this point and never have a reason and they just kind of move on. these ppl didnt know what show they were watching

2) ppl who read the books and are thinking sansa is going to be tortured like jeyne poole is in the books thus ruining sansas character

3) ppl who dont watch the show that just have the need to be outraged

4) ppl who feel sansas rape being GoTs jump the shark moment. this season is going backwsrds tbh its really irritating to come this far with sansa, save her from one sadist and give her to another who is probably worse than joffrey really. this kinda ties back into 1 i guess

fans of the book also complain of brutality fatigue by the fourth and fifth books and thats now coming into the tv audience

Last edited by Trotskilicious : 05-20-2015 at 05:42 PM.

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 05:33 PM   #198
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i dunno, to me it seems that in that universe marriage/consummation go hand in hand. so once she choose to marry a psychopath, she knew exactly what to expect on the wedding night (except perhaps having a spectator.) If she changed her mind and conveyed to him she didn't want to consummate, and he continued then that would be rape.

an argument i guess would be that she felt threatened to the point where she feared harm if she refused him. that's rape.
she didbt choose anything, do you even know what is going on in the show/

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 05:39 PM   #199
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like when has a woman chose who to marry in the history of game of fucking thrones, sansa has been betrothed/married three times already and not one of them was by her own agency. ironically the reason shes now victimized by ramsey is because tyrion DIDNT rape her on their wedding nite which in this setting is when the marriage is consumated and irrevvocable

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 05:42 PM   #200
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she didbt choose anything, do you even know what is going on in the show/
i was distracted for parts of the last two episodes. i asked for clarification on plot points multiple time and all i got was "OMG ARE YOU FOR REALZ" "uBtrollin" "JESUS CHRIST"

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 05:42 PM   #201
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I don't think the show is going downhill at all. The one criticism I have this season is that it at least feels like too many story lines. I would rather have seen them leave out the Jaime Lannister adventure storyline. I get that it's supposed to parallel Brienne's trek to Sansa, but both just feel like too much. I'd rather see them do what they've done with Bran and just leave them out.

If people can watch 5 seasons of Walking Dead I think they can handle GoT brutality.

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 05:43 PM   #202
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i want to see brienne take winterfell by herself and decapitate ramsey, make it aaallll worthwhile

brienne is the bes

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 05:45 PM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooney View Post
i was distracted for parts of the last two episodes. i asked for clarification on plot points multiple time and all i got was "OMG ARE YOU FOR REALZ" "uBtrollin" "JESUS CHRIST"
well like i said already, women in GoT are leverage for politics just like the real middle ages. they have little agency, though through machiavellian manouvering like cersei or margery they can have power

the creator saying she made a choice is full of shit if he expects us to believe that if she put her foot down with littlefinger, hed be like ok cool you dont have to marry ramsey

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 05:46 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by Trotskilicious View Post
i want to see brienne take winterfell by herself and decapitate ramsey, make it aaallll worthwhile

brienne is the bes
her role in Star Wars better be really fucking good!

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 05:49 PM   #205
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i like jamies storyline because i love him and bronn

but lets talk about the time jamie, right when we start to really like him, rapes cersei at the foot of their freshly dead firstborn

what was the point of that? i think ppl are thinking that happens with sansa

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 05:50 PM   #206
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her role in Star Wars better be really fucking good!
i think shes a darth

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 06:03 PM   #207
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she should be she hulk

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 06:36 PM   #208
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i think shes a darth
she plays a captain of the First Order stormtroopers. I don't think she's a sith.

 
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Old 05-20-2015, 06:44 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trotskilicious View Post
i like jamies storyline because i love him and bronn

but lets talk about the time jamie, right when we start to really like him, rapes cersei at the foot of their freshly dead firstborn

what was the point of that? i think ppl are thinking that happens with sansa
reminds me of old Bond movies where women said no and Bond just keeps forcing himself on them and then hollywood sex scene

LIke when Roger Moore tricks a teenage virgin Jane Seymour into having sex with him.

And then in the documentary Roger Moore says it was all in the fun of being James Bond.

starts at 7:00 in


 
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Old 05-20-2015, 06:52 PM   #210
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this is a good breakdown from a feminist perspective of issues with the GoT storylines this season


http://skepchick.org/2015/05/why-las...was-the-worst/

Last edited by MyOneAndOnly : 05-20-2015 at 08:00 PM.

 
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