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Old 06-11-2014, 04:18 PM   #1
CrabbMan
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Default There should be magnet linked torrents on spfc.org to demos, etc.

All the stuff that's not on archive.org. Or if spfc.org can't host magnet links they should be here. Like as a replacement to the sphub. Or is that still around?

 
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:48 AM   #2
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the hub is no longer around.

 
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:02 PM   #3
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There are far too many 13 editions of the demos floating around instead of the originals. It would be good to recirculate all the original rips/leaks

 
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Old 06-12-2014, 08:21 PM   #4
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I mean, I would totally be a longterm seeder. I don't know if it would easier to have one big torrent or a bunch of individual ones for each demo/recording session/mixtape , but either way it would be nice to have some sort of pseudo-official torrents of what the Pumpkins trading community knows to be the best circulating source.

 
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Old 06-13-2014, 04:07 AM   #5
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Does anyone have the original files for Adore II and QAOS, as they were leaked here a few years ago?

 
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Old 06-13-2014, 04:25 AM   #6
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i believe i do.

 
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Old 06-13-2014, 04:27 AM   #7
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are torrents the way to go, or would something like megaupload also be a good option?

some of these demos can be found on zomb, but a lot of them have tracks that have been removed, because they're too close to what has been officially released. which is then of course not what we want.

 
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Old 06-13-2014, 04:35 AM   #8
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Torrents are better if we want them to be available indefinitely.

We certainly don't want versions with tracks cut out.

 
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Old 06-13-2014, 05:48 AM   #9
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Most of what's on zomb are 13 versions

 
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Old 06-13-2014, 06:36 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magikarp99 View Post
Torrents are better if we want them to be available indefinitely.
torrents can die too, no?
dunno.

and what "version" should we go for then?
pick the originally shared .shn files, if that's how a set was first shared, without any changes?
or get all these original sets, convert to flac, if necessary, and rename and tag the files in a uniform way, and then torrent those updated sets as the new "best source available"?

i've got machina II (q101 and virgin) straight from the original cd sets, by the way. that could be added too. (these are also available on what.)

 
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Old 06-13-2014, 07:07 AM   #11
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Check out Zappateers. They have everything like this except for Frank Zappa and they've got a damn perfect setup.

Just make separate torrents, - categorized by year/session/tour/whatever - for each of the "releases" we have

Easy

Ok, I don't know shit about the technical side of any of this, but it definitely seems the best way to go, imo.

 
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Old 06-13-2014, 11:41 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream View Post
torrents can die too, no?
dunno.
There is no perfect solution.

There are two ways a torrent can die:
  1. People don't seed it
  2. The tracker removes it
You can mitigate the second point by using lots of public trackers.
The first point will be a problem (see cessation of grandeur), but this could be mitigated by using a private tracker, but then you can only have one tracker, and not everyone will have access. The private tracker may also impose restrictions on their format and tags.

With a DDL site like Mega there is a single point of failure. Files may get removed due to a DMCA request, the hosting service may just remove them, or it may get shut down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream View Post
and what "version" should we go for then?
pick the originally shared .shn files, if that's how a set was first shared, without any changes?
or get all these original sets, convert to flac, if necessary, and rename and tag the files in a uniform way, and then torrent those updated sets as the new "best source available"?
We should either share the original files as they were released or leaked, or the same files converted to FLAC. I don't have any preference regarding tags.
We should aim to share the original unmodified audio. This means no noise reduction, perhaps even no track splitting. We don't want to end up in the same situation again where the only thing in active circulation are 13 editions.

I think the QAOS and Adore II demos are the most tricky files here, and is probably what we should base our decision on. They were released as WAVs with funny names, some of the releases were individual songs while some were entire tape sides as one file. I think all of that should be preserved as it is, but perhaps they should be transcoded to FLAC.

 
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magikarp99 View Post
I think the QAOS and Adore II demos are the most tricky files here, and is probably what we should base our decision on. They were released as WAVs with funny names, some of the releases were individual songs while some were entire tape sides as one file. I think all of that should be preserved as it is, but perhaps they should be transcoded to FLAC.
i don't see how splitting in tracks would be a problem: you don't lose any information. if you really want to, you can always join the different tracks again. although i wouldn't know why anyone would want to do that.

other option: provide a .cue file. then everyone who wants to burn with or split into different tracks, can quickly do it, without any extra effort.

i prefer separate tracks for the "standard" set though. unless it's agreed that everything is shared in its original form (.shn, huge .wav, etc.).

 
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Old 06-13-2014, 02:44 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magikarp99 View Post


We should either share the original files as they were released or leaked, or the same files converted to FLAC. I don't have any preference regarding tags.
We should aim to share the original unmodified audio. This means no noise reduction, perhaps even no track splitting. We don't want to end up in the same situation again where the only thing in active circulation are 13 editions.

I think the QAOS and Adore II demos are the most tricky files here, and is probably what we should base our decision on. They were released as WAVs with funny names, some of the releases were individual songs while some were entire tape sides as one file. I think all of that should be preserved as it is, but perhaps they should be transcoded to FLAC.

I think at least simple tracksplitting would be ok as long as everything is labeled/documented as it should be.

 
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Old 06-13-2014, 07:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream View Post
get all these original sets, convert to flac, if necessary, and rename and tag the files in a uniform way, and then torrent those updated sets as the new "best source available"

other option: provide a .cue file. then everyone who wants to burn with or split into different tracks, can quickly do it, without any extra effort.
I don't think there's any need to keep it to the original format or tagging. That something was released into circulation as a WAV, SHN, split or single files is only because that's what was best for it's time. There was totally a time when you'd download and burn to CD, and single files with cue sheets made sense then (do people still burn CDs?). But since the conversion to FLAC is lossless, there's no reason not to use some sensible consistent standard for naming and tagging. That way you don't need separate files for sharing and for your media library (as long as your media library software doesn't try to edit the tags).

Quote:
Originally Posted by warewolf95 View Post
Check out Zappateers. They have everything like this except for Frank Zappa and they've got a damn perfect setup.
That's some great community sharing, but sheesh they don't really have the same touch at coding for the web like spfc.org. That site is really beautifully done, and it would be nearly perfect if there were links to all the stuff that couldn't be hosted on archive.org.

As for the public/private tracker issue, while there are advantages to private trackers, I don't know that there are any existing ones that would be the right fit. You don't want it excluding any files or users (damn that what.cd is exclusive!). But ultimately we have to rely on there being enough participants of the Pumpkins trading community to keep the stuff seeded. Assuming archive.org can be there most live stuff, what.cd for rare official releases, how much could it be, 15-20GB?

 
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:47 PM   #16
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The format of the original leaked audio is only up to whoever leaked it in the first place. Sometimes the tags can be incorrect, such as song titles getting miscredited as other songs. Personally, I'd prefer if everything was in flac and all had the same standardised tagging.

 
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Old 06-14-2014, 01:54 AM   #17
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In that case we should take the original audio files:
  • Split them into tracks (without deleting any gaps)
  • Convert them to FLAC
  • Tag them appropriately

 
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Old 06-15-2014, 02:00 AM   #18
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Alright, well I guess there's nothing stopping me from trying to get started. Unless someone else is more enthusiastic about it. I suppose I should start by going through what I've got and listing it with checksums of the files to make sure they're the same as what anyone else has.

 
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Old 06-15-2014, 07:45 AM   #19
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What is going to be inclu ded in this? Are we going to limit it to pumpkins demos? What about the Psycho Tape and 666?

Anything else? Rough mixes? Premasters?

Last edited by magikarp99 : 06-15-2014 at 07:56 AM.

 
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Old 06-15-2014, 11:08 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magikarp99 View Post
Does anyone have the original files for Adore II and QAOS, as they were leaked here a few years ago?
i found them. i converted them to flac, so they're not the original files, but will also serve.

 
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Old 06-15-2014, 04:05 PM   #21
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Let me know when this is done, and I'll contribute and seed.

 
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Old 06-17-2014, 04:54 AM   #22
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So what I envisioned the purpose of the these torrents to be, and chime in if you think it should be different, is to have a single collection of all the significant Smashing Pumpkins recordings that cannot be hosted on archive.org, what.cd, or Zomb.

I suppose for the most part they will be torrents of full demos or studio sessions. But what about live shows that are for the most part listed on archive.org or Zomb, but have a missing track here or there because they were on an official release? Should we have torrents for each of these shows, or just a torrent or two dedicated to all the one-off songs that are part of some official release and aren't allowed on Zomb or archive.org. Honestly, I don't mind recreating some of the torrents from what.cd, but just the rare stuff, not the general releases. I actually don't know what's on what.cd specifically [since I lost my membership due to giving an invitation to an asswipe]. But the idea is to make these open and available torrents to anyone who is hardcore into the Pumpkins.

Now, assuming that you can have multiple torrents pointing to the
Things I'm wondering:
*How do we want to name & tag files, and how strict should this be?
*If a recording is already on Zomb or what, can we re-******* the same files on a different torrent without complication?

ah dammit there was more i was gonna try to say but i'm too drunk and it's too late.


My md5 list: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...1/sp.demos.md5

 
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Old 06-17-2014, 05:20 AM   #23
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I haven't checked the MD5 sums against what I have at the moment. Perhaps FFPs would be better? MD5s will vary even with two FLACs if the compression level or tags are different, even if the music content is the same.

I see in your list though that at the moment some of yours are 13 editions, so will definitely need replacing, I have the originals I think:
Reel Time Sessions
MCIS Demos I

Pisces Iscariot and Friends will need to be split, as those are album tracks at the moment.

If we are distributing 666 audio, then we should make sure to use the original track from the 666 DVD. That DVD contains both an original and a remastered audio track. It is probably worth just re-transcoding from the original DVD to make sure it is done correctly too.

 
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Old 06-17-2014, 05:55 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrabbMan View Post
But what about live shows that are for the most part listed on archive.org or Zomb, but have a missing track here or there because they were on an official release? Should we have torrents for each of these shows, or just a torrent or two dedicated to all the one-off songs that are part of some official release and aren't allowed on Zomb or archive.org
Could always just in clude an archive.org link to the "rest of the show"

 
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Old 06-17-2014, 09:12 AM   #25
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We should probably try and use/compare against original releases to make sure they are intact. So how was everything released? I believe I have the original releases for everything in bold.


Adore Demos II: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007 as WAVs/FLACs
Quiet And Other Songs: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007 as WAVs/FLACs
Adore Demos I: Bought off Ebay in 2000, how was this distributed?
Gravity Demos: Given out by Billy in 2000, then treed by 34 as part of Triple Tree
Friends and Enemies of Modern Music: Given out by Billy in 2000, then treed by 34 as part of Triple Tree
Machina Acoustic Demos: Billy 4 or 8-track master ---> analogM (billy) ---> CDR master (billy) given to Eric Weinrich -> whoever released it
Mashed Potatoes: CDs distributed by Billy, then uploaded
MCIS Demos I: From a commerical bootleg????
MCIS Demos II: Appeared on Ebay in 2000
MCIS Demos III: ???? Multiple transfers of this circulate, originally treed with Reel Time Sessions?
Pisces Iscariot + Friends: ???? analogue cassette source
Reel Time Sessions: ????
Sequence IV: ????
Machina Premaster: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007
TSP/Moon Demo: Best version is a DAT from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing in 2009
Virgin B-Sides Promo Tape: DAT from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing in 2009
MCIS Rough Mixes: DAT from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing

Is that 666 audio a separate transfer to the DVD?

 
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Old 06-17-2014, 09:41 AM   #26
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didn't the guy who (first) got 666 out (i remember .wmv files or something similar) also sell/give the audio to a bootleg company? i guess that's the original audio source.
not sure how that compares to the audio from the video upgrade. (or was there never an upgrade? this one's a bit far in my memory.)

 
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Old 06-17-2014, 09:53 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magikarp99 View Post
Adore Demos I: Bought off Ebay in 2000, how was this distributed?
i have this as a .shn set. i assume that's how it was first shared.

Quote:
MCIS Demos I: From a commerical bootleg????
this one i'm not sure about. found several sources when looking for it a couple of months ago, but none of them looked like what was around years ago, when i first downloaded it. dunno.

Quote:
MCIS Demos III: ???? Multiple transfers of this circulate, originally treed with Reel Time Sessions?
i found two sources of this. one is a .shn set, so i guess that's the original one. there's also a .flac set, that claims to be a "fix".

Quote:
Pisces Iscariot + Friends: ???? analogue cassette source
must be a tape source, yes. shared as two large .shn files with .cue files, if i'm not mistaken.

Quote:
Reel Time Sessions: ????
didn't some people acquire a dat copy of the master tapes, via the producer or something?

Quote:
Sequence IV: ????
no idea. the description mentions "this tape": http://www.spfc.org/songs-releases/b...ml?boot_id=189

Quote:
Machina Premaster: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007
from a cd-r, picture was included in the leak.

Quote:
Virgin B-Sides Promo Tape: DAT from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing in 2009
what was on this tape again? is it of any interest?

Quote:
MCIS Rough Mixes: DAT from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing
does anyone remember "gish rough mixes"? (and is that of any interest?)

 
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:02 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magikarp99 View Post
Adore Demos I: Bought off Ebay in 2000, how was this distributed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream View Post
i have this as a .shn set. i assume that's how it was first shared.
It was originally leaked by the owner of the master DAT to a few CD-Rs via trade to some people. Then from there it sprung to ebay and eventually the shns. I already ripped the orignal traded CD-R and upped it to whatcd last year I think.

Edit:
WWWAAAAAIIIT I guess I can't remember if it was on ebay first, then the purchaser traded it out to a few people... Forget it.

Last edited by soniclovenoize : 06-17-2014 at 10:12 AM.

 
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:15 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream View Post
what was on this tape again? is it of any interest?
Quote:
Smashing Pumpkins
"B Sides"
16 bit version

Source: SBD>??multitrack or DAT??>Virgin Promo ("B Sides")
Transfer: Virgin Promo Tape>Sony TC-K630ES>R-09(unity gain, 24/48)
Editing: Audacity (amplified, spliced tape sides together), r8brain (downsample/dither), CDWave (split), TLH (FLAC)

01. OBSCURED
02. WHIRL
03. KITTY KAT
04. APATHY
05. BLEW AWAY (VERSION 1)
06. BLEW AWAY (VERSION 2)
07. PISSANT
08. FRENCH MOVIE THEME
09. PURR SHNICKETY

I'm guessing these were given to Virgin for potential inclusion as b-sides for the various Siamese Dream singles

thanks to bmaromar for the tape
-rhinowing
Kitty Kat is the same original mix as was on the Siamese Dream promo cassette. Definitely worth including

 
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:33 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream View Post
does anyone remember "gish rough mixes"? (and is that of any interest?)
I don't remember this.

How about TheFutureEmbrace premaster (was that ever circulated in anything but mp3?)

 
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