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Old 03-01-2008, 09:14 PM   #61
Trotskilicious
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Originally Posted by Rockin' Cherub View Post
actually fuck that racism as we know it hardly existed before the modern era
wrong

 
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Old 03-01-2008, 10:28 PM   #62
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this evolutionary psychology book i have gives an interesting explanation about racism and why its mostly single young males who are xenophobic.

ok, generally in nature the male species is the one which makes the least parental investment in the offspring (mates and runs) and so the only thing that needs to impress the female is his mating ritual and his bright colours and all that other stuff. It's what makes the female decide if she wants to mate with him or not - it all rides on his looks and his mating display.

It's the opposite in humans where the guy sticks around more often than in the animal kingdom.So his appearance doesn't matter so much (like it does for women) but what matters is his status and earning potential so she knows their offspring will be cared for for a longer time. The evolutionary explanation as to why guys drive fast cars and own expensive electronic gadgets and brag is to impress the ladies.

The thing is: a beautiful women will be found beautiful, generally speaking, in many different cultures - most cultures value young, hot women.The waist-hip ratio thing guys find attractice crosses all cultures, its been studied.

But the status of men doesn't always translate. A woman in sweden isn't going to be impressed by your bragging if she doesn't speak your language and a woman in africa isn't going to be impressed with your fancy laptop because its a western thing she wouldn't be familiar with. Guys status is specific to their own cultures.

So, biologically speaking - guys don't want to waste their time in other cultures cause it won't necessarily get them anywhere, whereas women's sexual 'worth' translates better. This is why more single women then men are more likely to travel (again, evolutionary biologically speaking) and hold less xenophobic attitudes because it benefits them to be open to other cultures. But men hold more xenophobic attitudes - these dudes from other countries can move in on 'their' ladies, thus making less ladies for them to choose from in their own cultures and their sexual 'worth' doesn't always work in other cultures anyway.

According to the book when people get married this stuff tends to level off.

One more thing about ethnocentrism. People tend to marry within their own race, for a bunch of reasons most people know already. And this is supposedly good for their offspring - having a large group of their own 'kind' around to mate with and support each other. So it becomes that people encourage their kids to marry 'their own kind' because its assumed that things will tend to work out more smoothly and everyone will have babies that will grow up to support each other within their own nationalities and reducing conflict in their personal lives. Its not politically correct, and not something i approve of but thats the thinking. It's suggested that racism is, in fact, innate within us and by socialization, by learning otherwise, is how we can overcome all of this.

That and lots of intermarriage. Then it will no longer be 'us' vs. 'them' - everyone will now technically be one big extended family and if there's a lot of intermarriage, we'll have to look at 'the other' as part of ourselves.

I know this doesn't explain everything, but its interesting if you're looking at it from purely evolutionary reasons.

 
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Old 03-01-2008, 10:32 PM   #63
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i really shouldn't have bothered to write all that.

 
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Old 03-01-2008, 10:52 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by alisonmonster View Post

It's the opposite in humans where the guy sticks around more often
Unless he is black!

 
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Old 03-01-2008, 11:43 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by alisonmonster View Post
People tend to marry within their own race, for a bunch of reasons most people know already. And this is supposedly good for their offspring - having a large group of their own 'kind' around to mate with and support each other. So it becomes that people encourage their kids to marry 'their own kind' because its assumed that things will tend to work out more smoothly and everyone will have babies that will grow up to support each other within their own nationalities and reducing conflict in their personal lives. Its not politically correct, and not something i approve of but thats the thinking.
this is highly encouraged among the lakota, but it didn't work out for my parents. but now there is alot of pressure to marry someone within our own nation or tribe.

Quote:
It's suggested that racism is, in fact, innate within us and by socialization, by learning otherwise, is how we can overcome all of this.
my experience has been if you're not dark enough skinned, you're not indian enough. or if you move away....you have abandoned your family and the tiospaye...if you come back and help out enough, it's the only means of staying connected. there's alot of racism among indians.

 
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Old 03-01-2008, 11:47 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by alisonmonster View Post
i really shouldn't have bothered to write all that.
Haha, I thought you had copied and pasted. Anyway interesting article except for the suggestion racism is innate. That's complete bullshit. Like I said I never even thought about race, its a concept that never crossed my mind as a child or even teenager (fortunately going to mixed school, and even then it ididn't feel mixed, it was just normal) and that hatred was limited to fringe groups like the KKK, that is until I started posting on this forum and going on the internet in general.

 
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Old 03-01-2008, 11:49 PM   #67
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I'm in 100% agreement with that statement; racism is learned behaviour. When have you ever seen a baby or a young child discriminate based upon skin color, social status, or language?

 
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Old 03-02-2008, 12:06 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by exactlythesame View Post
racism is learned behaviour. When have you ever seen a baby or a young child discriminate based upon skin color, social status, or language?
this is silly. when have you ever seen a baby or a young child with a reproductive drive

 
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Old 03-02-2008, 12:12 AM   #69
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Are you suggesting racism is a natural process in a developing child?

 
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Old 03-02-2008, 12:13 AM   #70
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i dont know if luke de spa is being serious or not but at this point i dont really care. he's only good for theology and vegeterian debates.

 
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Old 03-02-2008, 12:25 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by exactlythesame View Post
Are you suggesting racism is a natural process in a developing child?
i'm suggesting that measuring the behaviour of infants possibly isn't a good barometer for innate behaviour in adult humans

 
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Old 03-02-2008, 12:27 AM   #72
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smae thing u fuck.

wow, what are these new hairs growing around my penis? why is my voice deeper? why do i suddenly want to hang a black man?

 
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Old 03-02-2008, 12:29 AM   #73
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yeah you're luke de spa. i remember in the sixth grade when i first started noticing girls and got into racial profiling. my dick would inexplicably get hard over both of those things.

 
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Old 03-02-2008, 12:30 AM   #74
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look, i agree racism is learned behaviour, but looking at infants isn't how you go about proving that

look, look!! looking look look lookers. in 6th grade you sure were a looker

 
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Old 03-02-2008, 01:04 AM   #75
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if racism is a learned behavior, from where do we learn it? adult humans? where do they learn it? how can it be anything but innate?

 
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Old 03-02-2008, 01:07 AM   #76
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yeah you're luke de spa

 
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Old 03-02-2008, 01:12 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Charmbag View Post
if racism is a learned behavior, from where do we learn it? adult humans? where do they learn it? how can it be anything but innate?
what the fuck

this is even more stupid than lds's suggestion

 
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Old 03-02-2008, 01:26 AM   #78
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what did i say that was stupid?

 
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Old 03-02-2008, 05:57 AM   #79
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Racism, ethnic hatred, polarity, rivalry, it's an us vs. them, divide and conquer natural human instinct. I hate to break it to you huggy John Lennon types but this is how humankind works. I know you want to rewrite history and say racism is an artificial construct of the modern era, but religious justification for slavery and the ethnic inferiorty of Africans goes back to the 15th century. The Romans were unbelievably racist. Chinese have always been extremely racist, the middle kingdom, the center of the universe.

Nationalism was constructed by the modern era to a small extent. But all it really is the divide and conquer shit started using advertising and a flag.

Last edited by Trotskilicious : 03-02-2008 at 06:02 AM.

 
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:41 AM   #80
Rockin' Cherub
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Originally Posted by Trotskilicious View Post
I think you guys have redefined the world noise.

You do know I'm not talking about the genre. I'm talking about literal noise, din, racket.
you said noise rock though. that's a genre.

 
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:49 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by maoi View Post
Haha, I thought you had copied and pasted. Anyway interesting article except for the suggestion racism is innate. That's complete bullshit. Like I said I never even thought about race, its a concept that never crossed my mind as a child or even teenager (fortunately going to mixed school, and even then it ididn't feel mixed, it was just normal) and that hatred was limited to fringe groups like the KKK, that is until I started posting on this forum and going on the internet in general.
it was sort of the same for me. i knew racism existed but the only racists i heard of were utter blockheads anyway. it wasn't before i was 14 or so that i realised that some significant undercurrent of racism exists in a whole lot of people, no matter how intelligent they seem

 
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:50 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Charmbag View Post
if racism is a learned behavior, from where do we learn it? adult humans? where do they learn it? how can it be anything but innate?
now i feel bad i gave you a 5/10

 
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:53 AM   #83
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and trotski, you are right, many people in all times have tried to accumulate power and often xenophobia was an aspect of propaganda mechanisms but this has nothing to do with racism as we know it which ravenguy2000 described

 
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:58 AM   #84
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yeah you're Rockin' Cherub

 
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Old 03-02-2008, 11:16 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Luke de Spa View Post
i'm suggesting that measuring the behaviour of infants possibly isn't a good barometer for innate behaviour in adult humans
i don't know how one could measure 'innate behaviour' in human adults because by the time they've matured they've had thousands of other opinions influence their actions, either for good or for bad

the only way that one could really accurately measure that is if there were a person who was completely secluded from society in general and was only taught the very basics for survival

then we could talk about instincts in an adult human

 
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Old 03-02-2008, 11:27 AM   #86
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but then that person would act abnormally and again, empirical evidence would be blurred somewhat

i really don't think there is any universal innate behaviour as specific as that

 
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Old 03-02-2008, 11:46 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Trotskilicious View Post
Racism, ethnic hatred, polarity, rivalry, it's an us vs. them, divide and conquer natural human instinct. I hate to break it to you huggy John Lennon types but this is how humankind works. I know you want to rewrite history and say racism is an artificial construct of the modern era, but religious justification for slavery and the ethnic inferiorty of Africans goes back to the 15th century. The Romans were unbelievably racist. Chinese have always been extremely racist, the middle kingdom, the center of the universe.

Nationalism was constructed by the modern era to a small extent. But all it really is the divide and conquer shit started using advertising and a flag.
this is what I was trying (though I was really unclear) to say last night. racism to me is "innate" because it occurs over and over throughout history. it isn't a symptom of the times, it's a part of our nature. I wasn't trying to imply that individuals cannot avoid becoming racist, only that it's a tendency which has shown itself in every society.

 
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Old 03-02-2008, 11:47 AM   #88
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So, has Julio really been banned?

 
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Old 03-02-2008, 11:59 AM   #89
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now i feel bad i gave you a 5/10
how obnoxious

 
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Old 03-02-2008, 03:04 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Rockin' Cherub View Post
but then that person would act abnormally and again, empirical evidence would be blurred somewhat

i really don't think there is any universal innate behaviour as specific as that
i guess the point is moot then

 
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