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Old 11-25-2008, 07:41 PM   #1
3hitsaday
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Default my worst fears are becoming reality : i'm losing my respect and desire to be a fan

Someone on here, or somewhere on the official site wrote : "is this not the greatest time to be a SP fan?" Yes, and NO.

I've been a diehard fan ever since the Pumpkins toured near my hometown and i was allowed to see them as my first concert in 1993 on the Siamese Dream tour. The pumpkins followed Red Red Meat with a 2-3 hour show of just raw, flawless energy that put me in and out of conciousness with how enthralled i could possibly be. I was hooked.

I followed these guys, attempting to see more than 1 show on each tour (which is tough when you come from a remote area of Virginia) but managed 2 MCIS tour shows, 2 adore shows, an Uprising tour! show (so fucking good!) and a handfull of others that have added up through the years to 9 or 10 shows. My minds a little foggy now.

I've adored and supported every step they took to go outside their box and make creative and inspiring music for future generations. I never criticized the new stuff of adore, machina, machina II, i just saw it as progression. Something music and art could stand to take on more of...

I flew to Chicago from Virginia to see the United Center show (their next to last show before they disbanded) ....a consolation prize since i didnt have the $$ to fork out for the double door final show.

When i heard they were coming back I guess i said, "i told you so". With billy's creative genius i knew it couldnt remain dormant long.

I picked up zeitgeist and loved the raw energy....the new sound is amazing! I saw them tour for the album at red rocks in Colorado where i now live and thoroughly enjoyed the show. Billy & Jimmy are the heart of the "sound" and whatever decent basist and guitar player they drag along i could care less.

fast forward to today. I just got back after a long weekend where my girlfriend and i flew to chicago last weekend to the the Auditorium theater shows because my girlfriend is from chicago and we could stay w/ her family and see my favorite band. As you know, the show was postponed and i got shortchanged one show, but got to see 1 white crosses show. So why am i so mad?!?

I'm just a bit disgruntled with the current day SP. SP now to me is Billy the little Bitch. And i know one of their main concerns is negative energy on the internet and the media focused on them, but i have to spit this out because i've got it pent up about these guys. To me it seems as Billy is stringing Jimmy along as his Yes-man to make whatever music he feels like. In all of these interviews Jimmy seems like the pussy-whipped boyfriend in the relationship, unable to think for himself. He supports the Billy vehicle because Jimmy has already fucked up too many times in the past and probably had to beg to come back.

But besides all of that - i was never more excited when i read the news release for the Gish anniversary tour - "no setlist repeated, blah blah blah". Well all i've seen from spfc.org : the smashing pumpkins (and zwan!) fan collaborative is that the setlists are the exact same every alternating night! That was all bullshit! The pumpkins are a color by number band when it comes to live shows and i dont get it. They would toss song orders around and introduce new things sometimes, but now that they get into show after show, night after night they cant hang with that idea. The setlist for the halloween show was the most remarkable change i'd ever seen. And then it was all lost. Back to the same setlists. This a 20 year gish anniversary tour? where are the gish songs? Siva, night after night? where's crush, suffer, window paine? rhinoceros even..... how about hummer, spaceboy, luna?

instead, it's become the zeigeist tour part 2 with the old fucking tired setlists with today, tonight, and bullet thrown in.....how many times are you going to play these tired hits when you have a back catalog chock full of great tunes (to forgive, thru the eyes of ruby, jellybelly). These songs are just coming out of the top of my head, they're really not my favorites.....every song they have is my favorite. fuck. Just sit down with your band, rehearse every song in your catalog, get something down you could play live, and change up the setlist ever night. If you mess up a chord or botch a lyric, who the fuck cares? everyone is there in support of a band that's worth alot more than "the world is a vampire".

dont get me wrong. i am so happy with the long, drawn out, psychedelic jamming and drum solo intros i heard.....we need more of that! But to see a man over the age of 40 wearing a white gown prancing around on stage to "everybod come clap your hands" - i was paralyzed.....here's is a musician that i have stood behind in music arguments with friends and strangers alike but now my worst fears are confirmed in that i can no longer hold this high level of respect for the new SP.

And their current artwork and merchandise? gimme a fucking break! $75 hoodies? they've been hanging out w/ their poster girl Paris a bit too much.

I love the new songwriting process and new material and will take all the new material in stride. But until billy and co. decide to grow up and bring something to the stage for fans who were there to support gish and siamese dream the 1st time around (these people are 30-40yrs old mind you), i'm going to choose to stay home and listen to them on my stereo.

 
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Old 11-25-2008, 07:45 PM   #2
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Untr00 fan. Double door wasn't the final show. It was the Metro.

 
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Old 11-25-2008, 07:45 PM   #3
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is this who can make the longest post week?

 
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Old 11-25-2008, 07:48 PM   #4
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i didn't read all of that very thoroughly, but here are my quick thoughts:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3hitsaday View Post
Uprising tour! show
untrue fan alert!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3hitsaday View Post
a consolation prize since i didnt have the $$ to fork out for the double door final show.
untrue fan alert!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3hitsaday View Post
I picked up zeitgeist and loved the raw energy....the new sound is amazing!
untrue alert!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3hitsaday View Post
SP now to me is Billy the little Bitch.
true alert!

 
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Old 11-25-2008, 07:51 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by 3hitsaday View Post
This a 20 year gish anniversary tour?
untro0

 
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Old 11-25-2008, 08:10 PM   #6
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cliffs?

 
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Old 11-25-2008, 10:43 PM   #7
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this is not the Gish tour... that was supposed to be after the new year, but doesnt sound like its gonna happen now. This is just a 20 anniversary tour. so they play anything from the 20 years.

 
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Old 11-25-2008, 11:01 PM   #8
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who gives a fuck. if you don't like the band you don't like the band. move on.

 
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Old 11-26-2008, 12:09 AM   #9
3hitsaday
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i'm obviously not caught up with the new information technology days of new. I have a media degree but refuse to txt message. And now that i'm almost 30 I find that my desire to remember dates, tour names, venue names is not what it used to be. I still swear that tour was called the uprising....shit, no Arising! tour. its coming back now.

back when i traded bootlegs i couldnt told you what ampitheater Sp played on any summer date you threw at me, in what city, state, etc. probably the setlist. When you get older the importance of remembering these things falls to the wayside. so sorry for not remembering the metro over the double door, etc. etc. flame on. believe me, i'll get over it.

i signed up for the message board the other day just to post some info about the extra tickets i had for sale in hopes of finding a buyer. Hopefully i have very soon. So thank you Netphoria msg. board! But the level of negativity i see on these boards is a cause for giving anyone a complex. Go outside, go sit in the sun for awhile, find the half full side of the empty glass.

i say this as i just wrote the longest rant you guys have seen posted in awhile. and from a N008 of all people!!! (or however the hell you spell it in internet speak).

I've been there and back with these guys. I've held onto great memories of alternative rock bands, and energy that seems to have been lost on audiences nowadays.

I didnt even realize until i went to see Weezer a couple weeks ago that noone slam dances or pogo dances, or anything at concerts anymore! what the fuck? i came out of so many SP shows dripping in sweat like i had just fought a cage match. Now everyone keeps their 18inches of "personal space" and would much rather get a good low megapixel shot on their Iphone than actually listen, watch, and enjoy what's going on in front of them. Times they are a changin'.

I realize that i have to let that go. i'm an old timer now. Let the kids do their thing. But pumpkins fans, the ones that have been there are older. and Billy needs to kick this band into high gear and step up over the whiners (like me, i know) but the kids who want to hear Today and realize he played it 20 million times for 20 billion people. Retire it already, at least for awhile. The pumpkins have one of the most prolific catalogues of music of any band in the past 20 years. And not only that, their songs weren't filler for albums, they all rock or make you feel their emotion in a certain way. I realize some songs were meant for certain times and in certain periods in the bands era / lives.....but alot are timeless. Alot more timeless than Glass' theme.

What's funny is after all that bitching, i look online tonight and see that they've decided to play 1 date in Colorado, in Denver. Before going back to Chicago for the postponed date. So my crybaby whining got me...well, somewhere. I'll be there, probably watching him come out in a white dress again, sitting through the same drum solo (rocktopus is it?) from Jimmy, and sitting through Today again.....and singing along to "the world is a vampire" while i simultaneously roll my eyes. But at least i'll get to stand up while i do it and rock out! because the Ogden is GA all the way.....unlike sitting in an uncomfortable movie-theater style seat at the Auditorium theater, unable to stand for fear of having drinks thrown at me. Maybe i'll even start a mosh pit or pogo jump my way into unsuspecting teeenagers with their Iphone held up high, knocking it out of their hand. But then i wont get to watch a shitty quality video on youtube of that song that i watched in person! What would we do then?

See you in Denver.

 
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Old 11-26-2008, 12:15 AM   #10
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My greatest dream is becoming reality... I'm losing my respect for you and my desire to wade through this bullshit.

 
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Old 11-26-2008, 12:18 AM   #11
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lol wut?

 
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Old 11-26-2008, 12:19 AM   #12
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get over it. fucking listen to gish on a rainy day and get over it.

im sick of this. buck up.

 
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Old 11-26-2008, 12:54 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3hitsaday View Post
Go outside, go sit in the sun for awhile, find the half full side of the empty glass.
Holy shit dude. Were you high when you wrote this thread? Can you remember other things like what you wrote?

 
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Old 11-26-2008, 12:58 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by carapatricia View Post
get over it. fucking listen to gish on a rainy day and get over it.

im sick of this. buck up.

 
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Old 11-26-2008, 12:59 AM   #15
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honestly... this does seem like one of the shittiest tours thus far!
seems like Bill does have something against his fellow Americans these days.
Apart from not having Starz and Gossamer, his tour earlier this year here in Europe was definatelly best in the last ten years. True, they could've played Tear, Once upon a time, Beautiful..., but...

 
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Old 11-26-2008, 01:50 AM   #16
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"3hitsaday"

 
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Old 11-26-2008, 01:55 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by 3hitsaday View Post
See you in Denver.
AwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwSNAP, son, we just got TOLD!

 
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Old 11-26-2008, 01:13 PM   #18
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i lost my respect already but i'll probably always be interested in what they're doin.
that said, the DC show i went to was still disappointing. i forget the venue name cos i'm nearly 30.

 
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Old 11-26-2008, 01:30 PM   #19
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i agree he needs to quite bitching. not entirely sure what he wants fans to do at the shows. i just sit there and watch, even though i'm enjoying it i bet he'd say i'm just staring. there is this weird divide between what he wants out of his fans and what fans want out of him. i know he gets pissed when people talk to, but fuck that happens. i was watching thom yorke acoustic at bridge school in 2002 and people were talking during that. in fact every show i go to people get drunk and talk.

i do like the new material a lot though.

 
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Old 11-26-2008, 01:34 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3hitsaday View Post
But besides all of that - i was never more excited when i read the news release for the Gish anniversary tour - "no setlist repeated, blah blah blah". Well all i've seen from spfc.org is that the setlists are the exact same every alternating night! That was all bullshit!
if you're disappointed by this, it's your own fault. they never said they wouldn't repeat setlists. in fact, i thought it was very clear that they would repeat them song for song.

and first you say you're going to stay home and listen to your stereo, but then suddenly you decide to go see one more show on the same fucking tour, with the same fucking setlist. do you like to be disappointed, maybe? JESUS FUCKING CHRIST YOU FUCKING WHINO! you're all bullshit.

 
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Old 11-26-2008, 01:35 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3hitsaday View Post
Someone on here, or somewhere on the official site wrote : "is this not the greatest time to be a SP fan?" Yes, and NO.

I've been a diehard fan ever since the Pumpkins toured near my hometown and i was allowed to see them as my first concert in 1993 on the Siamese Dream tour. The pumpkins followed Red Red Meat with a 2-3 hour show of just raw, flawless energy that put me in and out of conciousness with how enthralled i could possibly be. I was hooked.

I followed these guys, attempting to see more than 1 show on each tour (which is tough when you come from a remote area of Virginia) but managed 2 MCIS tour shows, 2 adore shows, an Uprising tour! show (so fucking good!) and a handfull of others that have added up through the years to 9 or 10 shows. My minds a little foggy now.

I've adored and supported every step they took to go outside their box and make creative and inspiring music for future generations. I never criticized the new stuff of adore, machina, machina II, i just saw it as progression. Something music and art could stand to take on more of...

I flew to Chicago from Virginia to see the United Center show (their next to last show before they disbanded) ....a consolation prize since i didnt have the $$ to fork out for the double door final show.

When i heard they were coming back I guess i said, "i told you so". With billy's creative genius i knew it couldnt remain dormant long.

I picked up zeitgeist and loved the raw energy....the new sound is amazing! I saw them tour for the album at red rocks in Colorado where i now live and thoroughly enjoyed the show. Billy & Jimmy are the heart of the "sound" and whatever decent basist and guitar player they drag along i could care less.

fast forward to today. I just got back after a long weekend where my girlfriend and i flew to chicago last weekend to the the Auditorium theater shows because my girlfriend is from chicago and we could stay w/ her family and see my favorite band. As you know, the show was postponed and i got shortchanged one show, but got to see 1 white crosses show. So why am i so mad?!?

I'm just a bit disgruntled with the current day SP. SP now to me is Billy the little Bitch. And i know one of their main concerns is negative energy on the internet and the media focused on them, but i have to spit this out because i've got it pent up about these guys. To me it seems as Billy is stringing Jimmy along as his Yes-man to make whatever music he feels like. In all of these interviews Jimmy seems like the pussy-whipped boyfriend in the relationship, unable to think for himself. He supports the Billy vehicle because Jimmy has already fucked up too many times in the past and probably had to beg to come back.

But besides all of that - i was never more excited when i read the news release for the Gish anniversary tour - "no setlist repeated, blah blah blah". Well all i've seen from spfc.org : the smashing pumpkins (and zwan!) fan collaborative is that the setlists are the exact same every alternating night! That was all bullshit! The pumpkins are a color by number band when it comes to live shows and i dont get it. They would toss song orders around and introduce new things sometimes, but now that they get into show after show, night after night they cant hang with that idea. The setlist for the halloween show was the most remarkable change i'd ever seen. And then it was all lost. Back to the same setlists. This a 20 year gish anniversary tour? where are the gish songs? Siva, night after night? where's crush, suffer, window paine? rhinoceros even..... how about hummer, spaceboy, luna?

instead, it's become the zeigeist tour part 2 with the old fucking tired setlists with today, tonight, and bullet thrown in.....how many times are you going to play these tired hits when you have a back catalog chock full of great tunes (to forgive, thru the eyes of ruby, jellybelly). These songs are just coming out of the top of my head, they're really not my favorites.....every song they have is my favorite. fuck. Just sit down with your band, rehearse every song in your catalog, get something down you could play live, and change up the setlist ever night. If you mess up a chord or botch a lyric, who the fuck cares? everyone is there in support of a band that's worth alot more than "the world is a vampire".

dont get me wrong. i am so happy with the long, drawn out, psychedelic jamming and drum solo intros i heard.....we need more of that! But to see a man over the age of 40 wearing a white gown prancing around on stage to "everybod come clap your hands" - i was paralyzed.....here's is a musician that i have stood behind in music arguments with friends and strangers alike but now my worst fears are confirmed in that i can no longer hold this high level of respect for the new SP.

And their current artwork and merchandise? gimme a fucking break! $75 hoodies? they've been hanging out w/ their poster girl Paris a bit too much.

I love the new songwriting process and new material and will take all the new material in stride. But until billy and co. decide to grow up and bring something to the stage for fans who were there to support gish and siamese dream the 1st time around (these people are 30-40yrs old mind you), i'm going to choose to stay home and listen to them on my stereo.
Ummm...who cares?

 
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Old 11-26-2008, 01:47 PM   #22
carapatricia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3hitsaday View Post
But to see a man over the age of 40 wearing a white gown prancing around on stage to "everybod come clap your hands" - i was paralyzed.....here's is a musician that i have stood behind in music arguments with friends and strangers alike but now my worst fears are confirmed in that i can no longer hold this high level of respect for the new SP.

And their current artwork and merchandise? gimme a fucking break! $75 hoodies? they've been hanging out w/ their poster girl Paris a bit too much.
First of all, the hoodies were $90 when i bought one in August in Hammond, IN. You're getting a deal AND they are only 30$ on ebay.

Now. about the man in a gown. Billy has always done that. Remember MTV VMAs performing TonightTonight? Fucking ankle-length China-doll dress.

remember Machina tours? Black leather jean paul gaultier looking thing, which then turned into a silver long dress at the final pumpkins metro show and made him look like a giant baked potato.
oh, or SHINY SILVER PANTS and A fucking Zero tshirt for what seemed like 3 years.

http://www.my-mistake.net/infinitepi...y/billy453.jpghttp://www.my-mistake.net/infinitepi...y/billy413.jpghttp://www.my-mistake.net/infinitepi...y/billy215.jpg

always doing these things. to say that somehow him wearing a dress and singing that clap your hands song is hard to respect, and makes it difficult to hold respect for him as a musician is ridic. its almost like you're more concerned with what other people think about you liking them. especially because that little number is an obvious metaphor for the band not being who you think they are.

Last edited by carapatricia : 11-26-2008 at 01:52 PM.

 
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Old 11-26-2008, 01:59 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wounded View Post
i agree he needs to quite bitching. not entirely sure what he wants fans to do at the shows. i just sit there and watch, even though i'm enjoying it i bet he'd say i'm just staring. there is this weird divide between what he wants out of his fans and what fans want out of him. i know he gets pissed when people talk to, but fuck that happens. i was watching thom yorke acoustic at bridge school in 2002 and people were talking during that. in fact every show i go to people get drunk and talk.

i do like the new material a lot though.
I agree with this post. The bitching is ridiculous..if people are complaining so much from all directions then maybe you are going in the wrong artistic direction..Problem is Billy never seems to want to evaluate himself..it's never him doing things wrong. I know he's got alot of issues..but sometimes you reap what you sow.

I flew to Chicago from UK to see the Pumpkins..I was disappointed with the first night at the auditorium but I knew I would be looking at the set and the fact I knew it wouldn't change ruined all surprise values..I hate that they don't change the sets. I knew they would make up for it the second night..but obviously that didn't happen this time so I'm really gutted right now..I'm going to try and take a break from my Pumpkins addiction for a while..as with the Pumpkins you often end up getting burnt.

 
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Old 11-26-2008, 02:37 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaldz View Post
I flew to Chicago from UK to see the Pumpkins..I was disappointed with the first night at the auditorium but I knew I would be looking at the set and the fact I knew it wouldn't change ruined all surprise values..I hate that they don't change the sets. I knew they would make up for it the second night..but obviously that didn't happen this time so I'm really gutted right now..I'm going to try and take a break from my Pumpkins addiction for a while..as with the Pumpkins you often end up getting burnt.
You went to a fucking PUMPKINS SHOW. That's more than I can say for myself, living on the other side of the world. Jesus, enjoy it.

 
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Old 11-26-2008, 02:38 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaldz View Post
I flew to Chicago from UK to see the Pumpkins..I was disappointed with the first night at the auditorium but I knew I would be looking at the set and the fact I knew it wouldn't change ruined all surprise values..I hate that they don't change the sets. I knew they would make up for it the second night..but obviously that didn't happen this time so I'm really gutted right now..I'm going to try and take a break from my Pumpkins addiction for a while..as with the Pumpkins you often end up getting burnt.
You went to a fucking PUMPKINS SHOW. That's more than I can say for myself, living on the other side of the world. Jesus, enjoy it. If you don't like it so much, you could pay for me to fly to Chicago instead and see the show, and your money wouldn't be wasted on yourself "getting burnt".

 
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Old 11-26-2008, 03:42 PM   #26
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Old 11-26-2008, 04:05 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by carapatricia View Post
always doing these things. to say that somehow him wearing a dress and singing that clap your hands song is hard to respect, and makes it difficult to hold respect for him as a musician is ridic. its almost like you're more concerned with what other people think about you liking them. especially because that little number is an obvious metaphor for the band not being who you think they are.
what part of "40 year old" didn't you understand

there's a difference between a guy in his 20s doing that and a guy in his 40s doing that

by the machina tour it was already stupid and people were making fun of the dresses here back in 2000

 
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Old 11-26-2008, 04:07 PM   #28
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i don't know if age is really the problem

it just feels forced to me now

 
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Old 11-26-2008, 04:08 PM   #29
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im fairly sure billy wears dresses for comfort more than for show.

 
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Old 11-26-2008, 04:12 PM   #30
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When billy's on stage , he is a character.

GATMOG, anyone?

 
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