Netphoria Message Board


Go Back   Netphoria Message Board > General Boards > Music News and Discussion
Register Netphoria's Amazon.com Link Members List Photo Album Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-29-2015, 03:16 PM   #31
soniclovenoize
Minion of Satan
 
soniclovenoize's Avatar
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 5,424
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzyroes View Post
It seems like once every good songwriter reaches about their mid 40's and on that they simply can't write a good song anymore. The examples are seemingly endless and it's a true rarity to find an odd exception to this rule.

So what is the deal? Do these guys get old and just stop caring about music? All of the older people I know in my life still love music so that can't be it. Is it just that these guys get pushed too hard and they burn out?
I'm 35, and I noticed--as well as my peers who are also songwriters in their mid-30s--that once you hit 30, it becomes more difficult to write good material. You can still do it, but they are few and far between as compared to in your twenties.

I think there's two main reasons (in my experience):

1) You are older and have been doing this for a while, so you are more aware of becoming stagnant. It is hard to break stylistic patterns you created (maybe even mastered) ten years earlier, so in becoming aware of it, you second guess much of what you write. I can come up with a hundred catchy chord sequences and bullshit a fun melody and abstract lyric in five minutes. Will it be good? No because that's an avenue I already explored and it's time to move on, and to set that aside. In effect, there's less of what I perceive as "quality material" because of the time it takes to consciously redefine your own work. Which leads me to the next point...

2) In your 30s, you have to really face real life. 9-to-5 job, kids, a mortgage, bills, etc. I no longer have the time to sit and write songs when I have to wake up, get the kids to school, sit and work for 7 hours, feed kids, get them to soccer practice, then get them in bed--let alone trying to redefine your creative process in order to not become stagnant. This is the real reason you see hot new bands of kids in their twenties: that's the time of your life when you have less responsibilities, and you can just cash in your student loans and go on tour or whatever. Once you are in your thirties, it's time to grow up and be a manager at GC or something.

Just my $0.02

 
soniclovenoize is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 05:15 PM   #32
ninsp
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Location: sagandi
Posts: 1,861
Default

Rush did Clockwork Angels. Which was absolutely fantastic. Trent Reznor's soundtrack work has been really good post-40, and Hesitation Marks was pretty damn good, IMO. There are a few.

 
ninsp is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 06:20 PM   #33
The exploding boy
Minion of Satan
 
The exploding boy's Avatar
 
Location: "I'm a quivering collection of the worst and least helpful emotions: fear, anxiety, terror, paranoia, indigestion, dishpan hands..."
Posts: 7,843
Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by soniclovenoize View Post
2) Most people in their 30s have to really face real life. 9-to-5 job, kids, a mortgage, bills, etc.
Edited.


obviously i'm dysfunctional but i know perfectly functional people who don't have kids, a mortgage or even really a 9-to-5 job in their 30's.


I'm pretty sure you have bills at any time in adult life though, 20s included...unless you live at home.

 
The exploding boy is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 06:23 PM   #34
The exploding boy
Minion of Satan
 
The exploding boy's Avatar
 
Location: "I'm a quivering collection of the worst and least helpful emotions: fear, anxiety, terror, paranoia, indigestion, dishpan hands..."
Posts: 7,843
Default

while everyone has provided examples, on a PERSONAL leve i don't remember the last time i dled a record of an artist that was over 40 and liked it. shit im not sure i remember when's the last time i dled an album from an artist over 40 at all. Well i mean that they were over 40 when it was made....

Stunted development? Dont' answer that.

 
The exploding boy is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 09:06 PM   #35
fuzzyroes
Braindead
 
fuzzyroes's Avatar
 
Posts: 19,333
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by noyen View Post
who the fuck are you talking about? mike ness? please start seemingly endless list.
Come on man, really? Pretty much every artist that was good in the 80's and 90's that are still putting out music.

It seems like the only exception to the rule is when the artist takes like 8-10 years to put out a new record, then it's usually pretty decent. Bands like Milencolin and Dinosaur Jr.. even GnR put out good comeback albums but even J Macis and Dino Jr are putting out lame crap now. Even innovators that created a genre like the Pixies can't write a good song anymore.

It seems that artists just get older and suddenly just don't care about putting passion into music anymore. I personally don't fucking get it. If I was lucky enough to have a career in music I'd pour everything I have into it.

Sonic brought up a good point about older people having more responsibilities, but these rock-star fucks have all the time in the world to pour their heart into their music. Are they all just that jaded?

 
fuzzyroes is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 09:08 PM   #36
fuzzyroes
Braindead
 
fuzzyroes's Avatar
 
Posts: 19,333
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Johnny View Post
He's talking about Rivers Cuomo
You ever listen to any new Slayer man?.......

....


Yeah.... You should understand this topics sentiment

 
fuzzyroes is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 09:09 PM   #37
redbreegull
Immortal
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: WILD BOY
Posts: 29,734
Default

I dunno if any of you like Gillian Welch but she's a pretty classic singer songwriter from the mid 90s who put out her best album just a few years ago. I'm pretty sure she is over 40.

 
redbreegull is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 09:10 PM   #38
fuzzyroes
Braindead
 
fuzzyroes's Avatar
 
Posts: 19,333
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trotskilicious View Post
tom waits
Jesus Christ man, you're thinking about the few arguable exceptions to the rule... Just cause theres the odd old dude still putting out arguably good music doesn't mean that the point I'm making is trolling.

 
fuzzyroes is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 09:11 PM   #39
fuzzyroes
Braindead
 
fuzzyroes's Avatar
 
Posts: 19,333
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
I dunno if any of you like Gillian Welch but she's a pretty classic singer songwriter from the mid 90s who put out her best album just a few years ago. I'm pretty sure she is over 40.
Name doesn't ring a bell, was she from another group previously?

 
fuzzyroes is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 09:18 PM   #40
Sonic Johnny
Through Silver In Buds
 
Sonic Johnny's Avatar
 
Location: Centralia
Posts: 16,363
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
I dunno if any of you like Gillian Welch but she's a pretty classic singer songwriter from the mid 90s who put out her best album just a few years ago. I'm pretty sure she is over 40.
God I love her so fucking much.

 
Sonic Johnny is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 09:19 PM   #41
fuzzyroes
Braindead
 
fuzzyroes's Avatar
 
Posts: 19,333
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by soniclovenoize View Post
I'm 35, and I noticed--as well as my peers who are also songwriters in their mid-30s--that once you hit 30, it becomes more difficult to write good material. You can still do it, but they are few and far between as compared to in your twenties.

I think there's two main reasons (in my experience):

1) You are older and have been doing this for a while, so you are more aware of becoming stagnant. It is hard to break stylistic patterns you created (maybe even mastered) ten years earlier, so in becoming aware of it, you second guess much of what you write. I can come up with a hundred catchy chord sequences and bullshit a fun melody and abstract lyric in five minutes. Will it be good? No because that's an avenue I already explored and it's time to move on, and to set that aside. In effect, there's less of what I perceive as "quality material" because of the time it takes to consciously redefine your own work. Which leads me to the next point...

2) In your 30s, you have to really face real life. 9-to-5 job, kids, a mortgage, bills, etc. I no longer have the time to sit and write songs when I have to wake up, get the kids to school, sit and work for 7 hours, feed kids, get them to soccer practice, then get them in bed--let alone trying to redefine your creative process in order to not become stagnant. This is the real reason you see hot new bands of kids in their twenties: that's the time of your life when you have less responsibilities, and you can just cash in your student loans and go on tour or whatever. Once you are in your thirties, it's time to grow up and be a manager at GC or something.

Just my $0.02
Definitely good points. But a lot of these artists that everyone enjoys do nothing for a living but music. They have endless time to really pour their hearts into it and think of ideas and noodle around in a creative mindset.

I'm starting to think that it's just the bloody grind of touring all of the time that wears down bands... They do it for so long and they just lose sight of what they enjoyed about it in the first place. And then they start to tie in touring with the new music and they just kind of begrudgingly do it, because they have nothing else to fall back on.

 
fuzzyroes is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 09:29 PM   #42
pavementtune
**************
 
pavementtune's Avatar
 
Location: I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
Posts: 8,225
Default

you started the topic about singer songwriters - and conveniently skipped names like Kate Bush, Björk and PJ Harvey who all released good albums in the past few years.
Instead you did what I predicted - "oh come on, that ONE odd dude named Tom Waits."

and after starting with singer songwriters, you now go on about 90s BANDS who simply run their course, since the 90s are over, sorry to tell you.
You want more of what's gone, stay in your comfort zone of familiar names, and claim you don't get it because "singer songwriters suck once they hit 40."

Just stand to your 90S BAND nostalgia instead of blaming the artists, people moved on. so did the audience who made them big in the first place - most of us actually got older. I guess it must suck for you, but you know, you won't get it back to be 16, either, no matter if Dinosaur Jr. spit out a good album or not.


so what is it - are you talking about singer songwriters or Millencolin and GnR?

Last edited by pavementtune : 10-29-2015 at 09:35 PM.

 
pavementtune is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 09:37 PM   #43
fuzzyroes
Braindead
 
fuzzyroes's Avatar
 
Posts: 19,333
Default

There is a ton of singer/songwriters who perform in bands you know albeit sometimes a collaborative effort.

 
fuzzyroes is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 09:38 PM   #44
fuzzyroes
Braindead
 
fuzzyroes's Avatar
 
Posts: 19,333
Default

I've never enjoyed listening to Kate Bush or PJ Harvey and I think that Bjork downright sucks, so I can't really comment on them

 
fuzzyroes is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 09:39 PM   #45
pavementtune
**************
 
pavementtune's Avatar
 
Location: I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
Posts: 8,225
Default

so you intended to make the thread about the decline of bands like Millencolin and co?
okay then, fascinating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzyroes View Post
I've never enjoyed listening to Kate Bush or PJ Harvey and I think that Bjork downright sucks, so I can't really comment on them
how surprising, only some of the best female singer songwriters out there.

so it's not that they lost what they had once they hit 40, it's you who only liked a few to begin with. so - what is your theory again? older artists suck? ah right.

 
pavementtune is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 09:40 PM   #46
slunken
Virgo
 
slunken's Avatar
 
Posts: 39,077
Default

Lol son Jon the pro musician

 
slunken is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 10:07 PM   #47
fuzzyroes
Braindead
 
fuzzyroes's Avatar
 
Posts: 19,333
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pavementtune View Post
so you intended to make the thread about the decline of bands like Millencolin and co?
okay then, fascinating.


how surprising, only some of the best female singer songwriters out there.

so it's not that they lost what they had once they hit 40, it's you who only liked a few to begin with. so - what is your theory again? older artists suck? ah right.
No... I respect that you still enjoy these 3 artists, but It's not like their newer material is culturally renown.

Quite honestly, when I hear about Bjork and PJ Harvey it's all tied to nostalgia, though you liked the new material, it didn't seem to do much on a grand scale.

And as I mentioned, these old ass artists seem to put out somewhat good music when it's been like 10 years between releases.

 
fuzzyroes is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 10:15 PM   #48
redbreegull
Immortal
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: WILD BOY
Posts: 29,734
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Johnny View Post
God I love her so fucking much.
word, she's one of the best to me. she's the only musician I can think of who openly admitted she had hit a creative rut and backed away from music (for 8 years!) until she truly felt she had a worthy group of songs ready.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzyroes View Post
Name doesn't ring a bell, was she from another group previously?
nah, she's always played with just one other guy, her songwriting partner and guitarist. She's collaborated with Ryan Adams, Old Crow Medicine Show, and other alt/folk country type artists. She was also on the O Brother Where Art Thou soundtrack. I dunno what your musical tastes are. She's real old timey. I know it's not everyone's thing but she's the fucking queen at what she does




 
redbreegull is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 10:17 PM   #49
redbreegull
Immortal
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: WILD BOY
Posts: 29,734
Default

pavementtune can you recommend me PJ Harvey and Kate Bush albums to start with?

 
redbreegull is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 10:33 PM   #50
pavementtune
**************
 
pavementtune's Avatar
 
Location: I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
Posts: 8,225
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzyroes View Post
No... I respect that you still enjoy these 3 artists, but It's not like their newer material is culturally renown.

Quite honestly, when I hear about Bjork and PJ Harvey it's all tied to nostalgia, though you liked the new material, it didn't seem to do much on a grand scale.

.
erm, by what grand scale? reviews? album sales? all three of those recent albums did well - PJ Harvey/Let England Shake, Björk/Vulnicura, and Kate Bush. so no, it's not "just me."

 
pavementtune is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 10:35 PM   #51
pavementtune
**************
 
pavementtune's Avatar
 
Location: I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
Posts: 8,225
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
pavementtune can you recommend me PJ Harvey and Kate Bush albums to start with?
PJ Harvey, you could start with Is This Desire or maybe Rid of Me.

for a Kate Bush starting point I'll refer to you CAIC - the only album of hers I still love is the newest one, 50 Words for Snow.

 
pavementtune is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 10:38 PM   #52
Trotskilicious
Banned
 
Trotskilicious's Avatar
 
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,643
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzyroes View Post
Jesus Christ man, you're thinking about the few arguable exceptions to the rule... Just cause theres the odd old dude still putting out arguably good music doesn't mean that the point I'm making is trolling.
we've listed several people which refutes your point

 
Trotskilicious is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 10:41 PM   #53
redbreegull
Immortal
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: WILD BOY
Posts: 29,734
Default

instead of having a dumb argument that really seems to be based on the question "why did all my favorite artists fall off after age 40?" we should just post about singer songwriters we want to share with each other

 
redbreegull is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 10:46 PM   #54
pavementtune
**************
 
pavementtune's Avatar
 
Location: I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
Posts: 8,225
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
we should just post about singer songwriters we want to share with each other
good call.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
. She was also on the O Brother Where Art Thou soundtrack.
I only know that soundtrack, never listened to more of her since I just recently ended my ignorant idiotic "no country, pls" phase.

what would be a good entry for Gillian Welch?

 
pavementtune is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 10:50 PM   #55
redbreegull
Immortal
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: WILD BOY
Posts: 29,734
Default

there's a lot of stigma around country but when I cautiously dipped my foot in the water the beast dragged me to the bottom

Start with Revival, that's her first. If you like it, do Harrow and the Harvest, that's her most recent. She has some others which are still very good but less consistent IMO.

 
redbreegull is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 11:05 PM   #56
Trotskilicious
Banned
 
Trotskilicious's Avatar
 
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,643
Default

hey fuzzy hows the blogging going this is the kind of thing you should make an article, it rests on a huge, obnoxious generalization, and written in this smug know it all tone, it'll piss everyone off and drive comments. it's perfect for vice or gawker

and also you've got this PFT Commenter esque personality where it's like you're every stereotype about grungetarded buttrockers come to life

 
Trotskilicious is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 11:13 PM   #57
reprise85
garbage person
 
reprise85's Avatar
 
Location: I'm surprised you guys are so big on rap, considering it's the most masochistic music of any genre.
Posts: 30,267
Default

because you touch yourself at night

 
reprise85 is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2015, 02:30 AM   #58
noyen
Immortal
 
noyen's Avatar
 
Posts: 26,800
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzyroes View Post
Come on man, really? Pretty much every artist that was good in the 80's and 90's that are still putting out music.

It seems like the only exception to the rule is when the artist takes like 8-10 years to put out a new record, then it's usually pretty decent. Bands like Milencolin and Dinosaur Jr.. even GnR put out good comeback albums but even J Macis and Dino Jr are putting out lame crap now. Even innovators that created a genre like the Pixies can't write a good song anymore.

It seems that artists just get older and suddenly just don't care about putting passion into music anymore. I personally don't fucking get it. If I was lucky enough to have a career in music I'd pour everything I have into it.

Sonic brought up a good point about older people having more responsibilities, but these rock-star fucks have all the time in the world to pour their heart into their music. Are they all just that jaded?
Christ your opinion and outlook on everything is buttfuck retarded. I am sorry you were a down syndrome baby who grew into a dolt. Who? How do you know they don't care because your taste sucks? Milencoin? Who? Dino Jr put out lame crap? They may not be 20 but they are older musicians making money to huge crowds often bigger than ever. What are you doing? Still don't know who you are referencing cuz like you haven't illustrated a point yet. Fuck I wish some of you would just keep your stupid fucking sausage fingers off keyboards. Fucking useless discussion starters. Fuck you. Die.

 
noyen is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2015, 02:35 AM   #59
redbreegull
Immortal
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: WILD BOY
Posts: 29,734
Default

I dunno I think Dino Jr's music is still great. they still play dingy clubs around here generally but it's actually a really wonderful mix of older people and younger fans. they always rock and people dance and jump around. seems like that is pretty much the best case scenario for a band of old grizzled men playing rock music

 
redbreegull is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2015, 12:50 PM   #60
Rairun
Ownz
 
Posts: 925
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
there's a lot of stigma around country but when I cautiously dipped my foot in the water the beast dragged me to the bottom

Start with Revival, that's her first. If you like it, do Harrow and the Harvest, that's her most recent. She has some others which are still very good but less consistent IMO.
I don't know why I never thought to listen to country - I really enjoyed those early Djali Zwan sets, but never sought more music like it. I think Gillian Welch might hit just the right spot.

 
Rairun is offline
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Google


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:29 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Smashing Pumpkins, Alternative Music
& General Discussion Message Board and Forums
www.netphoria.org - Copyright © 1998-2014