What do you consider "sex"???

[Sepiae]

Originally posted by Lie
You lose your virginity when someone makes you go .

<--so that is what happens during/after first sex, is the person still a virgin?

I'm not making fun, I am curious.

[Elijah.F]

if U PEOPLE JUST WOULD GET SOME HELP THIS WOULD NOT EVEN BE A THREAD BUT SEX IS SEX U CANT SUGAR COAT IT

[Lie]

Um, just for clarification, the above doesn't reeeeeally pertain to the "what is sex" argument, because that's an argument I care little to nothing about. I just thought it was cool. I mean, "sex" is such a cold meaningless term anyway, and I find it hard to argue for it, to care about what it really means when, in the physical sense, someone could go through the motions of "sex" while they were half-asleep. But as far as the whole virginity debate, I don't think virginity is so much any kind of innocence as the state of never having done sexual THINGS (oral sex, anal sex, whatever you want to call them) with someone in a deliberate, definite way with the intent of giving and/or receiving sexual pleasure/gratification.

[Mr. Restroom TP Refiller]

I consider it to be when the guy makes the girl orgasm and the girl makes the guy orgasm, regardless of whether there's any penetration or not.

It's not that complicated.

[Sepiae]

Originally posted by Lie
Um, just for clarification, the above doesn't reeeeeally pertain to the "what is sex" argument, because that's an argument I care little to nothing about. I just thought it was cool. I mean, "sex" is such a cold meaningless term anyway, and I find it hard to argue for it, to care about what it really means when, in the physical sense, someone could go through the motions of "sex" while they were half-asleep. But as far as the whole virginity debate, I don't think virginity is so much any kind of innocence as the state of never having done sexual THINGS (oral sex, anal sex, whatever you want to call them) with someone in a deliberate, definite way with the intent of giving and/or receiving sexual pleasure/gratification.

Okay. I was just wondering if you were playing at the whole renewed virginity thing in a roundabout way. Like, I know people who've had an atrocious first sex experience, didn't do anything after that, and consider themselves virgins.

[Kentaro]

My verdict: you're friend's a slut!

I kid, I kid...

[Lie]

Originally posted by Sepiae
<--so that is what happens during/after first sex, is the person still a virgin?

I'm not making fun, I am curious.

If the person was actively pursuing the act of sex with another person and it happened and just sucked, no. But if it's a case, of like, a girl who feels obligated to lose her virginity for peer pressure's sake, and just lies still and lets the guy crawl all over her, it's not like she's really having sex. I think she's still a virgin in a certain sense. "Intercourse" is more of a medical term than "virginity," which is more of a religious/moral thing, so I do think it's somewhat flexible, partially to the wishes of the person involved. I mean, it's the same thing with rape. I don't want to open up this can of worms, but if someone is raped and wants to maintain that they are a virgin, I think that's perfectly reasonable. Basically I think it is possible to be involved in an act of sexual intercourse with someone and still be a virgin, and before someone jumps on me I'm not talking in the medical or technical sense, but virginity is such a throwaway term to begin with I think that to a certain extent we can do what we like with it.

[Lie]

Originally posted by Mr. Restroom TP Refiller
I consider it to be when the guy makes the girl orgasm and the girl makes the guy orgasm, regardless of whether there's any penetration or not.

It's not that complicated.

That's what it should be, so yeah, why not?

[DeviousJ]

Originally posted by Lie


If the person was actively pursuing the act of sex with another person and it happened and just sucked, no. But if it's a case, of like, a girl who feels obligated to lose her virginity for peer pressure's sake, and just lies still and lets the guy crawl all over her, it's not like she's really having sex. I think she's still a virgin in a certain sense. "Intercourse" is more of a medical term than "virginity," which is more of a religious/moral thing, so I do think it's somewhat flexible, partially to the wishes of the person involved. I mean, it's the same thing with rape. I don't want to open up this can of worms, but if someone is raped and wants to maintain that they are a virgin, I think that's perfectly reasonable. Basically I think it is possible to be involved in an act of sexual intercourse with someone and still be a virgin, and before someone jumps on me I'm not talking in the medical or technical sense, but virginity is such a throwaway term to begin with I think that to a certain extent we can do what we like with it.

I totally agree with this. As far as I'm concerned, there is a physical and a mental aspect to virginity, and just because you aren't a virgin in one sense doesn't mean you're not in another. The trouble is that there are no clear definitions - whereas someone who has had consensual penetrative sex is obviously not a virgin, things like oral sex qualify as a waypoint. The understanding that you're not quite going the whole way means that some amount of innocence is retained; what that counts for is open to debate. And lesbian sex, which does not necessarily ******* penetration, should also count as losing your virginity - perhaps not in the most technical physical sense, but in every other. Again, I think it's a case of understanding and intent. Maybe this girl *is* a virgin in some sense, if she truly believes it - I'm with Desi though. Sounds like denial

[Lie]

Originally posted by DeviousJ
I totally agree with this. As far as I'm concerned, there is a physical and a mental aspect to virginity, and just because you aren't a virgin in one sense doesn't mean you're not in another. The trouble is that there are no clear definitions - whereas someone who has had consensual penetrative sex is obviously not a virgin, things like oral sex qualify as a waypoint. The understanding that you're not quite going the whole way means that some amount of innocence is retained; what that counts for is open to debate. And lesbian sex, which does not necessarily ******* penetration, should also count as losing your virginity - perhaps not in the most technical physical sense, but in every other. Again, I think it's a case of understanding and intent. Maybe this girl *is* a virgin in some sense, if she truly believes it - I'm with Desi though. Sounds like denial

Oh no, I completely agree that Rhonda's friend is a little bit confused, I was just saying that I think intent is important.

[slugger]

bottomline is this..

anything with penetration and the chance to get off is sex.

[Guen]

for those of you who may be taking it as a given that lesbians can't significantly penetrate without some kind of aid...i lost my medical virginity to my first girlfriend, and she used nothing but her hands.

[DeviousJ]

Originally posted by Lie


Oh no, I completely agree that Rhonda's friend is a little bit confused, I was just saying that I think intent is important.

I wasn't arguing with you, I just thought that after what I'd said I'd better clarify that in this case, I reckon she's reaching a little

[Lie]

Originally posted by Guen
for those of you who may be taking it as a given that lesbians can't significantly penetrate without some kind of aid...i lost my medical virginity to my first girlfriend, and she used nothing but her hands.

That phenomenon isn't limited to lesbians, either. That was sort of my point, though. Most people consider that mutual masturbation, i.e., not sex, even though it involves definite penetration, much more so than oral sex.

[Lie]

Originally posted by DeviousJ
I wasn't arguing with you, I just thought that after what I'd said I'd better clarify that in this case, I reckon she's reaching a little

So to speak.

[DeviousJ]

Originally posted by Guen
for those of you who may be taking it as a given that lesbians can't significantly penetrate without some kind of aid...i lost my medical virginity to my first girlfriend, and she used nothing but her hands.

I don't know if this was directed at me, but I was just making the point that lesbians can have sex, but not necessarily require penetration for it to count as such (unfortunately I'm not a lesbian, so I'm not speaking 'firsthand' here) - so it's possible to lose your virginity without penetration being involved. But it would be good to hear your view on the whole thing

[sickbadthing]

Originally posted by DeviousJ


I totally agree with this.

Yeah but dude, you like totally kiss her ass. Of course you agree!

[DeviousJ]

Originally posted by sickbadthing


Yeah but dude, you like totally kiss her ass. Of course you agree!

You'd be surprised - most of our AIM conversationations start about Ikea products and we end up arguing about the pronunciation of Flúgenensassen cups

I left that mispelling in because it looks like my mind snapped

[shaniqua]

Originally posted by Mr. Restroom TP Refiller
I consider it to be when the guy makes the girl orgasm and the girl makes the guy orgasm, regardless of whether there's any penetration or not.

It's not that complicated.

your first handjob is when you lost your virginity?

[jenn]

if the word "sex" is what constitudes sex or not-sex...what the hell is cybersex? i mean...if you have cyber sex when you're 12...does that take your virginity?

[sickbadthing]

Originally posted by DeviousJ


You'd be surprised - most of our AIM conversationations start about Ikea products and we end up arguing about the pronunciation of Flúgenensassen cups

I left that mispelling in because it looks like my mind snapped

Oh great. Now I'm trying to guess how that's pronounced.

[DeviousJ]

Originally posted by sickbadthing


Oh great. Now I'm trying to guess how that's pronounced.

It's kinda a cross between Segnæssünen and Fluagnöt

[Never Nohen]

This is a discussion I've had with a bunch of people, and I think trying to come up with an objective, medical, physical definition is just too complicated, there are too many exceptions and extenuating circumstances...It always ends up with strange uncomfortable things like lesbians being lifelong virgins, or my having had sex with someone who hasn't had sex with me.

Basically the only workable definition I've ever been able to come up with is that something is sex if and only if everybody involved considers it sex at the time. At least that's what works for me, YMMV.

[Never Nohen]

Originally posted by Mr. Restroom TP Refiller
I consider it to be when the guy makes the girl orgasm and the girl makes the guy orgasm, regardless of whether there's any penetration or not.

It's not that complicated.

Really? That means I'm still a virgin...

Sweet. Considering I've fucked six people, and have been sleeping with one of them since I was 16...That's quite an impressive feat. Go me.

[Undone]

Originally posted by Never_Nohen


Really? That means I'm still a virgin...

Sweet. Considering I've fucked six people, and have been sleeping with one of them since I was 16...That's quite an impressive feat. Go me.

No kidding. I NEVER have an orgasm when I'm doing fun stuff with someone else. I think it's b/c it takes so much time and effort just working on it myself. I dunno.