no one deserves to be treated this way

severin · 11-09-2002, 08:12 AM

these are pictres taken during the transport of the taliban fighters to guantanamo (which is a 15 hours flight):
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/pow1.jpg
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/pow2.jpg
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/pow3.jpg
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/pow4.jpg

the pentagon has confirmed those pics btw..

Travis Meekz · 11-09-2002, 09:04 AM

it's called war

severin · 11-09-2002, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Travis Meeks
it's called war

that's not war this is torture....and if you want to call it war it's still against the genevan convention

11-09-2002, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Travis Meeks
it's called war

No, it's called having human decency.

strange_one · 11-09-2002, 10:06 AM

the stench of piss and shit in there would be awful

mono · 11-09-2002, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Travis Meeks
it's called war

I hope you become a victim of the al-Queda networks next terrorist act!

strange_one · 11-09-2002, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Travis Meeks
it's called war

it's called a sickening, arrogant attitude meeks

Oblivious · 11-09-2002, 10:20 AM

that doesn't look like war to me. it looks like some good ol boys having a good time with some people that may have happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. regardless of what anyone thinks i am SURE that not every member of the taliban were/are horrible monsters. like many people born or brought into turbulent situations/times they do what they feel like they have to do and/or what's expected of them. it doesn't make them evil and it doesn't mean that they should suffer under inhumane conditions. it makes me fucking sick to think of how many of those people were probably treated horribly by our troops. fucking trigger happy, slap happy hillbillies gone off to fight a war that they could never even begin to comprehend let alone win.

OOPS. TWIN TOWERS FELL? HEY MAN IT"S WAR!

Ihaman · 11-09-2002, 12:03 PM

*posts pictures of the thousands of people that have been treated far worse by the taliban*

nobody deserves be treated like that.

severin · 11-09-2002, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ihaman
*posts pictures of the thousands of people that have been treated far worse by the taliban*

nobody deserves be treated like that.

true, but does this mean they can be treated like something non-human?

11-09-2002, 12:35 PM

Being anti-war is one thing. If that's your stance, which it clearly is, then fine.

But your ignorance of the fact that war *******s: torture, inhumane treatment of people, etc. is amazing.

jenn · 11-09-2002, 12:48 PM

i agree that their treatment looks apalling. however, how would an american be treated by them? all i really remember of that is a nice-young journalist... i believe the video of that is up on ogrish.

severin · 11-09-2002, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Ace of Aces
Being anti-war is one thing. If that's your stance, which it clearly is, then fine.

But your ignorance of the fact that war *******s: torture, inhumane treatment of people, etc. is amazing.

see, i'm totally aware that war *******s all of these things, but there are some things here which are different to a "normal" war:

first, it's no war. the "war on terror" is an invention of cnn. what happened in afghanistan with the international troops was an un-mission.

second, even if it would have been a war, there is the geneve convention which handles the treatment of prisoners of war:

PART I GENERAL PROVISIONS
Article 1 The High Contracting Parties undertake to respect and to ensure respect for the present Convention in all circumstances
Article 4
A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:…….3. Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.
Article 9 The provisions of the present Convention constitute no obstacle to the humanitarian activities which the International Committee of the Red Cross or any other impartial humanitarian organization may, subject to the consent of the Parties to the conflict concerned, undertake for the protection of prisoners of war and for their relief.
Article 13 Prisoners of war must at all times be humanely treated. Any unlawful act or omission by the Detaining Power causing death or seriously endangering the health of a prisoner of war in its custody is prohibited, and will be regarded as a serious breach of the present Convention. In particular, no prisoner of war may be subjected to physical mutilation or to medical or scientific experiments of any kind which are not justified by the medical, dental or hospital treatment of the prisoner concerned and carried out in his interest. Likewise, prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity. Measures of reprisal against prisoners of war are prohibited.
CAPTIVITY
SECTION I
BEGINNING OF CAPTIVITY
Article 17 No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to any unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind. Prisoners of war who, owing to their physical or mental condition, are unable to state their identity, shall be handed over to the medical service. The identity of such prisoners shall be established by all possible means, subject to the provisions of the preceding paragraph. The questioning of prisoners of war shall be carried out in a language which they understand.
Article 20 The evacuation of prisoners of war shall always be effected humanely and in conditions similar to those for the forces of the Detaining Power in their changes of station. The Detaining Power shall supply prisoners of war who are being evacuated with sufficient food and potable water, and with the necessary clothing and medical attention. The Detaining Power shall take all suitable precautions to ensure their safety during evacuation, and shall establish as soon as possible a list of the prisoners of war who are evacuated.

for me those pics don't conform with this convention

third: the reaction of the pentagon: it's not like they would be/act ashamed on how such a treatment could have happened, but no, they simply state that the publication of these pics happened because of a security leak and that the responsible people (for making these pics public) will be punished...

fourth: exactly those things which america does in "times of war" (torturing prisoners, total denial of human rights, killing people in foreign countrys where there is no war, using weapons of mass-destruction) are those on which countries are labeled either "friend" or "enemy". and this hypocrisis is what really makes me wanna puke

Mr_sister · 11-09-2002, 01:24 PM

if they managed to catch sabretooth, he would defenetly have to be treated like that, or worse.

DeviousJ · 11-09-2002, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by melancholia
i agree that their treatment looks apalling. however, how would an american be treated by them? all i really remember of that is a nice-young journalist... i believe the video of that is up on ogrish.

Are you talking about that guy who was executed? That's entirely different. The point is, these people were captured defending their country, not for committing terrorist acts against the US. Like Severin said, there are certain protocols to follow in the treatment of POWs, which are in place to protect human rights. Given the US' high-morality pitch, it all does look a little hypocritical

bonsor · 11-09-2002, 01:28 PM

War is a good excuse for treating people like this.

But what's a good excuse for war?

bonsor · 11-09-2002, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeviousJ
Given the US' high-morality pitch, it all does look a little hypocritical

A little?

jenn · 11-09-2002, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeviousJ

Are you talking about that guy who was executed? That's entirely different. The point is, these people were captured defending their country, not for committing terrorist acts against the US. Like Severin said, there are certain protocols to follow in the treatment of POWs, which are in place to protect human rights. Given the US' high-morality pitch, it all does look a little hypocritical

i agree...but what else do you expect from the US anyway? the US always ensures that our POW's are in decent shape, but the same is never extended in return. good point by the way.

11-09-2002, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Ace of Aces

But your ignorance of the fact that war *******s: torture, inhumane treatment of people, etc. is amazing.

It shouldn't. For all our talk about morals and standards, this shit shouldn't happen. I'm blown away that the Pentagon is more concerend with finding the guy who leaked the photos than anything else. They don't even care about that the public knows, because they've got the country warped into believing that anything is acceptable in the "war" against terrorism.

Mr_sister · 11-09-2002, 01:50 PM

Quote:

But what's a good excuse for war?

Example : over 1 milion people are slaughtered in Rwanda. Other countries do hardly nothing too stop this from happening. A little war to save some of the people there wouldn't have been a completely bad thing.

The gulfwar seemed quite important too, do you think it would be a good thing if Saddam got control of that country?

King of the Horseflies · 11-09-2002, 01:56 PM

i don't see anything against blindfolding and restraining captives in the convention.

when the taliban and al-quida (sp?) killed so many innocent people, opressed their own people, many ethnic minorities and women, ruined whatever economy was left in afganistan... etc. it is easily justified that some of the POWs might get a little roughed up. its not like the US went in and picked 2000 some random innocent people out of afganistan. THEY CAPTURED TALIBAN FIGHTERS WHO WERE SHOOTING BACK! it wasn't legally a war, but on the frontlines, official or not, war is war. i don't like the idea either.

Undone · 11-09-2002, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr_sister

Example : over 1 milion people are slaughtered in Rwanda. Other countries do hardly nothing too stop this from happening. A little war to save some of the people there wouldn't have been a completely bad thing.

The gulfwar seemed quite important too, do you think it would be a good thing if Saddam got control of that country?

And if you really want to talk about Rwanda, the US supplied weapons to help with the massacre. *pats us on collective back*

11-09-2002, 02:01 PM

It really helps our case by putting bags over their heads, kicking them around, and transporting them like luggage. Yes, the Taliban did worse, but what's your point? We're supposed to strive for a certain level of dignity. Nobody's saying they should get royal treatment.

Mr_sister · 11-09-2002, 02:02 PM

Quote:

And if you really want to talk about Rwanda, the US supplied weapons to help with the massacre. *pats us on collective back*

Your country sucks alright, that of course doesn't change the fact that a war could have been necessary in that particular case.

Undone · 11-09-2002, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sean Casey
It really helps our case by putting bags over their heads, kicking them around, and transporting them like luggage. Yes, the Taliban did worse, but what's your point? We're supposed to strive for a certain level of dignity. Nobody's saying they should get royal treatment.

Exactly. It's definitely not necessary to stoop to anyone's level. I think handcuffs would have been adequate. I'd love to see what happens when they get to G-bay. This may be a warmup.

Undone · 11-09-2002, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr_sister
Your country sucks alright, that of course doesn't change the fact that a war could have been necessary in that particular case.

I must have assumed you were a US citizen and saying that statement meaning "we should have helped." Which would have been ironic. Sorry for missing your point.

Smiley33 · 11-09-2002, 02:07 PM

in war, there is no such thing as an individual. Or humanity. Or dignity. You are stripped of your individuality and take on the identity of a group. On that note, war is a gut-wrenching spectacle of everything that is wrong with the human race.

11-09-2002, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr_sister

do hardly nothing

Smiley33 · 11-09-2002, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sean Casey

that sounds difficult.

Affect · 11-09-2002, 02:15 PM

Would you prefer first class. Possibly the option of duck or veal?

This is transport of prisoners of war. They are being transported in an ARMY transport plane. They are all considered dangerous.

Two days earlier, these fucking towel heads were trying to kill American soldiers. They deserve this, and then some.

America did not violate their rights as prisoners of war. What the fuck is wrong with you morons?

11-09-2002, 08:12 AM	#1
severin no more than sympathy Location: lying on the floor Posts: 14,826	no one deserves to be treated this way these are pictres taken during the transport of the taliban fighters to guantanamo (which is a 15 hours flight): http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/pow1.jpg http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/pow2.jpg http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/pow3.jpg http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/pow4.jpg the pentagon has confirmed those pics btw.. __________________ i once told a To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. that nothing really ends

11-09-2002, 10:20 AM	#8
Oblivious Apocalyptic Poster Location: Village Oblivia Posts: 3,481	that doesn't look like war to me. it looks like some good ol boys having a good time with some people that may have happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. regardless of what anyone thinks i am SURE that not every member of the taliban were/are horrible monsters. like many people born or brought into turbulent situations/times they do what they feel like they have to do and/or what's expected of them. it doesn't make them evil and it doesn't mean that they should suffer under inhumane conditions. it makes me fucking sick to think of how many of those people were probably treated horribly by our troops. fucking trigger happy, slap happy hillbillies gone off to fight a war that they could never even begin to comprehend let alone win. OOPS. TWIN TOWERS FELL? HEY MAN IT"S WAR! __________________

11-09-2002, 09:04 AM	#2
Travis Meekz Minion of Satan Location: . Posts: 6,301	it's called war

11-09-2002, 10:06 AM	#5
strange_one No Chance Location: Here Posts: 13,788	the stench of piss and shit in there would be awful

11-09-2002, 12:03 PM	#9
Ihaman Sometimes, though. Location: Hazard, California Posts: 21,274	posts pictures of the thousands of people that have been treated far worse by the taliban nobody deserves be treated like that.

11-09-2002, 12:35 PM	#11
Boner Posts: n/a	Being anti-war is one thing. If that's your stance, which it clearly is, then fine. But your ignorance of the fact that war *******s: torture, inhumane treatment of people, etc. is amazing.

11-09-2002, 12:48 PM	#12
jenn Minion of Satan Location: new york Posts: 6,325	i agree that their treatment looks apalling. however, how would an american be treated by them? all i really remember of that is a nice-young journalist... i believe the video of that is up on ogrish.

11-09-2002, 01:24 PM	#14
Mr_sister Pledge Posts: 94	if they managed to catch sabretooth, he would defenetly have to be treated like that, or worse.

11-09-2002, 01:28 PM	#16
bonsor Minion of Satan Location: midwest Posts: 8,771	War is a good excuse for treating people like this. But what's a good excuse for war?

11-09-2002, 01:56 PM	#21
King of the Horseflies Ownz Posts: 536	i don't see anything against blindfolding and restraining captives in the convention. when the taliban and al-quida (sp?) killed so many innocent people, opressed their own people, many ethnic minorities and women, ruined whatever economy was left in afganistan... etc. it is easily justified that some of the POWs might get a little roughed up. its not like the US went in and picked 2000 some random innocent people out of afganistan. THEY CAPTURED TALIBAN FIGHTERS WHO WERE SHOOTING BACK! it wasn't legally a war, but on the frontlines, official or not, war is war. i don't like the idea either.

11-09-2002, 02:01 PM	#23
Sean Casey Posts: n/a	It really helps our case by putting bags over their heads, kicking them around, and transporting them like luggage. Yes, the Taliban did worse, but what's your point? We're supposed to strive for a certain level of dignity. Nobody's saying they should get royal treatment.

11-09-2002, 02:07 PM	#27
Smiley33 Minion of Satan Posts: 6,542	in war, there is no such thing as an individual. Or humanity. Or dignity. You are stripped of your individuality and take on the identity of a group. On that note, war is a gut-wrenching spectacle of everything that is wrong with the human race.

11-09-2002, 02:15 PM	#30
Affect Fuck Location: xxx Posts: 5,360	Would you prefer first class. Possibly the option of duck or veal? This is transport of prisoners of war. They are being transported in an ARMY transport plane. They are all considered dangerous. Two days earlier, these fucking towel heads were trying to kill American soldiers. They deserve this, and then some. America did not violate their rights as prisoners of war. What the fuck is wrong with you morons?