(A technical) philosophy question

sawdust restaurants · 10-25-2002, 01:13 AM

In The Birth of Tragedy, Nietzsche expressly states his approval for the Dionysian breakdown of the principle of individuation, thus enabling a balance between the Apollonian and the Dionysian; this seems to suggest approval for a philosophy that balances the individual with the world will, for lack of better terminology.

But in later works, things are all about the individual. Zarathustra, Beyond Good and Evil, the Genealogy of Morals ... to a lesser or a greater degree, all of them are about breaking apart from herd mentality. In Zarathustra, there are entire passages devoted to the loneliness the overman will feel due to his solitude from society.

My question is this, for anybody who may have studied Nietzsche: did he just change his mind, or am I way off base?

I know this is a crappy place to ask, but I'm studying, my test is in about ten hours, and I didn't think of this until now. And don't link me to Sparknotes or whatever; I've checked all those places and none of them really answer this question.

10-25-2002, 01:36 AM

my balls are exceptionally large.

10-25-2002, 01:44 AM

my balls can't be overtaken, they're perfect. Balls even. just ask plato.

10-25-2002, 01:50 AM

you can take a nice close look at them when they're resting on your chin!

Samsa · 10-25-2002, 01:55 AM

check everything2.com, numbnuts

10-25-2002, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by killtheyouth

nietzsche was a german, that means he doesnt want somone like JEW reading him.

ok maybe your balls are bigger than mine

Samsa · 10-25-2002, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by killtheyouth

nietzsche was a german, that means he doesnt want somone like JEW reading him.

nietzche didn't hate jews okay? hm hm hm *goes to everything2.com*

Samsa · 10-25-2002, 02:28 AM

2: Nietzsche was a white supremacist, believing that Jews were lesser creatures. Most of the "evidence" cited for this criticism comes from a misinterpretation of "blonde beast" (a term used most notably in Toward a Genealogy of Morals), though it also has something to do with the purely coincidental relationship between Nietzsche's writings and Adolf Hitler. It's patently false that Nietzsche was anti-Semitic. He was very anti-Christian, and knew full well that Yehoshuah ben Yoseph was Jewish and so on, but that had nothing to do with his criticisms of Christianity (as it would for many white supremacists of his and later days). In fact, several times throughout his writings Nietzsche praises the conquering spirit of the ancient Hebrews as well as the strong national character of the diasporatic Jews of his day. He didn't agree with them on many metaphysical and ethical points, believing that the morality of the Bible was inappropriate for a healthy, developing society; but by no stretch of the imagination was he actually anti-Semitic.

In regards to the "blonde beast" (or in German, "blondes Biest"): – "blonde" does not refer to the fair features of the Aryan race, although for Nietzsche the Aryans were an example of a noble people with a strong culture. "Blonde" is supposed to be a reference to lions, symbolic of the spirit of a healthy society. In Toward a Genealogy of Morals Nietzsche lists some other races he counts as "blonde beasts;" the list *******s the Japanese and the Arabs, a semitic race. Furthermore, Nietzsche sure as heck did not believe that the modern descendents of the Aryans were anything to write home about; they were a weak, decadent, historically myopic people who couldn't conquer their way out of a paper bag. After all, the Aryan races had produced more than their fair share of décadents: Buddha, Plato, Schopenhauer....

Elizabeth Förster-Nietzsche and her husband supported the Nazi party when it was formed. Nietzsche refused to go to his own sister's wedding because she was marrying an anti-Semite.

Samsa · 10-25-2002, 02:30 AM

1: Nietzsche was a misogynist, believing that women were lesser creatures. Sometimes, people pull up a bunch of quotes from Beyond Good and Evil or Also Sprach Zarathustra to prove that Nietzsche hated women. This is simply not so. Nietzsche often used a literary device called sarcasm – perhaps you've heard of it. Women were considered inferior by the vast majority in the Second Reich. To a certain extent, this was thanks to the women themselves. Nietzsche often passed criticism on the women of his day – for many of the same reasons we pass criticism on the women of his day. I really don't think Nietzsche believed you needed a penis to be an Übermensch.

Walter Kaufmann suggests that many of Nietzsche's comments about women were "second-hand and third-rate." There is much to support the idea that, even when he was serious about what he was saying about women, it can be attributed to a significant reclusiveness on his part; he didn't have much contact with women, or really anyone for that matter, and if his opinions were ill-informed, they were not ill-intended.

On a side-note, Nietzsche proposed to several women, most notably Lou Salomé. At one point in his life, he tried to arrange a platonic ménage à trois with her and friend and rival Paul Ree. As it worked out, though, Salomé ran off to have a slightly-less-than-platonic affair with Ree, leaving Nietzsche in the dust. There is an extant photograph which shows Nietzsche and Ree, on their hands and knees, lashed to a wagon in which sits Salomé, who is holding a whip. Make of all this what you will.

10-25-2002, 01:13 AM	#1
sawdust restaurants Fucking Creep Location: On the East Coast Posts: 5,992	(A technical) philosophy question In The Birth of Tragedy, Nietzsche expressly states his approval for the Dionysian breakdown of the principle of individuation, thus enabling a balance between the Apollonian and the Dionysian; this seems to suggest approval for a philosophy that balances the individual with the world will, for lack of better terminology. But in later works, things are all about the individual. Zarathustra, Beyond Good and Evil, the Genealogy of Morals ... to a lesser or a greater degree, all of them are about breaking apart from herd mentality. In Zarathustra, there are entire passages devoted to the loneliness the overman will feel due to his solitude from society. My question is this, for anybody who may have studied Nietzsche: did he just change his mind, or am I way off base? I know this is a crappy place to ask, but I'm studying, my test is in about ten hours, and I didn't think of this until now. And don't link me to Sparknotes or whatever; I've checked all those places and none of them really answer this question.

10-25-2002, 01:36 AM	#2
theonemofo Posts: n/a	my balls are exceptionally large.

10-25-2002, 01:44 AM	#3
theonemofo Posts: n/a	my balls can't be overtaken, they're perfect. Balls even. just ask plato.

10-25-2002, 01:50 AM	#4
theonemofo Posts: n/a	you can take a nice close look at them when they're resting on your chin!

10-25-2002, 01:55 AM	#5
Samsa Banned Location: A theater near you Posts: 7,929	check everything2.com, numbnuts

10-25-2002, 02:28 AM	#8
Samsa Banned Location: A theater near you Posts: 7,929	2: Nietzsche was a white supremacist, believing that Jews were lesser creatures. Most of the "evidence" cited for this criticism comes from a misinterpretation of "blonde beast" (a term used most notably in Toward a Genealogy of Morals), though it also has something to do with the purely coincidental relationship between Nietzsche's writings and Adolf Hitler. It's patently false that Nietzsche was anti-Semitic. He was very anti-Christian, and knew full well that Yehoshuah ben Yoseph was Jewish and so on, but that had nothing to do with his criticisms of Christianity (as it would for many white supremacists of his and later days). In fact, several times throughout his writings Nietzsche praises the conquering spirit of the ancient Hebrews as well as the strong national character of the diasporatic Jews of his day. He didn't agree with them on many metaphysical and ethical points, believing that the morality of the Bible was inappropriate for a healthy, developing society; but by no stretch of the imagination was he actually anti-Semitic. In regards to the "blonde beast" (or in German, "blondes Biest"): – "blonde" does not refer to the fair features of the Aryan race, although for Nietzsche the Aryans were an example of a noble people with a strong culture. "Blonde" is supposed to be a reference to lions, symbolic of the spirit of a healthy society. In Toward a Genealogy of Morals Nietzsche lists some other races he counts as "blonde beasts;" the list *******s the Japanese and the Arabs, a semitic race. Furthermore, Nietzsche sure as heck did not believe that the modern descendents of the Aryans were anything to write home about; they were a weak, decadent, historically myopic people who couldn't conquer their way out of a paper bag. After all, the Aryan races had produced more than their fair share of décadents: Buddha, Plato, Schopenhauer.... Elizabeth Förster-Nietzsche and her husband supported the Nazi party when it was formed. Nietzsche refused to go to his own sister's wedding because she was marrying an anti-Semite.

10-25-2002, 02:30 AM	#9
Samsa Banned Location: A theater near you Posts: 7,929	1: Nietzsche was a misogynist, believing that women were lesser creatures. Sometimes, people pull up a bunch of quotes from Beyond Good and Evil or Also Sprach Zarathustra to prove that Nietzsche hated women. This is simply not so. Nietzsche often used a literary device called sarcasm – perhaps you've heard of it. Women were considered inferior by the vast majority in the Second Reich. To a certain extent, this was thanks to the women themselves. Nietzsche often passed criticism on the women of his day – for many of the same reasons we pass criticism on the women of his day. I really don't think Nietzsche believed you needed a penis to be an Übermensch. Walter Kaufmann suggests that many of Nietzsche's comments about women were "second-hand and third-rate." There is much to support the idea that, even when he was serious about what he was saying about women, it can be attributed to a significant reclusiveness on his part; he didn't have much contact with women, or really anyone for that matter, and if his opinions were ill-informed, they were not ill-intended. On a side-note, Nietzsche proposed to several women, most notably Lou Salomé. At one point in his life, he tried to arrange a platonic ménage à trois with her and friend and rival Paul Ree. As it worked out, though, Salomé ran off to have a slightly-less-than-platonic affair with Ree, leaving Nietzsche in the dust. There is an extant photograph which shows Nietzsche and Ree, on their hands and knees, lashed to a wagon in which sits Salomé, who is holding a whip. Make of all this what you will.