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Old 03-25-2020, 12:38 PM   #1
GreenDogGlynis
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Default Zeitgeist, Oceania, and Monuments

If Billy and to a much lesser extent Jimmy hadn't trashed James, D'arcy, and pretty everybody else including themselves post reunion, do you think Zeitgeist, Oceania, and Monuments would be looked at much more favorably? I was listening to Oceania a little the other day. I was thinking a huge part of what was keeping me from embracing it was Billy's awful interview on Howard Stern at that time. I'm not saying these three albums are Siamese, Pisces, or Mellon Collie, but at least a big hang up for me is the weird and off-putting behavior by the band when those albums came out.

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 12:43 PM   #2
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yeah that's definitely it and not the fact that it BLOWS ASS

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 12:48 PM   #3
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Why you gotta be so rude?

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 12:48 PM   #4
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And crude?

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 12:49 PM   #5
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you bored bro?

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 12:51 PM   #6
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No, just curious to found out if Billy and to a much lesser extent Jimmy hadn't trashed James, D'arcy, and pretty everybody else including themselves post reunion, do you think Zeitgeist, Oceania, and Monuments would be looked at much more favorably? I was listening to Oceania a little the other day. I was thinking a huge part of what was keeping me from embracing it was Billy's awful interview on Howard Stern at that time. I'm not saying these three albums are Siamese, Pisces, or Mellon Collie, but at least a big hang up for me is the weird and off-putting behavior by the band when those albums came out.

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 12:51 PM   #7
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So if you can offer us some insight into if Billy and to a much lesser extent Jimmy hadn't trashed James, D'arcy, and pretty everybody else including themselves post reunion, do you think Zeitgeist, Oceania, and Monuments would be looked at much more favorably? I was listening to Oceania a little the other day. I was thinking a huge part of what was keeping me from embracing it was Billy's awful interview on Howard Stern at that time. I'm not saying these three albums are Siamese, Pisces, or Mellon Collie, but at least a big hang up for me is the weird and off-putting behavior by the band when those albums came out, it would be greatly appreciated.

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 12:52 PM   #8
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Otherwise, if you don't plan on contributing to the topic of if Billy and to a much lesser extent Jimmy hadn't trashed James, D'arcy, and pretty everybody else including themselves post reunion, do you think Zeitgeist, Oceania, and Monuments would be looked at much more favorably? I was listening to Oceania a little the other day. I was thinking a huge part of what was keeping me from embracing it was Billy's awful interview on Howard Stern at that time. I'm not saying these three albums are Siamese, Pisces, or Mellon Collie, but at least a big hang up for me is the weird and off-putting behavior by the band when those albums came out, then you should probably just leave.

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 12:52 PM   #9
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Because we're talking about if Billy and to a much lesser extent Jimmy hadn't trashed James, D'arcy, and pretty everybody else including themselves post reunion, do you think Zeitgeist, Oceania, and Monuments would be looked at much more favorably? I was listening to Oceania a little the other day. I was thinking a huge part of what was keeping me from embracing it was Billy's awful interview on Howard Stern at that time. I'm not saying these three albums are Siamese, Pisces, or Mellon Collie, but at least a big hang up for me is the weird and off-putting behavior by the band when those albums came out. Not Boris. Not my father. And not avocado toast.

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 12:53 PM   #10
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Do you understand Took? Do you get what we're here to discuss? If Billy and to a much lesser extent Jimmy hadn't trashed James, D'arcy, and pretty everybody else including themselves post reunion, do you think Zeitgeist, Oceania, and Monuments would be looked at much more favorably? I was listening to Oceania a little the other day. I was thinking a huge part of what was keeping me from embracing it was Billy's awful interview on Howard Stern at that time. I'm not saying these three albums are Siamese, Pisces, or Mellon Collie, but at least a big hang up for me is the weird and off-putting behavior by the band when those albums came out? Ring any bells?

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 12:54 PM   #11
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damn remind me never to mix adderall and allegra

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 12:54 PM   #12
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Or do I need to repeat it so you can understand better than what I/we want to know is if Billy and to a much lesser extent Jimmy hadn't trashed James, D'arcy, and pretty everybody else including themselves post reunion, do you think Zeitgeist, Oceania, and Monuments would be looked at much more favorably? I was listening to Oceania a little the other day. I was thinking a huge part of what was keeping me from embracing it was Billy's awful interview on Howard Stern at that time. I'm not saying these three albums are Siamese, Pisces, or Mellon Collie, but at least a big hang up for me is the weird and off-putting behavior by the band when those albums came out. GOT IT?!

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 12:56 PM   #13
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damn remind me never to mix adderall and allegra
Have you tried adding honey?

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 01:23 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by GreenDogGlynis View Post
If Billy and to a much lesser extent Jimmy hadn't trashed James, D'arcy, and pretty everybody else including themselves post reunion, do you think Zeitgeist, Oceania, and Monuments would be looked at much more favorably? I was listening to Oceania a little the other day. I was thinking a huge part of what was keeping me from embracing it was Billy's awful interview on Howard Stern at that time. I'm not saying these three albums are Siamese, Pisces, or Mellon Collie, but at least a big hang up for me is the weird and off-putting behavior by the band when those albums came out.

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 01:39 PM   #15
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Whatever, I just asked a simple question. Basically, is Billy's behavior worsening the reputation of the new albums? It really doesn't matter whether you think they suck or not.

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 01:40 PM   #16
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I have no idea but I haven’t enjoyed Billy’s music since Machina II. That’s the last time the music wasn’t boring.

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 01:54 PM   #17
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Whatever, I just asked a simple question. Basically, is Billy's behavior worsening the reputation of the new albums? It really doesn't matter whether you think they suck or not.
Sorry for Took's behavior in this thread. Please know that Ram and the mods are working on a solution. Thank you for your continued patience.

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 02:20 PM   #18
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Basically, is Billy's behavior worsening the reputation of the new albums?
I mean, it's probably impossible to find a music review for one of his post-breakup releases that doesn't open with several paragraphs about what a cantankerous old coot he is, so I think everyone factors that in a bit, yeah

There may also be something in the fact that, after each new release, it seems like a fair number of people here say "This blows, but now I'm thinking [last album] might be better than I remembered"

And yeah, Took, what the fuck, dude

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 02:26 PM   #19
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The thing that prevented me from embracing Zeitgeist was the vocal mix.

The thing that prevented me from embracing Oceania was that it was terrible.

I began to embrace MTAE but then I realised it was a 3 star facsimile of better music with terrible lyrics and vocal mix.

Billy giving douchebag interviews at the same time explained the music rather than influencing my perception of it.

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 02:31 PM   #20
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I like Being Beige & One and All though, sorry. Just wish the vocals were better.

If Billy re-recorded the last decade and a half of music but mixed like SP1 it would solve most of the problems.

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 02:34 PM   #21
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Whatever, I just asked a simple question. Basically, is Billy's behavior worsening the reputation of the new albums? It really doesn't matter whether you think they suck or not.
It certainly doesnít help, champ! It hurts the reputation of all of his albums.

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 02:42 PM   #22
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Took must be stopped

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 02:50 PM   #23
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Yeah? And whose gonna stop me? You, with you paltry 210 posts? Faugh!


Know that I have the combined might of the three god-mods of netphoria to back me up: SPFAN69, Patj238, and RAM27!!!


DEAL WITH IT

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 03:22 PM   #24
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It certainly doesnít help, champ! It hurts the reputation of all of his albums.
I mean, yeah, that's very true. I remember when VH1 did their top 100 songs of the 90s and the Pumpkins did not get one song on the list. There's a bunch of examples like that. Although I've listened to a bunch of Billy interviews from 93-00 and he comes off pretty well most of the time. So I'm not sure what he did back then to piss so many people off. It really wasn't until the reunion that he seemed to lose his mind. Oceania being the peak of the WTF behavior.

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 03:30 PM   #25
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Whatever, I just asked a simple question. Basically, is Billy's behavior worsening the reputation of the new albums? It really doesn't matter whether you think they suck or not.
no, i think the reputation of the albums lies solely in the actual content of them & billy's reputation + attitude just make it all the more enjoyable to shit on them

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 03:30 PM   #26
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but seriously though, have you tried adding honey?

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 04:02 PM   #27
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I donít pay much attention to interviews. I think the average music fan really couldnít give a shit about what Billy Corgan (or anyone else) says in interviews.

Itís all down to the initial reunion/Zeitgeist. Faux reunion done waaay too soon and a half baked, bad sounding album. Itís very hard to come back from that. Teargarden was a decent concept that got the band and project a lot of publicity but, again, was very poorly executed.

By the time Oceania and Monuments came along I think Billy saying dumb shit in interviews was probably a positive as it at least got the band and records mentioned here, there and everywhere..

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 04:07 PM   #28
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but seriously though, have you tried adding honey?
Thank you for bringing up what is unquestionably a far better album than anything Billy's put out post-breakup


 
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Old 03-25-2020, 04:10 PM   #29
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I think there was a lot of shit-talking about him reforming SP without James and D'Arcy when Zeitgeist came out and I recall seeing a few reviews going "The fuck is he thinking" when the album dropped. So I've always felt that while that album has a fair few stinkers and some shite production, the alt version songs save it a fair bit, and it never deserved all the hate it got.

Oceania was more or less seen as him going "Okay, fine, here's me proving that it doesn't matter who SP is aside from me", and for all that I remember it even got some okay reviews.

And with Monuments, that "three-star record" comment really demonstrated once and for all how self-absorbed he was, and it completely failing in every respect had to serve as a huge wake-up call for him. Literally nobody gave a shit when it dropped. It had no impact whatsoever.

The critical reviews were always way kinder to the albums than the fanbase was, usually about what, the 5-7/10 range?

I'd call it 75% based on their content and 25% based on his attitude.

 
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Old 03-25-2020, 04:19 PM   #30
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Thank you for bringing up what is unquestionably a far better album than anything Billy's put out post-breakup

on that token, this song also named "Honey" is about as fine as Mariah herself during this time


 
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