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Old 12-07-2018, 12:09 AM   #61
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Jimmy putting his hand on Matt Sweeney, in not one, but two pictures, disturbs me. You didn't see the Smashing Pumpkins putting their paws all over James Iha. If Matt wanted to allege work place harassment, he'd have exhibits A and B lined up.
Notice how the guys kind of hang their forearms over each other's shoulder, with their hands not making any gropy contact? If Billy had done something more like that, that would have been less of a lawsuit liability.

 
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Old 12-07-2018, 12:14 AM   #62
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yeah you would be an authority on such matters, what with your taking photos of random strangers and their children

FUCK YOU!!!

 
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Old 12-07-2018, 12:25 AM   #63
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FUCK YOU!!!
Lets use our inside voices please

 
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Old 12-07-2018, 12:31 AM   #64
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Maybe if Billy wasn't so insistent on injecting his early 00s brand of Christian Rock into 90% of shit they actually recorded. Band itself had huuuge potential
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Wow, never thought I'd see the day when a Zwan reunion would be touted.

I revisited Zwan recently and man, there's some SHITTY songs on that album. This sounds like something a group of 15 year olds at a Christian band-camp would pen

Yeah the album sucks butt ton fux, huh

At least itís loud at any volume

 
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Old 12-07-2018, 12:33 AM   #65
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matt sweeney rules

endless boogie for life

 
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Old 12-07-2018, 02:24 AM   #66
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Notice how the guys kind of hang their forearms over each other's shoulder, with their hands not making any gropy contact? If Billy had done something more like that, that would have been less of a lawsuit liability.
Notice how Paz is almost on his lap, her hands on billy's legs?

Cut the bullshit.

 
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Old 12-07-2018, 03:00 AM   #67
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Anyone know anything about the sources from the For Your Love tracks such as where or when they were recorded???

 
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Old 12-07-2018, 01:26 PM   #68
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I wish I knew what the hell I did with my For Your Love DVD. Loved that one song they did, I think it was called "God's Gonna Set this World on Fire."

 
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Old 12-07-2018, 01:42 PM   #69
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I can hardly make it through that title much less a full song "blessed" with it

 
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Old 12-07-2018, 01:43 PM   #70
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though I guess by that point he pretty much saw himself as God, so it's really "Belly's gonna set the world..." etc etc

 
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Old 12-07-2018, 05:55 PM   #71
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Put the zwan album on in the car today to see if it sucked as hard as i membered it

Aaaaaaaaaaand yes. It remains like a two star album for me.

The drumming is cool (if a bit showy) throughout but gosh the tracklisting and lyrics and general vibe are so disappointing compared to what came before.

Only tracks i’d Keep:

Settle Down
Endless Summah
Yeah
Jesus/Mary

And i guess i don’t hate honestly anymore, tho couldnt stand it when it came out b/c it was so transparently the bland/cynical attempt to capture pop radio, wholly unrepresentative of the musical group we’d come to know from live performances. Which basically everything else on the album feels like

Used to like desire, but other than the neat interlocking guitar parts, it’s garbage to me now. Bills lyrics and delivery kill it for me

 
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Old 12-07-2018, 06:07 PM   #72
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Tough crowd. I think MSotS is great and for me I can put it with the SP1 material easily.

 
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Old 12-07-2018, 06:08 PM   #73
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Great Zwan soundboard:
https://archive.org/details/zwan2003...-13fm-t01.flac

 
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Old 12-07-2018, 07:23 PM   #74
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Tough crowd. I think MSotS is great and for me I can put it with the SP1 material easily.
this is your funniest post

 
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Old 12-07-2018, 07:49 PM   #75
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Zwan is garbage. Who cares?

 
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:54 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Run To Me View Post
Put the zwan album on in the car today to see if it sucked as hard as i membered it

Aaaaaaaaaaand yes. It remains like a two star album for me.

The drumming is cool (if a bit showy) throughout but gosh the tracklisting and lyrics and general vibe are so disappointing compared to what came before.

Only tracks iíd Keep:

Settle Down
Endless Summah
Yeah
Jesus/Mary

And i guess i donít hate honestly anymore, tho couldnt stand it when it came out b/c it was so transparently the bland/cynical attempt to capture pop radio, wholly unrepresentative of the musical group weíd come to know from live performances. Which basically everything else on the album feels like

Used to like desire, but other than the neat interlocking guitar parts, itís garbage to me now. Bills lyrics and delivery kill it for me
I actually think Honestly is one of the better tracks on the album. It sounds like an upbeat, poppy version of Siamese Dream. Aside from that, the only 2 other tracks I like are Desire and JI/MSOTS. Yeah and Declarations of Faith are okay too, but there's some real brutal shit... I'm surprised you listed Settle Down, that's one of the tracks I find awful.

 
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Old 12-07-2018, 09:10 PM   #77
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Settle Down was one of my faves of the new batch of live stuff they came back with in spring of ‘02 or whenever that was, and the album version kept everything i liked about it, and actually improved on it bit

Fun, punchy bass riff; swirly/snarling guitar lines making use of 3 part attack; weird/fun lyrics; what’s not to like? Personally the sauce gets my earth to quaken, mind to achin, we were maken, etc

 
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Old 12-07-2018, 09:16 PM   #78
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Declarations and Lyric are ok as compositions (other than the cringey pseudo-christian self-help lyrics) but the clipping on them (especially chorus of declarations, right when it gets good) are disqualifying imo

 
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Old 12-07-2018, 09:18 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by houseofglass11 View Post
Tough crowd. I think MSotS is great and for me I can put it with the SP1 material easily.
Don’t get me wrong i fucken love zwan and think it’s the best post-2000 material by a mile

It’s just the album was such a crushing disappointment compared to what they were doing live

Soooooooooo many superior songs/sounds we could have gotten. So sad the general public/average dummie will discover/remember zwan (if at all!) as the one-album wonder responsible for MsOts

 
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Old 12-07-2018, 09:21 PM   #80
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Settle Down is probably my favorite song on Mary Star

 
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Old 12-07-2018, 09:58 PM   #81
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Raise your hand if you thought Zwan could eventually be even doper than Pumpkins

Gosh i was fucken bummed when crybaby bill took his dry peen and went home
I've said before that Zwan could have been Billy's Wings (the Paul McCartney band). I would also argue that Zwan was a superior live band to SP.

The people complaining about the Christian aspect of Zwan are fucking goofs. It represented someone searching for a connection with the world. It was in the spirit of American Spiritualism - Gospel, Jesus Freaks, Ginsberg.

I believe Billy was attempting to move on from venting his angry child in SP, and from the codependency of Yelena/Courtney. He was attempting to share the workload with other talented musicians. He was like someone in a recovery program trying to turn their life around after finding a higher power.

 
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Old 12-07-2018, 10:01 PM   #82
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BIG ZWAN OPINIONS OVER HERE.

 
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Old 12-07-2018, 10:20 PM   #83
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I've said before that Zwan could have been Billy's Wings (the Paul McCartney band). I would also argue that Zwan was a superior live band to SP.

The people complaining about the Christian aspect of Zwan are fucking goofs. It represented someone searching for a connection with the world. It was in the spirit of American Spiritualism - Gospel, Jesus Freaks, Ginsberg.

I believe Billy was attempting to move on from venting his angry child in SP, and from the codependency of Yelena/Courtney. He was attempting to share the workload with other talented musicians. He was like someone in a recovery program trying to turn their life around after finding a higher power.
Good point, maybe im a little too hard on the lyrics

Itís just i come from a family of christian fundamentalists and my childhood and young adult life were stolen from me by them. Rock music, when i found it and found the bravery to embrace it despite my fears and my familyís disapproval, was instrumental in breaking free and becoming an individual with a future

Probably as a direct result of this background, anything approaching Christian rock makes me wanna hurl

 
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Old 12-08-2018, 12:05 AM   #84
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Good point, maybe im a little too hard on the lyrics

Itís just i come from a family of christian fundamentalists and my childhood and young adult life were stolen from me by them. Rock music, when i found it and found the bravery to embrace it despite my fears and my familyís disapproval, was instrumental in breaking free and becoming an individual with a future

Probably as a direct result of this background, anything approaching Christian rock makes me wanna hurl
we are literally the same person.

hello, fellow ex-fundie!

 
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Old 12-08-2018, 12:10 AM   #85
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Interesting take. I can see why religious Billy wouldn't appeal to you guys, although his faith is definitely in the New Age category.

 
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Old 12-08-2018, 12:13 AM   #86
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i feel like spirituality or religion in music would be better if the lyrics were less corny and more cryptic or said something besides generalities

 
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Old 12-08-2018, 01:35 AM   #87
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Sweeney is the man. Had a couple conversations with him here just seeing him in bars around the lower east side. Really nice dude. Always been a fan of Chavez since the mid 90s.

 
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Old 12-11-2018, 12:35 PM   #88
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I never really got a "Christian rock" vibe from Zwan. I've never been completely clear on why Billy got all into hymnal music at that point in his life or why some of the songs referencing faith and spirituality, but I always interpreted it as Billy viewing Zwan as a rebirth after feeling like the Pumpkins collapsed under the weight of their own ambitions. Of course, it all feels like a ruse now, since Zwan fell apart as quickly as it started and Billy became mortal enemies with Pajo and Sweeney.

 
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Old 12-11-2018, 07:16 PM   #89
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I remember the crushing disappointment when listening to the album after the excitement over some of the early recordings. It's still hard to believe it's the same group.

 
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Old 12-11-2018, 08:01 PM   #90
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He was clearly going through some sort of midlife crisis and depression at that point. So I guess the spiritual stuff was his way of coping. I seem to recall an interview where he talked about sitting on a bench in the rain outside a church in Florida called Mary Star of the Sea and how he prayed for help. That’s where the album title came from.

Sad reax only.

 
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