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Old 03-01-2018, 10:24 PM   #1111
houseofglass11
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Slow Dawn- great 10/10
Vanity - good 8/10
Saturnine - crap
Glass' Theme (spacey version) - crap
Soul Power [James Brown] - eh it's alright
Cash Car Star "Version 1" - yeh, good rocker
Lucky 13 - jams
Speed Kills - "Speed Kills But Beauty Lives Forever" - B-side version is much better
If There Is a God (piano/vox) - Ok
Try, Try, Try (alt. music/lyrics) - Machina I version is better
Heavy Metal Machine (version I alt. mix) - terrible, M1 version is better
Glass' Theme - "Glass" - still terrible
Cash Car Star - once was enough
Dross - jams
Real Love - good
Go - good
Let Me Give the World to You - nice
Innosence - great
Home - great
Blue Skies Bring Tears (heavy) - "Blue Skies / Version Electronique" - M1 version is better
White Spyder - terrible
In My Body - great
If There Is a God (full band) - good
Le Deux Machina (synth) - pointless
Here's to the Atom Bomb - "Atom Bomb" - Judas O version is better.

So yeah, about 11 or 12 songs that are good. Definitely didn't need to be a double album.

 
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Old 03-02-2018, 03:39 AM   #1112
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You know that MII tracklist is only 14 songs, right? Just to make it clear:

Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofglass11 View Post
Glass' Theme - "Glass" - still terrible
Cash Car Star - once was enough
Dross - jams
Real Love - good
Go - good
Let Me Give the World to You - nice
Innosence - great
Home - great
Blue Skies Bring Tears (heavy) - "Blue Skies / Version Electronique" - M1 version is better
White Spyder - terrible
In My Body - great
If There Is a God (full band) - good
Le Deux Machina (synth) - pointless
Here's to the Atom Bomb - "Atom Bomb" - Judas O version is better.

So yeah, about 11 or 12 songs that are good. Definitely didn't need to be a double album.

 
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Old 03-02-2018, 02:24 PM   #1113
houseofglass11
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Yeah but pretty sure everyone and their grandmother considers the EP tracks part of it too. Everyone knows the album really starts with Slow Dawn.

 
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Old 03-02-2018, 02:30 PM   #1114
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False statement. My grandmother, God rest her soul, did not know that.

 
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Old 03-02-2018, 02:33 PM   #1115
houseofglass11
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That's unfortunate, sorry for your loss and her loss for not knowing that.

 
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Old 03-02-2018, 02:53 PM   #1116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofglass11 View Post
Yeah but pretty sure everyone and their grandmother considers the EP tracks part of it too. Everyone knows the album really starts with Slow Dawn.
the only people iv'e seen not consider them are the young fans.

 
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Old 03-02-2018, 03:02 PM   #1117
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what like 17 year old from bangalore?

 
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Old 03-02-2018, 03:09 PM   #1118
Forgotten Child
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slunken View Post
the only people iv'e seen not consider them are the young fans.
Also called UNTRUE FANS

 
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Old 03-02-2018, 03:29 PM   #1119
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go off

 
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Old 03-02-2018, 03:30 PM   #1120
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forgotten child puts young fans on BLAST

 
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Old 03-02-2018, 03:31 PM   #1121
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nice tattoo. that's right i said it. nirvana isn't your favorite band.

 
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Old 03-02-2018, 03:36 PM   #1122
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if you don't make auggie jup xmas ornaments ur a fkn untr00 fan

 
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Old 03-02-2018, 03:41 PM   #1123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofglass11 View Post
Yeah but pretty sure everyone and their grandmother considers the EP tracks part of it too. Everyone knows the album really starts with Slow Dawn.
Wrong. Slow Dawn is when Glass emerges from the warehouse and realizes God was with him all along.

Untr00 fan alert.

 
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Old 03-02-2018, 03:52 PM   #1124
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lol

 
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Old 03-02-2018, 04:39 PM   #1125
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Hell, I tried

 
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Old 03-02-2018, 05:34 PM   #1126
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I remember the night Machina 2 leaked I was up late downloading it and when Slow Dawn came on I was convinced the song was about slam dunks. Like “I’m gonna ruuuun / and slam dunk” “just a slam dunk away...” etc and was like “weird but I’m into this”

 
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Old 03-04-2018, 03:39 AM   #1127
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Originally Posted by themadcaplaughs View Post
You clearly have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Billy took longer than initially expected, but he did get the reissues out on a semi-regular basis. Didn't he start working on some of the early work before the Adore reissue came out?

I'm sure it was some kind of rights/label issue, and I'm sure they have no desire to release this album. They probably didn't want to release anything after Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness. At the very least, The Aeroplane Flies High came out of MCIS sessions and Adore had the promotional angle of being an "underrated" album. Machina was pretty much reviled the few months after it came out, and then quickly forgotten. Other than people who know "The Everlasting Gaze" and "Stand Inside Your Love" from the greatest hits album, I'm sure a lot of casual fans do not even know the album (or Machina II) exists. In these type of "reunion" tours, the label usually just wants a new song or two to track onto some reissue of an old greatest hits album or a new greatest hits album; something that does not cost a lot of money. It even looks like that's exactly how it will go. The band will get to drop a new single "produced" by Rick Rubin (meaning he might have jotted some notes down on a napkin after hearing a demo or slept on the couch in the studio while the band recorded) that dated from 2014/2015 and has James Iha playing a sustained note over certain parts of the song.
It's down to relationships between Corgan and the label, plus the planning of the whole thing. I had a horrible feeling this would run out of steam before getting to the one release I gave 2 shits about. I was surprised they re-released PI, but more so with Aeroplane. There was no reason to put that out again. They could have added the worthwhile content to MCIS and deleted the 10 different takes of Ruby etc. Doing this would have compressed the project and got Machina out before the bean counters at the label killed the whole thing off.

As regards the commercial viability of a Machina re-release, other bands (e.g. Rush) have managed to get reissues of their later albums that sold less than Machina.

The whole thing was mishandled and bloated.

 
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Old 03-04-2018, 03:42 AM   #1128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soniclovenoize View Post
bla bla bla OK how about this one chaps?

Disc 1:
1. Glass Theme
2. Cash Car Star
3. Imploding Voice
4. Wound
5. Sacred + Profane
6. Stand Inside Your Love
7. Real Love
8. Raindrops + Sunshowers
9. Glass + The Ghost Children
10. This Time

Disc 2:
1. Everlasting Gaze
2. Try Try Try
3. Heavy Metal Machine
4. White Spyder
5. Speed Kills
6. I of the Mourning
7. Blue Skies Bring tears
8. Age of Innocence
9. Home
10. With Every Light

There you go. Two 45-minute discs, ten songs each, in story/concept order. Just enough songs to communicate the story without bogging it down with bloated boring filler that drags the album (In My Body, etc).
Boring filler? You do realize that HMM pretty much torpedoes Machina halfway through?

 
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Old 03-04-2018, 04:08 AM   #1129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofglass11 View Post
Slow Dawn- great 10/10
Vanity - good 8/10
Saturnine - crap
Glass' Theme (spacey version) - crap
Soul Power [James Brown] - eh it's alright
Cash Car Star "Version 1" - yeh, good rocker
Lucky 13 - jams
Speed Kills - "Speed Kills But Beauty Lives Forever" - B-side version is much better
If There Is a God (piano/vox) - Ok
Try, Try, Try (alt. music/lyrics) - Machina I version is better
Heavy Metal Machine (version I alt. mix) - terrible, M1 version is better
Glass' Theme - "Glass" - still terrible
Cash Car Star - once was enough
Dross - jams
Real Love - good
Go - good
Let Me Give the World to You - nice
Innosence - great
Home - great
Blue Skies Bring Tears (heavy) - "Blue Skies / Version Electronique" - M1 version is better
White Spyder - terrible
In My Body - great
If There Is a God (full band) - good
Le Deux Machina (synth) - pointless
Here's to the Atom Bomb - "Atom Bomb" - Judas O version is better.

So yeah, about 11 or 12 songs that are good. Definitely didn't need to be a double album.
Not sure you proved your point. Most of the songs you discount are alternate takes. The original songs you actually rate - 12 in fact, an album's worth of material. I can't agree with you on Speed Kills, the B-side release loses all the energy and slathers the whole thing in shite - bit like the long-heralded Rubin version of LMGtWtY. The MII version is far more like the excellent live version displayed on Arising! tour. Ditto Blue Skies. White Spyder, I get why some wouldn't like it, personally I think it's excellent. Atom Bomb - never sure which I prefer tbh.

 
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Old 03-04-2018, 08:24 AM   #1130
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Originally Posted by RenewRevive View Post
Boring filler? You do realize that HMM pretty much torpedoes Machina halfway through?
Nope.

 
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Old 03-04-2018, 08:27 AM   #1131
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heavy metal machine > cash car star

 
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Old 03-04-2018, 08:37 AM   #1132
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billy should just leak this and get gone with it.

 
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Old 03-04-2018, 08:55 AM   #1133
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Hmm blows. Cash car is only slightly better. However VANITY, slow Dawn, speed kills. .. And a few others. ... could've really turned M1 around in a big way. Dude needs an editor and a checker (darcy or whoever)

 
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Old 03-04-2018, 08:56 AM   #1134
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Hmm wouldn’t be so bad if it weren’t for the verses; chorus and stuff is pretty fine: that sparkle synth over multi-grit vistas is 1 of my fave studio tricks from the era

Verses, however = taking a slow awful bath in plain/cold oatmeal while an irritating robot child shrieks “na na na” in your mouth

 
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Old 03-04-2018, 09:38 AM   #1135
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Got bored and put together a theoretical tracklist using only songs listed in order from the Machina chart:

1. Glass' Theme
2. Cash Car Star
3. Imploding Voice
4. Stand Inside Your Love
5. Wound
6. Crying Tree of Mercury
7. Real Love
8. Sacred and Profane
9. Raindrops + Sunshowers
10. Heavy Metal Machine
11. Glass and the Ghost Children
12. Speed Kills
13. Everlasting Gaze
14. I of the Mourning
15. Blue Skies Bring Tears
16. Home
17. With Every Light

1-2: OPENING WORLDVIEW/EPIPHANY
3: ALIGNMENT WITH GOD
4-5: LOVE/GIRL
6-8: CROSSROADS
9-10: LOSS OF BALANCE
11-12: DESCENT
13-15: ALONE (NEG)
16: ALONE (POS)
17: PEACE

Aside from this, every time I revisit the subject matter I'm reminded that the main problem with "the story" is that it has such a weak beginning and ending. The bulk of the songs are basically the guts of the story and both the intro and outro seem tacked on.

 
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Old 03-04-2018, 10:17 AM   #1136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slunken View Post
Got bored and put together a theoretical tracklist using only songs listed in order from the Machina chart:

1. Glass' Theme
2. Cash Car Star
3. Imploding Voice
4. Stand Inside Your Love
5. Wound
6. Crying Tree of Mercury
7. Real Love
8. Sacred and Profane
9. Raindrops + Sunshowers
10. Heavy Metal Machine
11. Glass and the Ghost Children
12. Speed Kills
13. Everlasting Gaze
14. I of the Mourning
15. Blue Skies Bring Tears
16. Home
17. With Every Light

1-2: OPENING WORLDVIEW/EPIPHANY
3: ALIGNMENT WITH GOD
4-5: LOVE/GIRL
6-8: CROSSROADS
9-10: LOSS OF BALANCE
11-12: DESCENT
13-15: ALONE (NEG)
16: ALONE (POS)
17: PEACE

Aside from this, every time I revisit the subject matter I'm reminded that the main problem with "the story" is that it has such a weak beginning and ending. The bulk of the songs are basically the guts of the story and both the intro and outro seem tacked on.
Yeah this is alright. I'd just revise it as:

1. Glass Theme
2. Cash Car Star
3. Imploding Voice
4. Wound
5. Sacred + Profane
6. Stand Inside Your Love
7. Real Love
8. Raindrops + Sunshowers
9. Glass + Ghost Children
10. Crying Tree
11. Everlasting Gaze
12. Heavy Metal Machine
13. Speed Kills
14. Blue Skies Bring Tears
15. I Of The Mourning
16. Home
17. With Every Light

 
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Old 03-04-2018, 10:46 AM   #1137
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tbh i won't even listen to the one i made

 
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Old 03-04-2018, 11:25 AM   #1138
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lol

 
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Old 03-04-2018, 12:31 PM   #1139
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Heavy Metal Machine is really, really bad. Take a tired riff and span it out over 7 minutes.

Everything on both Machinas is too long though

 
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Old 03-04-2018, 12:41 PM   #1140
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even in my body?

 
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