Fuzzyroes VS. FoolofaTook: CHOOSE YOUR FACTION

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

dino jr has so many albums that some are pretty soft though. not shoegaze noise soft but not hard rock like head bang-y

One of my all time favorite DJ tracks

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

Mascis really is a fantastic guitarist. I haven't seen him live though. Billy definitely excels in mixing and layering, etc. At least he did during the good albums. Dino Jr has more good albums, too, imo. But the good Pumpkins albums are better than the good Dino Jr albums.

Oh man, you should definitely change that. Guy absolutely rips it live... You might leave with your ears ringing for a few hours though lol.

It is hard to compare though. I threw on the Gish CD in my bedroom as I was reading a book yesterday. It had to have been the first time I listened to it in some time, and I forgot how epic some of that shit is. It's hard to fathom that the guy who put out Oh-Jee-La-La is the same guy who penned Bury Me... And that has nothing to do with the stylistic differences, but just the quality in the writing.

Billy Corgan really should have retired after Adore... It's a shame how much he's tarnished his legacy with so much complete and utter crap.

[ilikeplanets]

Today 05:56 PM
Elphenor
I dont understand the Dino Jr. "indie cred" when they play music that's shoegaze integrated into arena rock just like pumpkins

Today 06:02 PM
Elphenor

lots of fuzz

lots of pedals

Today 06:10 PM
Elphenor

it's just too hard rock for me

Today 06:20 PM
Elphenor

you established that they are indeed not a shoegaze band

I didn't argue that they were




my my, you just want it all the ways, don't you??

[fuzzyroes]

Lol, Elph impresses me with his music knowledge... But Dinosar Jr shoegaze?!

They're not even in the slightest.

[ilikeplanets]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

Oh man, you should definitely change that. Guy absolutely rips it live... You might leave with your ears ringing for a few hours though lol.

It is hard to compare though. I threw on the Gish CD in my bedroom as I was reading a book yesterday. It had to have been the first time I listened to it in some time, and I forgot how epic some of that shit is. It's hard to fathom that the guy who put out Oh-Jee-La-La is the same guy who penned Bury Me... And that has nothing to do with the stylistic differences, but just the quality in the writing.

Billy Corgan really should have retired after Adore... It's a shame how much he's tarnished his legacy with complete and utter crap.

I'd love to see them play but as I've bemoaned before they tend to only play at big festivals which I'm not paying for to see one band I like. And I agree with you about Gish and esp. Bury Me.....only thing I disagree with is that he should have retired after Machina and not released Adore, except for For Martha as a solo track.

[fuzzyroes]

Machina is okay and all, But the downward spiral is clear at that point. It was in full affect on Adore too, but Machina really helped stop any debate as to the decline in material. I know a bunch of us like Machina, but there's really no classic level material on it. Even the "good" songs are quite a fall off from the energy and quality that we were used to .

[ilikeplanets]

that is true, i just like its vibe on the soft tracks. the "rock" tracks are grating af, save for dross

[ilikeplanets]

I can't pick a single favorite Dino Jr track but I Don't Think on Hand It Over never disappoints me, especially then leading into Never Bought It. Amazing flow. <3

[qwerty sp]

J Mascis is the laid back wizard of indie!

WIZARD I tells ya!

[ilikeplanets]

that mv of him continuously falling down on skateboards is pretty sad/funny tbh

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

yeah, I didn't think of it that way. If you consider their entire career Mascis wins hands down.

I see what you are saying but J Mascis has never and will never write songs at the level of Tonight, Tonight or Mayonaise or Hummer. He does not have the ability.

Originally Posted by Elphenor

I dont understand the Dino Jr. "indie cred" when they play music that's shoegaze integrated into arena rock just like pumpkins

arena rock and shoegaze? really?

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

Bullshit... Complete and utter bullshit.

The last time Billy could compare to Mascis on the axe was during Gish and a bit on Siamese Dream... You know, during the days when Billy still had a passion. Churning out passionate guitar work takes soul, and Corgan hasn't displayed that he's "still got it" in ages. The fact that Billy can simply replicate his old parts in a live setting doesn't mean that he's still a good guitar player.... But really, any opinion is nothing but hearsay, the proof is in the released work... And Billys guitar skills have dried up longgggggggggggg ago.

1. you don't know what hearsay means
2. you are wrong. You may prefer Mascis, but as a guitarist yourself, you should be able to listen to the complexity and variance of what Mascis does in a solo vs. what Bill does in a solo, and even on a bad day, Bill is a far superior player. J Mascis plays a great guitar and I'm not knocking him for it, but all he does is major and pentatonic scales. He can bring serious intensity which is awesome, but from a technical standpoint, Billy Corgan is a much superior musician. It's not even close. And lead guitar aside, Billy also plays a variety of different styles whereas all Dino Jr. songs are essentially cut from the same cloth and dyed different colors.

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

You're certainly right! They are definitely one of the innovators of grunge... Probably more so than The Pixies in a lot of ways.... I don't think you'd ever have a Pearl Jam without a Dinosaur Jr... For better or worse.

they weren't a big influence on any of the grunge bands afaik. they also weren't the first band to play country style music with old man type vocals and crazy guitar solos. they borrowed a lot from neil young which I think is what you are describing

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

Mascis really is a fantastic guitarist. I haven't seen him live though. Billy definitely excels in mixing and layering, etc. At least he did during the good albums. Dino Jr has more good albums, too, imo. But the good Pumpkins albums are better than the good Dino Jr albums.

right, exactly. There is no Dino Jr album that comes within 100 miles of the kind of artistic achievement of Siamese Dream.

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

I'd love to see them play but as I've bemoaned before they tend to only play at big festivals which I'm not paying for to see one band I like.

They always come to Black Cat in DC. I assumed they were mostly a dingy club band still. The volume is really over the top though. If you see them, wear earplugs, seriously.

[ilikeplanets]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

cut from the same cloth and dyed different colors.

loving this metaphor

[LaBelle]

This conversation becomes a really nutty read when you don't know Dinosaur Jr.

[Elphenor]

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

Today 05:56 PM
Elphenor
I dont understand the Dino Jr. "indie cred" when they play music that's shoegaze integrated into arena rock just like pumpkins

Today 06:02 PM
Elphenor

lots of fuzz

lots of pedals

Today 06:10 PM
Elphenor

it's just too hard rock for me

Today 06:20 PM
Elphenor

you established that they are indeed not a shoegaze band

I didn't argue that they were




my my, you just want it all the ways, don't you??

I called them an arena rock band

tis what this blanket term "alternative rock" comes down to mean

in the same way SD is a hard rock album with shoegaze

this is actually not a controversial opinion at all, you'll even find some will list Bug as shoegaze itself, I don't agree with that opinion, but it's not that far off

[yo soy el mejor]

reading y'all talk about music is lol

[Elphenor]

anyway Galaxie 500 is betterz

with even worse vocals (more indie?)

*adjusts glasses*

[ilikeplanets]

the funniest thing evar is when people just HAVE to butt into a conversation that was complete without them. HAHAHA I'm lol'ing down the river

[redbreegull]

I cannot hear any shoegaze in Dino Jr at all. It's just hard rock with a lot of fuzz. The only commonality I see here is that they don't move onstage.

[yo soy el mejor]

just the words dinosaur jr remind me of bonsoir but i've never heard dinosaur jr.

just like two gallants or whatev reminds me of jesse, but i ain't never heard them either

[TuralyonW3]

this is the business

[ilikeplanets]

that's a great one

[Elphenor]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

I cannot hear any shoegaze in Dino Jr at all. It's just hard rock with a lot of fuzz. The only commonality I see here is that they don't move onstage.

[Elphenor]

anyway

[ilikeplanets]

how is Freak Scene even shoegaze?

[ilikeplanets]

genres don't matter anyway, i've decided. after the long argument about them. what's good is good.

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

2. you are wrong. You may prefer Mascis, but as a guitarist yourself, you should be able to listen to the complexity and variance of what Mascis does in a solo vs. what Bill does in a solo, and even on a bad day, Bill is a far superior player. J Mascis plays a great guitar and I'm not knocking him for it, but all he does is major and pentatonic scales. He can bring serious intensity which is awesome, but from a technical standpoint, Billy Corgan is a much superior musician. It's not even close. And lead guitar aside, Billy also plays a variety of different styles whereas all Dino Jr. songs are essentially cut from the same cloth and dyed different colors.



they weren't a big influence on any of the grunge bands afaik. they also weren't the first band to play country style music with old man type vocals and crazy guitar solos. they borrowed a lot from neil young which I think is what you are describing

Dude, it's been 25 years since Corgans recorded any new guitar work that was emotive, blistering or even fundamentally complex. I know there's this attitude around the fan-base of "Billy Corgan just chooses to suck, he could be good again if he wants"... The truth is it takes passion to rip it on the guitar like Mascis and Corgan on Gish and SD... Corgan lost the passion long ago... For 25 years there's only been brief little glimpses here and there of good guitar ability...

Yeah, yeah yeah, I know what you're gonna say.... HE COULD STILL RIP IT ON THE AXE IF HE WANTED TO!!!... Just like "HE COULD STILL SING EMOTIONALLY IF HE WANTED TO"... If I was to listen to someone in this fan-base I'd have to come to the conclusion that Corgan decidedly ditched everything that made him special in favor of sucking... I mean give me a fucking break.

As for the grunge thing, you're right Neil Young is definitely the grandfather of the genre, but Dinosaur Jr pasted it all together and then influenced countless bands... Hell, Eddie Vedar came up with his vocal style in a large part from Mascis.

[fuzzyroes]

Just think of it... What awesome guitar work has Corgan recorded in the last 25 years? There's not a whole lot there.... I hear people bring up that Jimmy Page cockery on Song For A Son.... No fucking way that shit's better than Mascis.

[fuzzyroes]

I have no idea why Corgan lost his ability to create awesome new guitar work or to sing emotively... I'd reckon it's because he got rich and started living like an entitled yuppie... That's certainly enough to take away the drive of someone who was likely only in it for the fortune in the first place.

[fuzzyroes]

I'm gonna rock this



You can go rock some "The Smashing Pumpkins-Run 2 Me" RBG

[buzzard]

Quadruple post with two rolling laughter emoticons, eh.

Looks like you've really wound this guy up, redbreegull.